192
   

monitoring Trump and relevant contemporary events

 
 
MontereyJack
 
  3  
Sat 17 Jun, 2017 07:10 pm
@layman,
No. I.m not and you are definitely nott my type.
layman
 
  -1  
Sat 17 Jun, 2017 07:13 pm
@MontereyJack,
MontereyJack wrote:

No. I.m not and you are definitely nott my type.


Well, that's in your best interest, then. I have my own tried and true way of warding off homosexual advances, ya know?

Back when I was a schoolboy, some homosexual sexually assaulted me. The homo sitting in the desk behind me reached around and grabbed my crotch, eh?

What happened next wasn't nuthin nice. But it worked out pretty good for me in the long run. Every time some cop came up to me at the pool hall, or the swimmin hole, or wherever and asked: "Layboy, aint you supposed to be in school right now?" I always just said:

"Naw, I aint. They done told me not to never come back. Go ax em, if ya want, and just leave me be, eh, pig'.
MontereyJack
 
  4  
Sat 17 Jun, 2017 07:28 pm
@giujohn,
Well youre beinng aright asshole. Gooey. Did or did not finn survive?
If he didnt, youget the crass bad taste award of the week,
MontereyJack
 
  3  
Sat 17 Jun, 2017 07:32 pm
@layman,
Not a gay sdvance. Yourpost read like acomeon.

. You better lwork on your technque.
9
layman
 
  -1  
Sat 17 Jun, 2017 07:44 pm
@MontereyJack,
MontereyJack wrote:

Not a gay sdvance. Yourpost read like acomeon.

. You better lwork on your technque.
9

. It dont look like it's my "technque" that needs lwork, there, eh?

9
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  -3  
Sat 17 Jun, 2017 08:00 pm
@oralloy,
Some of Sorcha Faal's articles make more sense than others and this one makes perfect sense. About once every two pr three decades or so you might get a 97 - 3 vote in the US senate because some proposition is so obviously right and beautiful that nobody can deny it but that clearly is not what is going on here. The other way you'd get a 97 - 3 vote is via bribery and intimidation...
0 Replies
 
MontereyJack
 
  4  
Sat 17 Jun, 2017 08:00 pm
@layman,
Considering the number of a2k people who have kivked off issuin a fake surgery notice ils in exte it out iymlely poor taste and it is hard to read
d "IM
GOING IN FOR open heart surgery tomorrow"asa joke.
So is finn in the hospital or not. If itsallajoke,get stuffed. If its real, heal, finn
layman
 
  -1  
Sat 17 Jun, 2017 08:07 pm
@MontereyJack,
MontereyJack wrote:

it is hard to read "IM GOING IN FOR open heart surgery tomorrow"asa joke.


Try reading a whole sentence for once in your life, eh, Jack? After that, try reading in context.

I know that's probably impossible for you, but at least try it, eh?
layman
 
  -2  
Sat 17 Jun, 2017 08:13 pm
There are a lot of people who might technically be called "literate," because they can read (at least some) words.

But they never actually understand what those words are conveying, so I call them illiterate, ya know?
0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  -1  
Sat 17 Jun, 2017 08:18 pm
I hate them dammed Trump commercials.

layman
 
  -2  
Sat 17 Jun, 2017 08:23 pm
@reasoning logic,
Well, at least it's completely honest, eh, RL?
0 Replies
 
MontereyJack
 
  5  
Sat 17 Jun, 2017 08:31 pm
@layman,
that was the ehole sentence. There was. no joking context.

If that was a joke it was apretty pisspoor one, truly worthy of you and your fauxhick sc.htick.6


oralloy
 
  -1  
Sat 17 Jun, 2017 08:54 pm
@MontereyJack,
MontereyJack wrote:
You still do not get it, if trump does any of that he will immediately be in a new firestorm for obstruction of justice which he will lose.

Wrong. If the Democrats throw tantrums over imaginary claims of obstruction of justice, that will be no threat to Trump.


MontereyJack wrote:
And impeachable offenses are what the House says they are

You can fantasize about impeachment without crimes all you want, but here in the real world there will be no impeachment without both of two things:

a) serious evidence of serious crimes, and

b) a convincing argument why anyone should care after Democrats allowed Bill Clinton to get away with perjury, witness tampering, and obstruction of justice.

You have neither of those two things.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -1  
Sat 17 Jun, 2017 08:56 pm
@MontereyJack,
MontereyJack wrote:
I do know what o of j is it is not clear you do.

He is using the term correctly. You are using the term to refer to acts that are not in any way obstruction.

If you know what the term means, why are you misusing it?


MontereyJack wrote:
And i kinda hope he does fire muellef because as commentators have said, it would be political suix8de

It wouldn't be suicide. He would be fine. But the Democrats would keep tantruming for the appointment of a new chief witchhunter.

Pardons would be much more effective because there would be no way to ever revoke them no matter what tantrums the Democrats threw.
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  -1  
Sat 17 Jun, 2017 08:59 pm
@MontereyJack,
MontereyJack wrote:

There was. no joking context.


Heh, yeah, right, eh?

Finn dAbuzz wrote:
...it never occurred to me, for even a moment, that anyone would read my comment as anything other than the jest it was intended to be.


Nothing is ever a joke to someone who aint got no sense of humor, eh?
oralloy
 
  -3  
Sat 17 Jun, 2017 09:08 pm
@MontereyJack,
MontereyJack wrote:
Well youre beinng aright asshole. Gooey. Did or did not finn survive?
If he didnt, youget the crass bad taste award of the week,

Good grief. You guys..... <shakes head>

Blatham made a silly post announcing a meeting of all the posters so that we could complement him on his leadership. Probably some sort of satire of a meeting that Trump is supposed to have had recently.

Finn's comment about rescheduling heart surgery so he could make the meeting was a sarcastic response to Blatham's silly post.
layman
 
  -1  
Sat 17 Jun, 2017 09:10 pm
@oralloy,
With any normal person that might be helpful, but it looks like these cheese-eaters will NEVER get it, eh?

It just aint in em.
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  -1  
Sat 17 Jun, 2017 09:17 pm
@reasoning logic,
The BABE in that commercial looks like Trump's daughter, eh?

Wait, I see what happened now. It IS her, just with a black wig on.

It HAS to be. Who else would make such a flattering commercial about Trump, I ask ya?
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  0  
Sat 17 Jun, 2017 11:23 pm
@revelette1,
revelette1 wrote:

I gotta say, those Caesar protesters need to get a grip. Watch the show and see what it is about. I haven't seen it, but according to those putting on the play, it about how far people go in politics and how they fall.

Quote:
Shakespeare actors and scholars told CBS News earlier this week that the protests fundamentally misunderstood the lesson of the play.

"The play doesn't condone violence," Shakespeare actor Joe Wegner told CBS News. "It actually is a story about what happens when an act like that is committed. And you watch these characters realize that. And then, in the end, everything falls."


CBS News


What is next, burning books because they suggest something somebody don't like?


I'm happy to discuss the production on it's artistic merits alone, and ignore the political controversy surrounding it. Unfortunately, I haven't seen the play, but based on what I have read about it (including reviews by critics who admired it and those who panned it), I think the following comments can be fairly made.

Whatever Shakespeare intended the lesson to be, we can be fairly certain that the members of the audience who shave stood and cheered when Trump/Caesar is assassinated, haven't been cheering the bard or his lesson.

Joe Wegner should be reminded that if a director stages a production that can so easily lose the lesson of the playwright, in the (supposedly) unintended offense or glee taken from a pivotal scene, then he's done the work and the playwright a disservice.

The lesson of the play, as Wegner defines it, is not enhanced by the ham-fisted portrayal of the title character as Donald Trump, and certainly not when that portrayal is of a buffoon. The Julius Caesar of Shakespeare's play is by no means a buffoon and an important element of the play's lesson is lost if the charismatic, noble and once very republican Roman patriot, who allowed himself to succumb to the allure of absolute power, is depicted as a clueless, shallow clown. It certainly renders the soliloquy and character of Marc Antony confused if his beloved Caesar was such an obviously crude churl.

Perhaps Oskar Eustis, the director, intended to convey a lesson of his own, and not one evident in the original play and all of the hundreds if not thousands of stagings that have conformed with the common understanding of Julius Caesar as both history and Shakespeare have written him. It wouldn't be the first time a director decided to favor his own spin over the bard's, and alone is not subject to dismissal or criticism, however when a director takes this approach; this risk, he or she should be held to a higher standard of artistic merit than those following a more traditional and noncontroversial path, and should be expected to pull it off by finding very solid support for his or her interpretation within the words and characters of the author, not by significantly rewriting either.

A director might decide that the themes of "Othello" are best evoked by a main character who, unlike the one Shakespeare wrote, is a personification of faith and trust, and stage his version of it in a manner that portrays Othello as such a figure, going so far as to make obviously deliberate substitutions within the script and and alterations to traditional scene settings, stage direction or props that are, just as obviously, designed to lead the audience to realization (if not acceptance) of his or her interpretation of the character as widely parting ways with the commonly understood nature of the jealous Moor, however it would take artistic genius to pull it off. [Sidebar; layman - going for the record here but I couldn't pull it off ]

It's fine to try and convey a unique interpretation of a classic work, but it is not fine to rewrite the work to accomplish it, and based on his body of work, it would be difficult to accept, going in, that Eustis is of sufficient artistry to accomplish the former without resorting, in some degree, to the latter. Judging by the reviews of the production I've read, the critical consensus is that Eustis basically botched whatever his attempt was (unless of course it was his intent to provide Trump Resistance members who are also members of his audience, an opportunity to shamefully revel in a Trump assassination fantasy).

Joe Wegner, at least, seems to deny that Eustis had a particularly unique interpretation of the play's themes that might still ring true despite the necessity of modifying the title character's nature as originally written by Shakespeare, and therefore the next critical question is whether his staging with all of the changes made to cement Donald Trump in the pivotal role of the character Julius Caesar (including those that Eustis apparently thought were necessary to get his take through the thick skulls of his audience e.g. adding a line about how his supporters wouldn't be fazed by his shooting someone on 5th Ave. or the stage setting of Trump/Caesar and Calpurnia sitting on thrones with the former's hand placed squarely on the latter's crotch) not only enhanced audience appreciation of the lessons of the play, but didn't muddle them.

Here again the critical consensus seems to be that this production lacked the required enhancement, but made up for it with considerable muddle.

So what the hell was Eustis up to?

I'll accept his assurances that he did not intend to make some sort of twisted statement that assassinating Donald Trump is a good, necessary or even acceptable response to Trump as President, but he pretty clearly banked on his audience containing a many more opponents of Trump than supporters. Whether he anticipated or hoped for the standing ovation reaction to the Trump/Caesar assassination scene of some audience members during some performances, I've no idea, but, again, if he says he didn't, I'll accept that. The operative word here though is banked.

In the last 50 years or so, a great many directors of Shakespeare's plays have attempted to put a new spin or their personal stamp on classics that have been revered for hundreds of years, and most often staged in a common manner. This is certainly understandable no matter how ego driven it may be. I also don't have any problem if the attempts are also driven, in part, for reasons of monetary or critical reward. Directing these plays in The Park is a job after all and the directors should not be ashamed that they expect and want monetary remuneration. Everyone likes to be praised and artists, probably, more so than most. At the level of commercial theater in which Eustis operates, critical acclaim in not only personally gratifying, it means more money and more opportunities.

Any arguments being made about artistic freedom and censorship are the typical responses to objections about "art" that is offensive and/or almost exclusively, aggressively provocative. While progressives most frequently make these arguments they are certainly not, themselves, immune to taking offense from art. That they are the originators of most of the arguments made for these reasons is more an indication of the politics of most artists rather than any exceptional tolerance, for art's sake, on the part of progressives.

"Piss Christ," for example attracted a great deal of condemnation by Christians (although harsh criticism was not limited to members of that faith) and a goodly amount of support based on the notion of artistic freedom (some coming from people who acknowledged finding the piece personally offensive. I suppose if someone wants to work really hard at finding a relevant message in "Piss Christ" that might separate it from being purely a very offensive and aggressively provocative middle finger extended towards Christians, they might come up with some flimsy assertion that it was intended to bring home the artist's view that religious symbols are no more sacred or special than human waste. No reason to ban it's display or persecute the artist, but sufficiently hostile and tasteless enough to question the artist's character and artistry and to advance the idea that taxpayer dollars should not be used to either support the artist or fund the showing of his work.

I can easily imagine the reaction from progressives to an equally hostile and tasteless work of "art" that gruesomely and realistically depicted illegal immigrants being blown up at the border between the US and Mexico, and I imagine it would be filled with an outrage similar to that displayed by Christians in response to "Piss Christ." I would share their reaction and argue that the artist deserved the same treatment as I believe was warranted towards Andres Serrano as respects public funding, even though if I worked really hard, I might be able to create a flimsy assertion that the painting "Invasores Muertos" reflected the artist's point of view about the dangers and harm of illegal immigration to both the nations they enter illegally and the immigrants themselves, and therefore be entitled to the intellectual and legal protection afforded artistic free expression. It would be BS of course, or, at least, no more substantive than the rationale employed to designate "Piss Christ" art, but as the determination of what can be called art is so heavily based on subjective interpretation, it should be the sort of BS available to keep it free of censorship based on notions of hate speech.

The current Shakespeare in the Park production of "Julius Caesar" is not, in my opinion, in the same league as "Piss Christ" or the fictitious "Invasores Muertos," if only because while the offensive, tasteless, and cartoonish depiction of Trump as Caesar, and particularly the bloody assassination scene, seriously distracts from the lessons Joe Wegner believes the play can impart, it doesn't eradicate them entirely. It can't be said that the play is only hateful and hostile provocation, but it can and should be said that it is an example of free speech that needs to be protected.

Having said this, Delta and BOA's withdrawal of their funding of the play is not an assault against free speech and neither is the recent instance where two audience members stood up and shouted "Shame!" during the assassination scene. Any comparison between the conduct of these two people and book burning is specious at best. The two audience members didn't destroy the work or attempt to deprive others of the opportunity to experience it, and, in fact, were exercising their 1st Amendment right to free speech, which is the best way to respond to speech one feels is offensive and antagonistic. If the organizers of Shakespeare in the Park wished to claim the right to eject patrons whose behavior might be considered disruptive, they would not be condemned by me for trampling on freedom of speech. I would ask them why they didn't similarly eject those patrons who stood and cheered when Trump/Caesar has multiple knives thrust into his body, but I would not be leading a 1st Amendment crusade against them.

Finally, I don't accept that provocation for it's own sake is what art is all about, nor the assertion of James Baldwin that it is the artist's role to disturb the peace. This doesn't, at all, mean that works which provoke reaction and disturb the status quo have any less artistic value than a painting by Johannes Vermeer or a sculpture by Michelangelo, but if all they contain is shock value than their value is very negligible indeed. In my mind, the Eustis production isn't lousy art because it might incite some lunatic to violence, but because it was created, in too large a measure, to exploit base emotions and indulge the hatred of it's director and large segments of it's audience.

Again, I have not seen the play and the the opinions I've expressed here are based on what has been written by people who have seen it, and personal experiences with other plays and works of art. This clearly presents a high risk of being off the mark on this production. If anyone has actually seen the play, I would love to hear their take on it.


Finn dAbuzz
 
  0  
Sat 17 Jun, 2017 11:28 pm
@ossobucotemp,
Many thanks osso, but apparently you missed my post wherein I announced that I was not undergoing surgery of any kind and that my post in which I told blatham I was, was intended in jest as a way to tweak him.

Again, I appreciate all the kind words and good wishes, even though, in truth, my health doesn't need them.
0 Replies
 
 

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