192
   

monitoring Trump and relevant contemporary events

 
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -2  
Mon 29 May, 2017 10:34 am
@Debra Law,
Debra Law wrote:

I was in hospital for few days. Heart attack. Blockage. Angioplasty. Stent. Recovering. Doing well.

What do you think about Trump's self-proclaimed "home run" on his first foreign trip? Are we proud of our guy and his frequent displays of ignorance and immature schmuckiness?




I certainly hope your recovery continues at a speedy pace and that you are feeling back to normal soon.

Of course Trump is going to describe the results of his trip in glowing terms. Did Obama ever come back from a foreign trip and tell the press, "Well I screwed the pooch big time on this one!"

You may not like his choice of words, but you really need to get used to that and let it go. He speaks colloquially. It may not be what some want from their president, but it's the least of all possible sins.

Very few of these trips by any president result in an entirely finished product that can be described as a "home run" and that is especially the case for a new president's first trip abroad. They are intended to send clear messages on direction, set the stage for the development of new agreements, relationships, and policies, and to drop a few symbolic gestures along the way.

I would say the president's visit to Saudi Arabia and his speech before the leaders of just about every Sunni Muslim nation on earth was as close to a home run as we could expect. He got high marks from a number of "experts" on foreign policy, the Middle East, and terrorism, and all those who have been lamenting that his words and deeds would drive these very nations away from cooperation with the US and the West in terms of fighting terrorism should breath a sigh of relief. It appears that he has made it clear to these leaders that, like them, he sees Iran as the major threat in the region and he is willing to provide them with real support in terms of their response to that threat. He also made it clear that the price of this support is their support in response to the threat of Islamist terrorism, and, maybe to a lesser extent, continued improved relations with Israel. It's far too soon to know how this will proceed and turn out, but it was a good start with promising signs. I feel certain that behind the scenes there were discussions about laying off these rulers in terms of human rights providing some progress was observed and this is always a dilemma when dealing with the world as it is rather than as you would like it to be. In the Middle East, if a government will only work with the virtuous, it won't get a lot of work done. The Obama Administration at one time thought it could work with Assad and Syria. Whether or not that a reasonable judgment as these things go is uncertain, but, again, you have to pick a devil or two with whom to dance or you will be sitting on the sidelines and letting events come to you.

The trip to the Vatican was virtually all symbolism as part of the trifecta of visiting the holy places of the world's three great religions (I could quibble about leaving religions like Hinduism and Buddhism off that list but the whole thing was merely symbolism directed at the followers of the so called Big 3).

I'm not as up on the details of his visit to Israel, but from what I can tell it was largely "Israel we love you (more than the Obama Administration did) and we'll always have your back" The Israelis may have been disappointed that it didn't result in moving the US Embassy to Jerusalem, or an unequivocal assertion that Israel has done all it can in terms of achieving peace with the Palestinians and it is the latter who need to step up to the plate, but I feel certain that this came as no surprise and Israel had plenty of prior notice about what would be discussed, and my bet is that what was discussed was Trump's plan involving the Sunnis and the role he would like Israel to play.

I'm pretty sure that the Europeans don't all think his trip there represented a home run, and whether the European media was more likely to join with the US MSM and play up each and every action or word as some sort of gaffe, than the Arab or Israeli media, the impression was given that he wasn't quite on his game in Europe. Liberal leaning UK papers made a ridiculously big deal about his handshake with Macron and an allegation that he physically shoved the PM of Montenegro (I believe it was) out of his way. The fact that US authorities leaked to the press intelligence on the Manchester Bombing that was received from UK authorities rightly caused a stir in the UK and was a personal source of embarrassment to me in my discussions with London colleagues. I'm sure it was even more a source of embarrassment for Trump and those who wish to view him in the worst light chose to describe May's discussion with him about it as a personal scolding which is of course ridiculous. Similarly his choice of the word "losers" to describe those involved in the Manchester bombing was derided in some quarters despite the fact that it's a perfect (but again colloquial) description of these people, and it's ironic, if not hypocritical that the criticism came from folks who reliably balk at more melodramatic descriptions that include the word "evil" or even "cowardly." As well some complained that he took the opportunity to call for a minute of silence as if that was some heinous breach of protocol and civility. The guy can't win for losing.

One of the repeated features of his campaign was the failure of certain NATO members to live up to their defense spending commitment, so I don't know why anyone was surprised when he brought it up. Of course the NATO members (and particularly the deadbeats among them) would have preferred that he unequivocally and fully recognized the relevancy and importance of NATO and reaffirmed the US commitment to Article 5, but that clear endorsement is the only bargaining chip he has. The Obama Administration recognized the basic unfairness of having certain NATO members (including, obviously, the US) carry the burden of defense spending while others reneged on their agreement (It was they who got the members to agree to an increase to 2% of GNP that has been ignored by so many) and they tried, without success, to alter the situation through polite entreaties. A more blunt and direct approach (Trump's nature regardless) was the next logical step. If it results in nations like Germany and Canada meeting their commitment I would say it will have been proven to be a home run.

I get that there are a lot of people who have a deeply personal distaste for Trump and would love to see him out of office tomorrow, and I've no problem with anyone disagreeing with the the foreign policy goals he pursued during this trip, but the fixation on every little gaffe (real or manufactured) that he may have been involved with and to the exclusion of any serious consideration of the policy aspects of the trip is, frankly, childish and petty. I've no doubt that ridiculing Trump has become a bonding exercise in this forum and elsewhere, but the people who engage in it seem oblivious to the fact that in so doing, they make themselves deserving targets of ridicule as well.
camlok
 
  0  
Mon 29 May, 2017 10:36 am
@blatham,
And yet here you are, still fighting the good fight. Debra too. Long may you reign and run!
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  -3  
Mon 29 May, 2017 10:44 am
Bin Ladin is evidently a big hero to limey cops. 12 cops and a helicopter were called in to arrest people playing a song which "dissed" his sorry dead ass, eh? Figures, sho nuff:

Quote:
Cop Calls in Reinforcements, Helicopter After ‘Taking Offense’ at Song Mocking Bin Laden at Party

A British police officer called for reinforcements, including a helicopter, after getting offended by a parody song mocking the death of terrorist Osama bin Laden being played at a garden party.

Initially, only one police officer was sent to the street around 10 p.m. to respond to a neighbor’s complaint about the loud music and alleged anti-Islamic shouting at the garden party, Cambridge News reported.

But after she overheard the song mocking former Al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden at the party...the local police sent another 10 officers and a police helicopter.

The local police spokesperson confirmed to the paper that there’s an ongoing investigation on basis of “incitement of racial hatred."


https://heatst.com/culture-wars/cop-calls-in-reinforcements-helicopter-after-taking-offense-at-song-mocking-bin-laden-at-party/

Here's the tune. No "racial hatred" in it at all. But, ya know, even if there were..far fewer cops have been sent to murder scenes when shots were reported. Maybe they should spend more cop time trying to round up the known terrorists who infest their country, and less harassing harmless people at a party, eh?






camlok
 
  1  
Mon 29 May, 2017 10:48 am
@layman,
As is always the case, layman, you proceed from your position of ignorance and fact challenged and jump to all manner of wacky guesses.

It should scare people no end that you might one day sit on a jury.
0 Replies
 
camlok
 
  1  
Mon 29 May, 2017 10:53 am
@layman,
You've conveniently forgotten that OBL was a dear friend of the USA. A dear friend of those backstabbers who falsely accused him of being involved in 911, when they had zero proof, but promised proof would be forthcoming.

Never was provided.

Now just who are the vicious, lying, people who illegally invaded many sovereign nations and murdered millions?
layman
 
  -3  
Mon 29 May, 2017 11:00 am
@camlok,
Quote:
....falsely accused [OBL] of being involved in 911, when they had zero proof, but promised proof would be forthcoming. Never was provided.


Rant on all you want about me, punk, but do everyone here a favor and don't start yet another of your ludicrous 10 page long spiels showing your ass about how Bush planned and executed 9/11, eh?
camlok
 
  0  
Mon 29 May, 2017 11:02 am
@layman,
Typical layman diversion.

What's your next trick, a layman discussion of constitutional theory?
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  -3  
Mon 29 May, 2017 11:12 am
Britain has stood by and just watched as hundreds with British passports came back in after serving time with ISIS in Syria.

Now that ISIS is losing their caliphate in Syria and adjoining territory, more and more will be unable to decapitate and burn people alive in Syria any more. They'll be back in London to carry on the fight, soon enough.

Meanwhile, the cops will be arresting people at a party who don't pay the utmost respect and homage to Bin Ladin
Walter Hinteler
 
  4  
Mon 29 May, 2017 11:17 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
And than their was the G7 summit, on the heels of that Merkel issued the already noted speech.
camlok
 
  0  
Mon 29 May, 2017 11:19 am
@layman,
Quote:
Britain has stood by and just watched as hundreds with British passports came back in after serving time with ISIS in Syria.

Now that ISIS is losing their caliphate in Syria


When a country commits the ultimate war crime, the illegal invasion of sovereign nations, ALL crimes that flow from that initial greatest of crimes, is the sole responsibility of the invading parties. That would be the US/UK/... .

This idea that I have described, layman, was established by the USA at the Nuremberg War Crimes Tribunals.

Stop making phony excuses. Be a man for once in your life and accept those responsibilities.
layman
 
  -4  
Mon 29 May, 2017 11:28 am
@camlok,
Quote:
Stop making phony excuses. Be a man for once in your life and accept those responsibilities.

Cammie boy, I'm sure you'll get a more sympathetic audience with your fellow-travelling commie-ass cheese-eater, Blather, than you will with me, eh, punk?

Easier to get "confirmation" from someone who already agrees with you, ya know?
camlok
 
  1  
Mon 29 May, 2017 11:37 am
@layman,
You folks who prance out these fables just love to create diversions when you catch yourself out, which is often, layman.

Obviously, you don't possess the honesty to admit you are wrong.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -2  
Mon 29 May, 2017 11:37 am
@Walter Hinteler,
I don't think I've seen much reporting on the G7 summit. It may have occurred while I was spending the entire day travelling back to the US.

What horrendous gaffes is Trump said to have committed during that meeting?
layman
 
  -3  
Mon 29 May, 2017 11:39 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:

What horrendous gaffes is Trump said to have committed during that meeting?


The worst of the worst, Finn. He refused to proclaim his devotion to the Paris climate accords, while the other 6 did.
camlok
 
  1  
Mon 29 May, 2017 11:41 am
@layman,
Quote:
The worst of the worst, Finn. He refused to proclaim his devotion to the Paris climate accords, while the other 6 did.


Yes, Trump is a science denier.

It's noted that you defend him, layman, even though he is a pathological liar.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -2  
Mon 29 May, 2017 12:05 pm
@layman,
Oh that's right. I did hear about that.

So now the US and Trump in particular are responsible for humanity's extinction.

I would think he must have had a reason. Any pundit, other than those who believe him to be evil and insane, offer an opinion?
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Mon 29 May, 2017 12:06 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Actually that summit was the reason for Merkel's reaction.
To sum it up (and as most papers here in Europe headlined it): the Taormina summit turned into the G6 against one.
Pretty close to a complet failure.

Trump did his best to isolate himself from the other G7 leaders (from Canada, Germany, the UK, France, Japan and Italy).

I think, they really thought it would work out ... with a compromise. But even that didn't happen.
The only agreement was on fighting terrorism and cyberterrorism.

Food security and climate change – no points to discuss for the USA.
Especially the Italian, bearing the brunt of the crisis that is sending hundreds of thousands of migrants and refugees to Italy from North Africa, had been promoting a food-security agenda.
Six of the G7 leaders reaffirmed their commitment to the Paris climate-change agreement. "Here we have a situation that six members, or seven if you want to add in the EU, stand against one." She added that “there are no indications whether the United States will stay in the Paris agreement or not.”


Merkel has never been a person who talked straight. [One of the many reasons, she always has been attacked by those opposing the conservatives.] This G7-summit really got to show a different, nearly unknown attitude of her. (And I fear, she'll be our next chancellor again.)

As someone said today: since 1945, the Russians are trying to drive a wedge between (Western) Europe and the USA - now Putin succeeded via Trump.
camlok
 
  0  
Mon 29 May, 2017 12:10 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
The only agreement was on fighting terrorism and cyberterrorism.


Still in LaLa Land I see.

Cyberterrorism and terrorism in general, is the NSA and the USA.
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  -2  
Mon 29 May, 2017 12:29 pm
@layman,
layman wrote:

Quote:
Weren't they, in fact, repeatedly paid hundreds of thousands of dollars for speeches, many by foreign groups?


No, not really. They weren't being paid for lame-ass speeches. They were paid to purchase the "influence" they were selling.

Sometimes that was "political influence" derived from holding government office.

Sometimes it was paid to "purchase" the distribution of some of the vast sums of cash the Clintons controlled via their "Clinton Foundation."

As their own manager said, it was a "business." Clinton, Inc.

But they claim, incredibly, that this was simply their going rate for lectures.
Brandon9000
 
  -2  
Mon 29 May, 2017 12:30 pm
@hightor,
hightor wrote:

Quote:
Does anyone here believe that two honest people could make $100 million in 15 years just by giving speeches?

What's your point?

Here we have two of the country's most scrutinized individuals, suspected by many of cashing in on their notoriety and influence and yet they haven't been formally accused of any crime, let alone indicted. Maybe they are being protected by some unseen network of supporters within the law enforcement community? Sounds a bit far-fetched. But what if they haven't actually committed any crimes but have benefited by a system which, if not technically corrupt, just happens to stink to high hell? How do you act "honestly" in a situation like that? What does "honesty" even mean in the higher echelons of the corporate/political establishment? Going after highly visible small fry like the Clintons may thrill vengeful conservatives but it will do little to halt the type of questionable behavior they opportunistically decry. You'd need legislation to enforce new, clear, strict ethics rules for former officeholders — and current officeholders are unlikely to do this because they believe they're entitled to some of that gold waiting for them at the end of the rainbow. "Hell, why do you think I ran for office in the first place?"

My point is that I'd like you to answer my question.
 

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