192
   

monitoring Trump and relevant contemporary events

 
 
blatham
 
  3  
Fri 9 Jun, 2017 07:24 am
I really hope there is a prostitute/golden shower video because it would present the possibility that in a future investigation interview, Trump will advance the following sentence:

"Well, it depends on what your definition of whizz is."
blatham
 
  2  
Fri 9 Jun, 2017 07:33 am
This really is the case, isn't it.
Quote:
Comey's testimony became a pop culture phenomenon. Trump has no one but himself to blame.
The President Trump reality show finally got its reunion special with Comey’s testimony
Vox
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  2  
Fri 9 Jun, 2017 07:39 am
@blatham,
blatham wrote:

I really hope there is a prostitute/golden shower video because it would present the possibility that in a future investigation interview, Trump will advance the following sentence:

"Well, it depends on what your definition of whizz is."


And Blatham scores!
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -3  
Fri 9 Jun, 2017 08:14 am
@layman,
layman wrote:
Trump, and many others, hated it at the time, but I think appointing a special prosecutor was the best thing he could have done under the circumstances.
Quote:
Mueller’s appointment complicates Congress’ Russia investigations

Robert Mueller's appointment as a special counsel has quickly complicated Congress' investigations into Russia’s election meddling.

The leaders of the House and Senate Intelligence Committees are anxious to speak with Mueller, who’s now overseeing the FBI’s parallel Russia probe, to ensure their congressional investigations don’t interfere. But Mueller has yet to agree to meet with congressional investigators, according to the panels' leaders.

Sen. Lindsey Graham, who chairs a Judiciary subcommittee with oversight over the FBI, is simply putting the brakes on his investigation. “One of the realities of having somebody looking into potential criminal charges is that you've got to be careful what you do in Congress,” said Graham, a former Air Force lawyer.

if Congress’ investigation crumbles, the public may never find out the depths of Russian intrusion in the 2016 election, as a special counsel is largely focused on whether anyone broke the law.

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/05/28/mueller-congress-russia-probes-trump-238820

Democrats screamed for it at the top of their lungs. They got it. Now they can get back to real congressional business.

I don't think it is a good thing.

It is true that a special prosecutor is not about countering Russian meddling. Special prosecutors only care about making abusive criminal charges.

But that is exactly what the Democrats want. The Democrats have never had any objections against Russian meddling. If anything they see such meddling as good. The only thing the Democrats are trying to do is use abusive criminal prosecutions to harm people that they disagree with.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -3  
Fri 9 Jun, 2017 08:17 am
@hightor,
hightor wrote:
The only people I hear crying are the Trump supporters.

Well what the Democrats are doing is truly outrageous.


hightor wrote:
Their desperate attempts to put some sort of positive spin on Comey's damning testimony offers insight into how propaganda is manufactured and disseminated.

What damming testimony is this? Well, I guess I know what testimony you are referring to. Let me rephrase the question.

How is that testimony even remotely damming?


hightor wrote:
I remarked yesterday that the same right wing talking points were being deployed, over and over.

All the Republicans were doing was pointing out the truth.


hightor wrote:
Someone later accused the left of doing the same thing but I don't think that charge is accurate here. The reason is that the stories have continually been breaking against Trump. The anti-Trump people don't have to resort to talking points — all they need to do is discuss each new revelation.

Might want to pause and take notice of the reality that no wrongdoing has been revealed.


hightor wrote:
It's Trump's supporters who are on the defensive, grasping at straws and distinguishing nuance where none exists.

Grasping at straws? When no case for any wrongdoing has been presented and it is very clear that there has been no wrongdoing?

From my perspective the only real issue here is how do we abolish the Democratic Party, because for the good of the country we need to get rid of them.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Fri 9 Jun, 2017 08:18 am
@snood,
snood wrote:
But I have to say, I cannot understand what kind of human being continues to blindly defend the thing that is occupying the white house.

The kind with ethics and morals. Some of us believe in doing the right thing.


snood wrote:
He openly hobnobs with Russians and Saudis.

That is his right as our leader.

The Saudis, BTW, have been our close allies for many years.


snood wrote:
He gets caught in a lie practically every day. He shows himself to be woefully lacking in maturity or knowledge every time he opens his mouth or his twitter feed.

Teddy Roosevelt also told larger than life whoppers. He was a pretty good president.


snood wrote:
Not only that, but his obvious deficiencies get brushed aside and instead the real or imagined foibles of Hillary or Obama get targeted - as if that is in any way relevant right now.

Democrats belong in prison. It's time to start prosecuting them.
0 Replies
 
revelette1
 
  3  
Fri 9 Jun, 2017 08:20 am
@layman,
I don't see how having a special prosecutor looking into the Russian (from what I understand he has a broad scope)would hamper congress looking into the Russian interference in the 2016 election. At the end of the day, Muller may say no laws on the president's campaign team were broken, but congress can still wrap up exactly what happened and how and then try to find ways of preventing it from happening again. I don't see why the two are conflicting.
oralloy
 
  -3  
Fri 9 Jun, 2017 08:21 am
@revelette1,
Quote:
So let’s not get mired in legal technicalities. Whether or not it was illegal for Trump to urge Comey to back off his investigation into Russia ties to Mike Flynn, who was fired as national security adviser, it was utterly inappropriate. What comes through is a persistent effort by Trump to interfere with the legal system. There’s a consistent pattern: Trump’s contempt for the system of laws that, incredibly, he now presides over.
Quote:
So as we watch Comey testify, remember that the fundamental question is not just whether the president broke a particular law regarding obstruction of justice, but also whether he is systematically assaulting the rule of law that makes us free.

What the author is trying to say is: "Nevermind the fact that there was no wrongdoing whatsoever. Let's lynch him anyway."


revelette1 wrote:
Perhaps we should have read this before Thursday. It reminds us what is important. Even if technically (I think the case could easily be made by congress but they won't do it) it would be an uphill battle to prove obstruction of justice since Trump couched his words as "hope" instead of a direct order, it is still important to remember the narrative of what happened with Comey and Trump. It is actually a disgrace whether it can proved or not.

The Constitution gives the President complete power over the executive branch. Trump was entirely within his rights to do everything that he did.
revelette1
 
  4  
Fri 9 Jun, 2017 08:27 am
@oralloy,
Trump is not within his rights to demand from the FBI loyalty. The FBI is supposed to investigate the truth no matter whose butt is on the line. In order for the FBI to be credible to the people they serve (which is the American people), they have to be independent from the subject they are investigating. Even though Trump was not under investigation at that time, some of his campaign team was, Trump was the head of his campaign team. It would have been a conflict of interest for the FBI to pledge loyalty to Trump in those circumstances. Maybe not legally, (I wouldn't know) but ethically.
oralloy
 
  -3  
Fri 9 Jun, 2017 08:31 am
@revelette1,
revelette1 wrote:
I don't see how having a special prosecutor looking into the Russian (from what I understand he has a broad scope)would hamper congress looking into the Russian interference in the 2016 election. At the end of the day, Muller may say no laws on the president's campaign team were broken, but congress can still wrap up exactly what happened and how and then try to find ways of preventing it from happening again. I don't see why the two are conflicting.

The special prosecutor has a narrow scope.

Also, Congress is not trying to wrap up exactly what happened and try to find ways to prevent it from happening again. The only thing the Democrats care about here is trying to abuse the law to harm people who disagree with them.


Anyway to answer your question, people are not going to testify in front of the Congressional witch hunt unless they are granted immunity. If they are not granted immunity they get to refuse to testify.

If they are granted immunity that will prevent the special prosecutor from making abusive criminal charges against them.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -2  
Fri 9 Jun, 2017 08:35 am
@hightor,
hightor wrote:

The only people I hear crying are the Trump supporters. Their desperate attempts to put some sort of positive spin on Comey's damning testimony offers insight into how propaganda is manufactured and disseminated. I remarked yesterday that the same right wing talking points were being deployed, over and over. Someone later accused the left of doing the same thing but I don't think that charge is accurate here. The reason is that the stories have continually been breaking against Trump. The anti-Trump people don't have to resort to talking points — all they need to do is discuss each new revelation. It's Trump's supporters who are on the defensive, grasping at straws and distinguishing nuance where none exists. I like the "Great Day for Our Glorious Leader" meme and of course, the never-ending refrains of "Hillary's a Crook!", "Obammy Lied!", and "Russia Never Tried to Hack Our Election!"


I think you have trouble distinguishing between crying and crowing.

Despite Comey's carefully tailored implications, he didn't lay out a case of obstruction of justice and he admitted that Trump wasn't under investigation before he was fired and that he told him so three times...just as Trump claimed.

The hue and cry about this is going to go on for some time because it serves the political aims of the Opposition. I just hope Mueller concluded his investigate ASAP.

As for talking points, of course the left has them. Don't be silly. Just listen to the Democrat politicians on TV this Sunday. You will hear virtually the exact same thing from all of them.
oralloy
 
  -3  
Fri 9 Jun, 2017 08:38 am
@revelette1,
revelette1 wrote:
Trump is not within his rights to demand from the FBI loyalty.

The Constitution says he is. He has absolute power over the entire executive branch.


revelette1 wrote:
The FBI is supposed to investigate the truth no matter whose butt is on the line. In order for the FBI to be credible to the people they serve (which is the American people), they have to be independent from the subject they are investigating. Even though Trump was not under investigation at that time, some of his campaign team was, Trump was the head of his campaign team. It would have been a conflict of interest for the FBI to pledge loyalty to Trump in those circumstances. Maybe not legally, (I wouldn't know) but ethically.

The FBI is supposed to follow whatever orders the President gives them. They are part of the executive branch.

It would of course be wrong for a president to order the FBI to disobey a lawful court order, but that is far from what happened here.
camlok
 
  -2  
Fri 9 Jun, 2017 09:11 am
@oralloy,
Quote:
It would of course be wrong for a president to order the FBI to disobey a lawful court order, but that is far from what happened here.


Typical oralloy rank partisanship. You don't have a clue what has happened.

You are the rankest partisan of all and there are some blind blind blind partisan people.
izzythepush
 
  2  
Fri 9 Jun, 2017 09:46 am
@blatham,
blatham wrote:
"Well, it depends on what your definition of whizz is."


There has to be some reason for the freakish colour of his barnet.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  4  
Fri 9 Jun, 2017 09:57 am
@oralloy,
Quote:
The FBI is supposed to follow whatever orders the President gives them


If the order obstructs justice , thats an impeachable offense. Firing the director merely compounds obstruction of justice.

Trump's not coming out clean here, the investigation continues.

Finn dAbuzz
 
  -2  
Fri 9 Jun, 2017 10:03 am
@farmerman,
First of all it's debatable if it was an "order." Because Comey interpreted it as such, doesn't mean it was.

Secondly, it didn't obstruct justice. The Flynn investigation continued and continues today.

Now the statute includes an attempt to obstruct justice as a violation and so the matter isn't definitively closed, but do you really think Congress would impeach Trump (let alone kick him out of office) because of an indefinite attempt that didn't work?
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  4  
Fri 9 Jun, 2017 10:10 am
@farmerman,
Quote:
Quote:
@oralloy,
Quote:
The FBI is supposed to follow whatever orders the President gives them



If the order obstructs justice , thats an impeachable offense. Firing the director merely compounds obstruction of justice.

It's not like this is a complicated point. Sheesh.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -2  
Fri 9 Jun, 2017 10:15 am
@blatham,
No it's not but there's a very big IF at the start.
gungasnake
 
  -2  
Fri 9 Jun, 2017 10:33 am
@revelette1,
Quote:
Trump is not within his rights to demand from the FBI loyalty.


Jim Commie had spent almost his whole working life playing goalie for the KKKlintlers.. The only real reason that Donald Trump should not have asked the dufe who or what he was loyal to was that the answer should of been obvious. Donald Trump should've fired Commie the day he took office.
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  -2  
Fri 9 Jun, 2017 10:44 am
LPAC's take on the thing. The LaRouche group, more than anything else, preaches physical economy. Their position on Donald Trump, starting from eight or 10 months prior to the election, has totally turned 180° around.

Quote:
LaRouche: Stop the FBI Fraud, Stop the Coup Against the President —What the Lying Media Is Not Telling You

Comey testifying before the Senate. June 8, 2017. (CSPAN screengrab)
Comey testifying before the Senate. June 8, 2017. (CSPAN screengrab)

June 9, 2017 - Lyndon LaRouche called upon the American people to shut down the coup underway against President Trump which was fed Thursday by the lying testimony of fired FBI Director James Comey before the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence. LaRouche said that the coup is an FBI-type operation attempting to destroy the United States, and if it is not stopped, the world will face general warfare.
On June 7, former Director of National Intelligence Clapper revealed the actual motivation for the coup against Trump in remarks in Australia. He said that Trump's openness to peace with Russia—the platform upon which Trump was elected by the American people—was itself wholly against U.S. national security interests, in effect, equivalent to treason. It was already known in official Washington well before the election, that President Obama, in collusion with the British, candidate Clinton, DNI head Clapper, CIA head Brennan, and FBI head Comey, had steered the U.S. on a war course with Russia and China, which was meant to be fully activated with Clinton's election. Trump was elected instead, triggering the coup which has followed. President Trump has kept his promise and established better relations with both Russia and China, who are seeking cooperation with the United States in developing the world based on great infrastructure projects. That is the only issue here. Comey backed that up Thursday in a long rant against Russia as a mortal enemy, in response to a question from Senator Joe Manchin.
Here's how the actual conspiracy worked in general outline. According to Comey's own words and their actual implication, on January 6th, FBI Director Comey is selected by Obama's intelligence chiefs to do a "J. Edgar Hoover" on Trump, briefing him on salacious blackmail material fabricated by British intelligence and Clinton campaign operative Christopher Steele. It is a pure Hoover blackmail operation. Comey signals to Trump, "give up your fantasy about cooperation with Russia and we won't release this." Trump doesn't budge. The very next day the whole Steele dossier is leaked all over the international news media, accusing the President-elect of perverse sexual acts with Russian hookers. Comey admitted as much in his testimony Thursday, saying he was aware that this briefing could be construed as a "J. Edgar Hoover moment," in response to a question from Senator Susan Collins of Maine. During this meeting, Comey assured Trump that the President wasn't under FBI investigation. Comey goes out and writes a classified memo about the briefing and the President's responses. Was this memo shared with the British? Who else was it shared with?
Comey claims that he wrote this up because he thought the President would lie. This is hogwash. Comey had already been targeted to bring down the President, to entrap him, if Trump did not back down on seeking better relations with Russia and China. That James Comey set out to entrap the President, is the only logical conclusion which can be drawn from Comey's testimony in response to questions by various Republican Senators.
First, Senator James Risch: I remember, you talked with us shortly after February 14th, when the New York Times wrote an article that suggested that the Trump campaign was colluding with the Russians... that report by the New York Times was not true. Is that a fair statement?
Comey: In the main it was not true.
With respect to the alleged Michael Flynn conversation:
Risch: You quoted exactly what the President said, "I hope you can see your way clear to letting this go, to letting Flynn go. He is a good guy. I hope you can let this go."... He didn't direct you to let it go?
Comey: Not in his words, no.
Risch: He didn't order you to let it go?
Comey: Again, those words are not an order.
Risch: You don't know of anyone being charged for hoping something?
Comey: I don't as I sit here.
In any truthful scenario that should have ended the matter there.
Various Republican Senators asked Comey repeatedly, why, if the President had asked for his loyalty, had told him to drop the Flynn investigation (which was a false statements investigation that the President in all probability did not even know about), why did he not report it to the Attorney General? Alternatively, why did he not threaten to resign, as he had done previously in a confrontation with President George W. Bush? Why keep meeting with the President, telling the President he was not under investigation, while refusing to tell the public the same thing, and returning to strategize with FBI agents about what was said and the next steps. Comey admitted during his testimony that he did not do logical things, including telling the President to stop any improper conduct, because the FBI had decided that these conversations were of "investigative interest," i.e, Comey, acting as an undercover informant, had not yet succeeded in completely setting up President Trump.
Comey includes Assistant FBI Director McCabe in the circle of people he was briefing on all of his interchanges with the President. Unfortunately for Comey and this entire "obstruction of justice" scenario, McCabe testified under oath to Congress following all of these events, that there had been no effort by Trump or anyone else to interfere with or obstruct the FBI investigation. In fact, Comey himself testified to the Senate Thursday that prior to his firing, there was no investigation of President Trump for either obstruction of justice or collusion with the Russians.
In a statement following Comey's staged performance, President Trump's lawyer Marc Kasowitz denied that the President ever asked Comey to let the Michael Flynn matter go, ever pressured Comey, or ever asked for Comey's "loyalty." Kasowitz appropriately emphasized these parts of Comey's testimony:
The alleged Russian hacking did not change any votes.
The President told Comey that if any of his satellite associates did something wrong it would be good to find that out.
James Comey admitted that he leaked all of his memos about his conversations with President Trump to the New York Times, in order to provoke the appointment of a Special Prosecutor. At least one of these memos was classified.
This is not a battle which will go to court. Whether it continues or not is a question for the American people and their representatives. As LaRouche said, it is time for the people to speak and end this disruptive and highly dangerous attempted coup. It's also time for the coup plotters to be investigated, including the treasonous news media.

0 Replies
 
 

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