192
   

monitoring Trump and relevant contemporary events

 
 
oralloy
 
  -4  
Fri 16 Jun, 2017 04:21 pm
@blatham,
blatham wrote:
We understand why McConnell and crowd are operating so secretively. We understand why they'd like to get this "done" with no public debate and with no public awareness of what they are up to and the real-life consequences for American citizens. And we understand that they hope/believe they can somehow get away with this through deceits and obfuscations which will be supported and forwarded by the media system on the right and thus minimize electoral consequences for them.

The fact that the Democrats are focusing all of their attention on a witch hunt does not mean that the business of the American people is being done in secret.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -3  
Fri 16 Jun, 2017 04:22 pm
@blatham,
Quote:
Republicans are poised to take the unprecedented step of passing a sweeping piece of legislation — a bill to eliminate health insurance from millions of Americans — without so much as a single hearing. In defense of his plan to keep his bill secret, and rush it into law with minimal public scrutiny, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell claims the debate has really been going on for seven years anyway.

“Look, we’ve been dealing with this issue for seven years,” McConnell tells the New York Times. “It’s not a new thing.” McConnell adds that there have been “gazillions of hearings on this subject” over the years.

Just because the Democrats are too busy with their bogus witch hunts to pay any attention to the business of the American people, that doesn't mean the Republicans aren't going to get things done.
blatham
 
  2  
Fri 16 Jun, 2017 04:33 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Most of your post is quite rational. Let's briefly take up a couple of things.
Quote:
The talking points list speaks for itself! No counter-arguments are required, it's mere existence is evidence of guilt and fear.
Of course not. But for reasons you've mentioned, it is valuable for citizens to understand when the GOP or DNC or other such entity sends out communications directives and what is in them. I'd be pleased if all of them were leaked. We humans tend to accept as credible that which is said multiple times and/or which comes from multiple sources. Propagandists and marketers understand this very well and that's why they do it. But we serve ourselves better, as thinkers and as citizens, if we know this and modulate the credibility we grant to such repetition.

Quote:
Are the American people supposed to have concluded by now (Thanks to WaPo and the NY Times) that because they've reported that Mueller is investigating Trump for obstruction; based on the word of unnamed "officals," that the case is closed and Trump and his associates are all guilty?

Again, of course not. But it is inevitable that consensus will be affected when evidence of the possibility of guilt slowly builds. Watergate is just one of many examples. The press have a proper role here and if they were to shirk in their institutional responsibility, we'd be far worse off as a society.
layman
 
  -2  
Fri 16 Jun, 2017 04:41 pm
@blatham,
blatham wrote:

Watergate is just one of many examples. The press have a proper role here and if they were to shirk in their institutional responsibility, we'd be far worse off as a society.


Wrong. What Nixon did had no real effect on society. He didn't even approve of the petty break-in. All he did was try to help his homeys. If any cheese-eater is actually concerned about that, they should be demanding that "the press" start exposing Obama, Lynch, Holder, Podesta, Clapper, Brennan, et al. For some damn reason, they aint doin that.

Not to even mention Comey. It was his FBI that gave immunity to all of Clinton's closest aides and agreed to allow them to destroy their computers with incriminating evidence on them, remember?
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Fri 16 Jun, 2017 04:47 pm
@revelette1,
revelette1 wrote:
I have noticed a lot of your post are disingenuous.

Nonsense. His posts are straightforward and factual.


revelette1 wrote:
for eight long years we have had republicans making very provocative hate filled statements

No we haven't.


revelette1 wrote:
Moreover, Fox News and other conservative media went on about Obama for eight years every bit as much as MSN (so called) media is now.

I missed the part where there was a real attempt to impeach Obama over fictitious charges.


revelette1 wrote:
There just happens to be more to report about Trump because of the very real Russian investigation and Trump and his associates ties to it.

There is nothing even remotely real about these accusations. You're waging a witch hunt against innocent people and it is shameful.
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  -2  
Fri 16 Jun, 2017 04:50 pm
The left's hatred of Nixon was almost as intense as it is for Trump. Back then they were bombing federal buildings and police stations, while going on wild "days of rage" wantonly destroying property and injuring innocent people. Looting and riots in most major cities with attempts to burn them all to the ground, etc. All because Nixon presented a "threat" to them, i.e., he didn't adopt their cheese-eating agenda.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Fri 16 Jun, 2017 04:50 pm
@snood,
snood wrote:
...and since he's obviously a pretty bright guy, that's troublesome. If he was just stupid it would be easier to dismiss the stupid things he says. But since he's smart you have to think he's being consciously disingenuous, or that he is somehow self-deceived so completely its almost on an organic level.

The answer is that everything he said is completely correct. You guys are all delusional lunatics so none of you recognize reality when he posts about it.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  2  
Fri 16 Jun, 2017 04:51 pm
@ehBeth,
Quote:
and I ask again ... who benefits from the increased partisanship in the US?
That's really a key question here, bethie. But it isn't something I find easy to analyze as the benefits accrue so broadly. Both parties have quite vast sub-structures (take just Carville and Matalin, merely two individuals) where very much money is being made. There's all the consulting firms, the advertising agencies, the TV and print entities making mega-bucks on advertising, etc. But even Sanders or the Greens have to play this game too in order to compete. Outside of massive electoral finance reform, I don't see a way out. And I don't see that happening because so many profit as things are.

But past all that stuff, there are other entities who's interests are facilitated when citizens' attention and anger is directed elsewhere. And that is the corporate world, particularly those in it who wish to weaken citizen government so that they can operated relatively unimpeded.
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  -3  
Fri 16 Jun, 2017 04:52 pm
The first and second amendments are part of the Bill of Rights; take either of them away, and the union itself becomes illegitimate.

Nonetheless, in this present situation, something has to give. Neither of the first amendments was intended as a license for mayhem or as a vehicle to allow a rogue political party to escape from reality.

There will almost certainly be renewed cries for banning semiautomatic rifles such as the AK or M16. However, even if such a ban were politically possible, which it isn’t, it is easily seen that such a ban would not prevent or even hamper something like just now occurred in Alexandria Virginia. As was the case with the two DC area snipers in 2002, this shooter was not really making any use of the features which differentiate an assault rifle from a more normal firearm and could just as easily have done as much damage with an ordinary little lever action Henry rifle, which is a $300-$400 item on GunBroker.com, using rimfire ammunition.

In other words, you would have to completely ban all firearms and find some magical way to enforce such a ban to resolve the present problem via any kind of gun control strategy.

The question of the First Amendment and how it relates to this latest massacre, however, is substantially different. There actually are laws against inciting riots, inciting violence, inciting murder, and against other forms of gross misuse of the First Amendment. Those law should be enforced, beginning immediately. No reasonable society should be expected to tolerate the kinds of activities which Democrats and other leftists have been perpetrating since the election last November.
oralloy
 
  -3  
Fri 16 Jun, 2017 04:53 pm
@snood,
snood wrote:
and if he's corrupt people should know? Maybe?

We should know if any of the Democrats are corrupt. Time for all the Democrats to undergo IRS audits and FBI investigations of their entire lives. Their relatives too.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -3  
Fri 16 Jun, 2017 04:56 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:
Somebody should post Trump's talking points on A2K every day. It might well spare us the copy-pasted posts of his followers.

Republican talking points are easy. Just say whatever the truth is.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Fri 16 Jun, 2017 04:57 pm
@layman,
layman wrote:
It's two things, Walt:

1. What did russia do to affect our election--how did they do it, and how can we prevent it in the future?

2. The bogus allegation that he colluded with the russians to "rig" the election.

Not one bit of this has anything to do with #1.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -3  
Fri 16 Jun, 2017 04:59 pm
@gungasnake,
gungasnake wrote:
There actually are laws against inciting riots, inciting violence, inciting murder, and against other forms of gross misuse of the First Amendment. Those law should be enforced, beginning immediately. No reasonable society should be expected to tolerate the kinds of activities which Democrats and other leftists have been perpetrating since the election last November.

Yes. That's it exactly.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Fri 16 Jun, 2017 05:01 pm
@layman,
layman wrote:
The left's hatred of Nixon was almost as intense as it is for Trump. Back then they were bombing federal buildings and police stations, while going on wild "days of rage" wantonly destroying property and injuring innocent people. All because Nixon presented a "threat" to them, i.e., he didn't adopt their cheese-eating agenda.

This is why I'm saying we need to outlaw the Democratic Party. We can't let them do stuff like this.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  3  
Fri 16 Jun, 2017 05:02 pm
Finely-tuned machines are efficient.
Quote:
In fact, going into this year, only two American presidents have ever been the subject of federal criminal inquiries -- Richard Nixon and Bill Clinton -- and both ran into trouble in their second terms.

This small club, however, now has a new member, with Donald Trump facing his own criminal investigation. Time will tell what becomes of the ongoing federal probe, but MSNBC's Ari Melber raised an interesting numerical point yesterday: when Nixon first faced a criminal inquiry into his misconduct in office, he'd been president for 1,580 days. For Clinton, it was 1,835 days.

For Trump, it was 145 days.
Benen
Damned impressive, that.
snood
 
  3  
Fri 16 Jun, 2017 05:19 pm
@blatham,
He knows all the best criminals. He does the best crime. His does crime so good you wouldn't believe it. All the polls show him to be the best criminal. The fake news won't give him credit for how bigly his crime is. Sad.
blatham
 
  4  
Fri 16 Jun, 2017 05:20 pm
I gather we all know that Trump has now admitted he is under investigation. He tweeted this, of course
Quote:
Donald J. Trump ✔ @realDonaldTrump
I am being investigated for firing the FBI Director by the man who told me to fire the FBI Director! Witch Hunt
6:07 AM - 16 Jun 2017
The unnamed culprit seems to be Rosenstein but that almost doesn't matter.

Aside from the very serious damage already done by this guy and all the risks up the road from his presidency/leadership, he is an interesting character.

He cannot/will not admit error. Any criticism of him must be met with an attack. He clearly believes that humility = humiliation. And humiliation is the thing to be prevented above all else. Thus he is unable, in any public forum, to admit that others know more than him ("I know more about ISIS than the generals"). It's why, or partly why, he does not study issues, which is an implicit acknowledgement others know more.

He really is pretty fucked up, this guy. But it is how he's fucked up that is interesting.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  2  
Fri 16 Jun, 2017 05:29 pm
@snood,
Well, he definitely is going to be a noted figure in US history. I expect that future historians of the presidency will refer to this point in time as the "WTF?! Interregnum".
blatham
 
  1  
Fri 16 Jun, 2017 05:31 pm
From Andrew Sullivan
Quote:
Trump's Derangement Deepens
Let me put this as simply as I can. After firing FBI Director James Comey for investigating the Trump campaign’s contacts with Russians, the president is now openly smearing and threatening to fire his successor as most prominent investigator, special counsel Robert Mueller. There is no question about the motive behind all this, because Trump has told anyone within hearing distance or access to a television that he fired Comey to kill a vital and important investigation into Russian interference in our elections, which yesterday Putin all but admitted: “They meddle in all other countries’ affairs, what did they expect?” For good measure, Trump is now openly arguing through surrogates that Mueller is acting in bad faith, pursuing a “witch hunt,” and should be fired if his investigation gets anywhere near the president.

Every now and again, you have to take a moment, stop being distracted by the constant breaking news, and let all this sink in.

This is now a slow-moving version of Nixon’s Saturday Night Massacre — but graver. It’s graver because the original crime — the Kremlin’s attempt to hack our elections in possible cahoots with some on the Trump campaign — has so much wider ramifications than an office break-in...
NYMag
oralloy
 
  -2  
Fri 16 Jun, 2017 05:32 pm
@blatham,
blatham wrote:
Well, he definitely is going to be a noted figure in US history. I expect that future historians of the presidency will refer to this point in time as the WTF?! period.

Trump will be remembered as the equal of Washington, Lincoln, and FDR.

The people who hate Trump will be remembered as the equal of the people who hated Washington, hated Lincoln, and hated FDR.
0 Replies
 
 

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