192
   

monitoring Trump and relevant contemporary events

 
 
gungasnake
 
  -3  
Fri 9 Jun, 2017 10:46 am
Literature from the LaRouche group strikes most people as very strange in the statements which it makes about the British Empire and the relationship between the United States and England in general. Nonetheless, I come to most of the same conclusions which they do.

The conclusion I come to is that Germany, Japan, and Russia have never been natural enemies or adversaries of the United States and that something weird has to happen for us to be at war (hot or cold) with one of those states. The closest thing which the universe offers to a natural adversary or enemy of the United States appears to be England, or at least the people who control England.
MontereyJack
 
  4  
Fri 9 Jun, 2017 10:47 am
@oralloy,
The FBI is by law an independent body to investigate wrongdoing. The president cannot order it around, even though it's in the executive branch. Trump clearly overstepped the legal bunds. Repeatedly.
camlok
 
  -2  
Fri 9 Jun, 2017 10:56 am
@gungasnake,
Quote:
The conclusion I come to is that Germany, Japan, and Russia have never been natural enemies or adversaries of the United States and that something weird has to happen for us to be at war (hot or cold) with one of those states.


US adversaries are those who are not willing to let the US be the top predator, the one who gets the largest share of the pillaging of the poor countries of the world.

How you guys can go on and on deny such stark realities, that the US is a giant evil predator that has been murdering and stealing the poor's wealth for centuries, all disguised by the "savior of the oppressed" bullshit is one of the wonders of the world - how can so many be so deluded?
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -3  
Fri 9 Jun, 2017 11:26 am
@MontereyJack,
The president can order it around. It's part of the Executive branch, not a separate branch of the government. The president is the chief of the Executive branch.

Jim Comey took it upon himself to close the HRC case and it's questionable as to whether or not he had such discretion, but if he does and the Attorney General does, than so does the president who is their boss. His subordinates don't have greater powers than him.

And again, despite Comey's interpretation, the alleged comments made by Trump to him don't clearly constitute an order. Now you can allege that Trump very carefully chose his phrasing so he could deny he was issuing an order (and he quite possibly did) but that sort of goes against the cartoon of a blustering bully incapable of subtlety that you and your friends always wish to paint him as.

As much as you would like to think Comey nailed Trump, he didn't. He insulted him and portrayed him a very unflattering manner, but what else is new?
oralloy
 
  -3  
Fri 9 Jun, 2017 11:27 am
@camlok,
camlok wrote:
You don't have a clue what has happened.

Wrong. I have bothered to take note of reality, and as such I know exactly what is going on.


camlok wrote:
You are the rankest partisan of all and there are some blind blind blind partisan people.

I'm loyal to truth and justice.

Truth and justice just happen to side with the Republicans.
oralloy
 
  -4  
Fri 9 Jun, 2017 11:28 am
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:
If the order obstructs justice , thats an impeachable offense. Firing the director merely compounds obstruction of justice.

There was no order.

If it had been an order though, it would have been lawful and would not have obstructed justice.

You might as well say "if the order caused a nuclear explosion over an American city".

Sure that would be a bad thing if it were true. But since it isn't true, no big deal.


farmerman wrote:
Trump's not coming out clean here, the investigation continues.

The Democrats' abuse of the legal system to harm people who disagree with them is not acceptable. It is time to purge all the liberals from society. They don't belong here.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -3  
Fri 9 Jun, 2017 11:30 am
@blatham,
blatham wrote:
It's not like this is a complicated point. Sheesh.

Complexity is not the problem.

The fact that the Democrats are concocting untrue charges against innocent people is the problem.

It's time to abolish the Democratic Party in America. It's time to get rid of all the liberals.
0 Replies
 
camlok
 
  0  
Fri 9 Jun, 2017 11:30 am
@oralloy,
More oralloy denial of oralloy denying reality.

You might have a case if you had anything besides oralloy uninformed opinion to back your nonsense up.

oralloy
 
  -3  
Fri 9 Jun, 2017 11:34 am
@MontereyJack,
MontereyJack wrote:
The FBI is by law an independent body to investigate wrongdoing. The president cannot order it around, even though it's in the executive branch. Trump clearly overstepped the legal bunds. Repeatedly.

The Constitution says otherwise.
oralloy
 
  -3  
Fri 9 Jun, 2017 11:36 am
@camlok,
camlok wrote:
More oralloy denial of oralloy denying reality.

Since I do not deny reality, I am well within my rights to point out that I do no such thing.


camlok wrote:
You might have a case if you had anything besides oralloy uninformed opinion to back your nonsense up.

I am, as always, very well informed. That is why you can never point out a single fact that I am wrong about.

Sticking your head in the sand and pretending that facts are opinion won't make them stop being facts.
0 Replies
 
camlok
 
  -2  
Fri 9 Jun, 2017 11:39 am
@oralloy,
Quote:
The Constitution says otherwise.


Yet, no oralloy proof, as ever. What a joke!
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  3  
Fri 9 Jun, 2017 12:00 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
No it's not but there's a very big IF at the start.
the assertion Farmerman addressed was the blanket immunity to any presidential order.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -2  
Fri 9 Jun, 2017 12:04 pm
@blatham,
Well I missed that FM was giving us civic lessons then.
blatham
 
  3  
Fri 9 Jun, 2017 12:12 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
As much as you would like to think Comey nailed Trump, he didn't.
Not my area of expertise, of course, but I suspect you're right in terms of making a sufficient legal case. But it may be the case that further evidence turns that corner. We'll have to wait to see. Personally, I have little doubt that Comey's interpretation of Trump's intent was correct. No just on the basis of Comey's interactions with Trump in this matter (which I find compelling) but because of how Trump has operated in the past in many instances that we know of. He's not an honest man. And he's a bully. And he's a crook.

Edit: we should note that it seems pretty certain from Comey's testimony that Mueller is now also looking into the question of whether Trump sought to obstruct. That's no small matter.
blatham
 
  3  
Fri 9 Jun, 2017 12:13 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
Well I missed that FM was giving us civic lessons then.
"Us" is the wrong term. He was responding to one person's unthoughtful assertion.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -2  
Fri 9 Jun, 2017 12:28 pm
@blatham,
There may be more to see, and one way or the other I would like to see what there is to see ASAP.

Fortunately for defendants in this country at least the personal assumptions and beliefs of observers (In Canada or the US) don't enter into the picture. This is not to say that you can't have your personal opinion, because, obviously, you can, but you do tend to advance your opinion as indisputable fact every now and then.

My personal opinion is that Trump is proving day after day that he's not quite up to the presidency, because he allows his lack of impulse control to govern him too often. This doesn't mean that he can't advance very positive policies for America, but it's likely to mean that he will be shooting himself in the foot throughout his term and giving his political enemies (and make no mistake, that is exactly what they are) ammo. Anything is possible, but I find it very difficult to believe that he will go down in history as a "great president," and if I had to bet right now (and it's way to premature to do so) I would doubt that he runs for a second term.

I would have much preferred a different anti-Establishment, conservative standard bearer, but he's what I got and the central question is whether or not Trump, with all his flaws, is worse for American than another Stateist like Obama. Right now I don't see any reason to think the US would have been better off with the personification of political corruption, Hillary Clinton.

I have no problem defending him when I view criticism politically motivated (As most of it is)



Finn dAbuzz
 
  -2  
Fri 9 Jun, 2017 12:29 pm
@blatham,
OK - "anyone"
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  2  
Fri 9 Jun, 2017 12:37 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
You demonstrate more resiliency re Trump than most others on the right here and I find that admirable.

Of course, ideologically, you are over in that corner with Hitler and Satan while I'm in the other place with the Lord Jesus and Fidel Castro.
blatham
 
  2  
Fri 9 Jun, 2017 12:46 pm
Probably, the one thing we can take from yesterday's hearing is that there is now no way the investigation into Russian election manipulation and possible ties to that with individuals in Trump's campaign/administration cannot now be derailed and is a matter under very serious and thorough investigation. That's a very good thing given what we already know about Russia's involvement in the US and Europe and the threats this poses. Also under investigation will be Trump's own and his associates financial dealings with Russia and whether these factors have relevance and security/policy ramifications of a potentially criminal nature. A Republican-controlled congress cannot be counted on to do this right. And now we don't have to count on that.
blatham
 
  1  
Fri 9 Jun, 2017 12:55 pm
Just read this now. This is exactly where I stand.

Quote:
‘We now have what we did not have before: reliable public sworn testimony’
David Cole is the national legal director of the ACLU and the Honorable George J. Mitchell professor in law and public policy at the Georgetown University Law Center.

It should change things. Comey’s testimony provided what has thus far been lacking with respect to this controversy: direct public testimony, under oath. Comey testified at length and in detail about Trump’s efforts to end a criminal investigation of Flynn, Trump’s former national security adviser. The testimony was frank, direct and, at least to this viewer, highly credible. So we now have what we did not have before: reliable public sworn testimony that the president of the United States actively sought to halt a criminal investigation into his own adviser’s potential ties to Russia. In addition, it is undisputed on the public record that when Comey declined to end the investigation Trump fired him, that the Trump administration initially lied about the reasons for the firing and that Trump later admitted that he fired Comey because of the Russia investigation. These are serious allegations of grave misconduct.

In one sense, however, the testimony does not seem to have changed one thing: What was perhaps most disturbing was that given these allegations, the response from most of the Republican senators was not to try to get to the bottom of the issue, but to cast aspersions, obfuscate and misdirect. The facts described by Comey warrant the most serious nonpartisan attention. They should concern Americans of all political leanings. They involve the possibility of obstruction of justice, a threat to the rule of law itself, and of collusion with Russia in its attempts to interfere with our democratic process. The workings of the democratic process and the rule of law are foundational values to our republic, and deserve defending whatever one’s political inclinations are. Thus far, the Republicans have not shown an inclination to get to the bottom of this, and that is a sad commentary on the partisan divide that so permeates Washington, and our country.
Politico
 

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