192
   

monitoring Trump and relevant contemporary events

 
 
blatham
 
  1  
Tue 6 Jun, 2017 09:15 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
Well if you take the New Deal as the catalyst for the conservative movement
No, I don't. I categorize that response or political position as within a traditional Republican ideology. There is a credible and responsible debate regarding the proportionality of a government's moves to care for its citizens. It is the debate that any thinking parents have - Are we spoiling our kid?

As to Buckley's "purge" of the Birchers - we now understand this was a temporary suppression of something with deep cultural roots, perhaps particularly in the South (race was and remains a factor). But it is also apparent that had the Koch brothers not been as wealthy as they are nor as single-minded in forwarding their ideology, Buckley's purge would have been more consequential.

There's also one other very important element to movement conservatism's growth and increasing extremism which I didn't mention. That is the rise of a separate media system which has the goal of moving American culture and politics to the right. Without Fox, for example, the Tea Party would have been a phenomenon much more like the Occupy Movement - a brief and minimally important factor.

Re Viguerie, he is important though his role not well appreciated as I noted so it's understandable that you'd not bumped into the fellow. And in making a list such as this one, it's a bit arbitrary in where one stops adding to the list. For example, Ralph Reed is an important figure along with Abramoff and Rove, all who worked together in a successful move to take control of the College Republicans when they were involved, quite purposefully pushing out moderates. And there's David McIntosh and scores of others as well. But I tried to make the serving at a palatable size.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  2  
Tue 6 Jun, 2017 09:16 am
@ehBeth,
Any particular references you've bumped into that would be helpful?
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  -1  
Tue 6 Jun, 2017 09:23 am
Quote:
The saddest part about the recent terrorist attacks in the U.K. — aside from the actual horror for the victims and their families, of course — was that there was so little new to say about it.

Contrast the reactions to the London attacks and to Trump’s withdrawal from the Paris accord. A writer for the Nation spoke for many when he assured readers that “this is murder” and a “crime against humanity.”

In 2014, Jeremy Corbyn, who has a remote but possible chance of being the next British prime minister, argued that supporting Islamic State is just another “political point of view” and that the government shouldn’t put up “legal obstacles” to Islamic State fighters trying to return to England.

This perspective hasn’t cost him much with his admirers on the left.

But I have to wonder what the reaction would be if he described climate change “denial” as just another political point of view.

We are growing numb to the problem as it becomes part of the background noise of daily life. Even these attacks will be forgotten, absorbed into the gray maw of the “way things are.”

Don’t believe me? Do you remember the Paris terrorist attack that took place a month before the Manchester bombing? How about the Stockholm truck attack two weeks before that? The St. Petersburg bombing four days prior? The Westminster Bridge attack in London two weeks earlier? The machete attack at the Louvre the previous month? What about the horrible Christmas Market attack in Berlin? The assaults at Ohio State University; Hamburg, Germany; and Normandy, France?

I suspect we’ll stay in this rut reading from stale scripts for a good while. {Many will] kept reminding us that more Americans die in bathtubs than from terrorism.


http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-goldberg-london-terror-20170605-story.html

The main MSM response to the London attacks has been to write headlines and long-ass commentary criticizing Trump's "call for action" response to it.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Tue 6 Jun, 2017 09:36 am
@maporsche,
This assertion is based on a polling question whether respondents have "sympathy with young Muslims who leave to UK to join fighters in Syria".
Respondents (1,000) were allowed to say whether they had "a lot", "some" or "no" sympathy with such people travelling to Syria.

Besides the questions what "sympathy" means for whom or why there's nothing besides 'a lot/some/no' ... besides that, the same poll question, asked for Sky News in the same year (2015) to all UK residents, found that 14 per cent of the general population had some "sympathy" for young Muslims leaving to fight in Syria.
maporsche
 
  5  
Tue 6 Jun, 2017 09:39 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

This assertion is based on a polling question whether respondents have "sympathy with young Muslims who leave to UK to join fighters in Syria".
Respondents (1,000) were allowed to say whether they had "a lot", "some" or "no" sympathy with such people travelling to Syria.

Besides the questions what "sympathy" means for whom or why there's nothing besides 'a lot/some/no' ... besides that, the same poll question, asked for Sky News in the same year (2015) to all UK residents, found that 14 per cent of the general population had some "sympathy" for young Muslims leaving to fight in Syria.


That sounds like a worthless poll, and seems that headlines I've been reading that use that poll are DRAMATICALLY mis-reading it.

Hell, based on some definitions of sympathy, even I, an atheist, could be said to have some sympathy for them. Not agreement of course, but sympathy.
layman
 
  -1  
Tue 6 Jun, 2017 09:44 am
Quote:
Third assassin 'was arrested last year trying to get to Syria but was still able to get into UK

The third terrorist behind the London Bridge attack has been named as an Italian-Moroccan man who was arrested last year attempting to get into Syria.

Reports in the Italian media said Youssef Zaghba was able to enter the UK, despite being stopped in Bologna.

Zaghba was stopped at Bologna airport in 2016 when he was trying to fly to Syria via Turkey, and Italian authorities tipped off Britain about his movements. Italy put him on a list of people considered “at risk,” and informed both British and Moroccan authorities of his movements, the paper said.

Police said Zaghba had not been a subject of interest for them or for the MI5 domestic intelligence agency.


For Limeys, muslims trying to join ISIS are just "expressing a political point of view" and should be welcomed into England with open arms, eh?

0 Replies
 
revelette1
 
  4  
Tue 6 Jun, 2017 09:53 am
From what I have read in regards to the London Bridge attack, one of the problems have been a cut in resources of which the labor party blames Prime Minister Theresa May for during her time as interior minister.

Quote:
In particular, the revelation that at least one of the attackers, Khuram Butt, was well known to security services has raised concerns that they lack the resources to prevent attacks.

British police said the third assailant was Youssef Zaghba, 22, and that he had not been a subject of interest for them or the MI5 domestic intelligence agency.

But Italy's Corriere della Sera reported that Zaghba had been stopped at Bologna airport in 2016 when trying to fly to Syria via Turkey, and that Italian authorities had identified him as as a potential "foreign fighter" and tipped off Britain about his movements.

Butt, a 27-year-old British national born in Pakistan, had appeared in a British TV documentary called "The Jihadis Next Door."

As details about the jihadists have emerged, Prime Minister Theresa May has faced questions about her record overseeing cuts to police numbers when she was interior minister.

The latest opinion poll on voting intentions, by Survation for ITV, had the Conservatives' lead over Labour narrowing to just one point from six points in the same poll a week earlier.

The consensus among pollsters remains that May's party, who have been in government since 2010, will win a majority. But a campaign email signed by May told Conservative supporters: "With the polls tightening and with just two days to go until polling day, we need to go all out with one final push.


Reuters
camlok
 
  -3  
Tue 6 Jun, 2017 09:55 am
@maporsche,
Quote:
Hell, based on some definitions of sympathy, even I, an atheist, could be said to have some sympathy for them. Not agreement of course, but sympathy.


You seem to be receptive to the plight of these people, maporsche. Flip the situation 180 degrees. The US is being attacked, has been attacked by powerful outside forces for generations. Millions of Americans have been murdered, raped, beaten, tortured, the wealth of the US stolen, you have no control over who governs you, these outside forces treat you and yours like garbage, ... .

What would you do? What might you do if you had moved abroad to one of these countries that was doing this to your homeland, to your kith and kin that lived in the US?
layman
 
  0  
Tue 6 Jun, 2017 09:59 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

This assertion is based on a polling question whether respondents have "sympathy with young Muslims who leave to UK to join fighters in Syria".
Respondents (1,000) were allowed to say whether they had "a lot", "some" or "no" sympathy with such people travelling to Syria.


That's just a ******* lie, Walt. They were specifically asked if they would report planned terrorism to police.

Nice try, cheese-eater.

Quote:
The 615-page survey found that only one in three British Muslims (34%) would contact the police if they believed that somebody close to them had become involved with jihadists.

The 615-page survey [also] found that more than 100,000 British Muslims sympathize with suicide bombers and people who commit other terrorist acts.

in addition, 23% of British Muslims said Islamic Sharia law should replace British law in areas with large Muslim populations.

On social issues, 52% of the Muslims surveyed said they believe homosexuality should be illegal. Thirty-nine percent of Muslims surveyed believe women should always obey their husbands. One in three British Muslims refuse completely to condemn the stoning of women accused of adultery.


https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/7861/british-muslims-survey
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  4  
Tue 6 Jun, 2017 10:00 am
@camlok,
camlok wrote:

Quote:
Hell, based on some definitions of sympathy, even I, an atheist, could be said to have some sympathy for them. Not agreement of course, but sympathy.


You seem to be receptive to the plight of these people, maporsche. Flip the situation 180 degrees. The US is being attacked, has been attacked by powerful outside forces for generations. Millions of Americans have been murdered, raped, beaten, tortured, the wealth of the US stolen, you have no control over who governs you, these outside forces treat you and yours like garbage, ... .

What would you do? What might you do if you had moved abroad to one of these countries that was doing this to your homeland, to your kith and kin that lived in the US?


That's what I mean. I can sympathize with their situation and point of view. That's not agreement, but I can empathize with their plights.
layman
 
  -2  
Tue 6 Jun, 2017 10:11 am
This from a guy who was the head of Britain's Equality and Human Rights Commission, and compiled a the 1997 report, "Islamophobia: A Challenge for Us All."

Also known as the Runnymede Report, the document popularized the term "Islamophobia" in Britain and had a singular role in silencing criticism of mass immigration from the Muslim world. Twenty years later, Phillips now concedes that he has had a change of heart.

Quote:
In an essay for the Sunday Times, Trevor Phillips, the host of the documentary and a former head of Britain's Equality and Human Rights Commission, warned of a growing "chasm" between Muslims and non-Muslims in Britain that "isn't going to disappear any time soon."

Phillips wrote that the poll reveals "the unacknowledged creation of a nation within the nation, with its own geography, its own values and its own very separate future." He added: "I thought Europe's Muslims would gradually blend into the landscape. I should have known better."


I wonder if any other flaming cheese-eater will ever admit how wrong they've been, eh?
camlok
 
  -4  
Tue 6 Jun, 2017 10:13 am
@maporsche,
Well, it seems to me that a person expressing this degree of honesty might want to suggest to others that there is a reason for these actions. Actions that would be taken by how many Americans, virtually all? tens of millions? if the situation were reversed?

How many Americans think there was justification for going into Iraq and Afghanistan?

And now that facts have shown there was no justification, that the US/UK invasions were illegal and immoral, are there no westerners who feel the confusion, the anger, the hatred that these "terrorists" could be feeling?

I ask a hypothetical question, strictly for discussion purposes.

Are they not justified in their actions? Possibly even much more so than the actions taken by the US/UK/... .

Isn't anyone willing to consider how quickly ISIS type bands of Americans/Brits would form within their respective countries to battle the invaders if the situation was reversed, another powerful country invading the US/UK/Canada/Australia/... ?
Lash
 
  0  
Tue 6 Jun, 2017 10:20 am
@blatham,
How do you explain the modern American progressive left's refusal to believe the Russian campaign tampering narrative without evidence?
layman
 
  -1  
Tue 6 Jun, 2017 10:24 am
@camlok,
camlok wrote:

Are they not justified in their actions?


Which particular sect of islam are you devoted to, Cammie-boy?

Wahabi?

Salafi?
maporsche
 
  3  
Tue 6 Jun, 2017 10:26 am
@camlok,
camlok wrote:

Well, it seems to me that a person expressing this degree of honesty might want to suggest to others that there is a reason for these actions. Actions that would be taken by how many Americans, virtually all? tens of millions? if the situation were reversed?

How many Americans think there was justification for going into Iraq and Afghanistan?

And now that facts have shown there was no justification, that the US/UK invasions were illegal and immoral, are there no westerners who feel the confusion, the anger, the hatred that these "terrorists" could be feeling?

I ask a hypothetical question, strictly for discussion purposes.

Are they not justified in their actions? Possibly even much more so than the actions taken by the US/UK/... .

Isn't anyone willing to consider how quickly ISIS type bands of Americans/Brits would form within their respective countries to battle the invaders if the situation was reversed, another powerful country invading the US/UK/Canada/Australia/... ?


I think you'd find most American's to be anti-war camlok.

Unfortunately, you see stuff that happens like in Syria and a response is required and the US took it.

To be completely transparent though, I don't have much knowledge in the foreign affairs department. Not much interest either.
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  0  
Tue 6 Jun, 2017 10:26 am
@Lash,
Lash wrote:

How do you explain the modern American progressive left's refusal to believe the Russian campaign tampering narrative without evidence?


I think you mean something like "eagerness" instead of "refusal," eh?
0 Replies
 
camlok
 
  -2  
Tue 6 Jun, 2017 10:26 am
@layman,
Quote:
Which particular sect of islam are you devoted to


Which particular sect of blind Americanism are you devoted to, layman?
maporsche
 
  3  
Tue 6 Jun, 2017 10:28 am
@Lash,
Lash wrote:

How do you explain the modern American progressive left's refusal to believe the Russian campaign tampering narrative without evidence?


I'm pretty sure the American progressive left is mostly pushing for an investigation to see what happened.

There are enough questions that have been raised by the US intelligence agencies and by illegally undisclosed contact with Russian officials that they simply want an investigation to go forth.

The investigation by Nunes in the house started as a complete farce, hence the push for an outside investigation.
hightor
 
  3  
Tue 6 Jun, 2017 10:29 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
I have to admit that I'm not familiar with Richard Viguerie

His contribution was to channel the power of direct mail for fundraising campaigns and rapid response concerning single issues.
layman
 
  0  
Tue 6 Jun, 2017 10:29 am
@camlok,
Quote:
Which particular sect of blind Americanism are you devoted to, layman?


The Trump school that is gunna completely obliterate radical muslim terrorists like you, eh, Cammie?
 

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