192
   

monitoring Trump and relevant contemporary events

 
 
layman
 
  -1  
Wed 24 May, 2017 01:52 pm
I saw where last night, when other networks had been reporting the "breaking news" about Manchester for well over an hour,, several cheese-eating outlets refused to interrupt, even for one second, their pre-planned programming devoted to accusing Trump of collusion and "cover-up" attempts.

Believe it or not, the average American citizen wants "news" from a news outlet, and can tell the difference between propaganda and actual news.

Perfectly understandable, of course. CNN, et al, make no attempt whatsoever to appeal to the "average american." They make their money by playing the cheese-eaters 24/7.
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  6  
Wed 24 May, 2017 02:01 pm
I get why Trump supporters are trying to belittle and downplay anything Russia related. Totally get it.

I'm curious though if they truly can't understand why democrats are making it a political issue. I mean, one has to understand the game that's being played, right?

When someone expresses shock that the left is making this such a big deal, they have to be joking right? Deep down they know why the left makes it a big deal....right?

They also have to truly understand that if Hillary had won and something like this came out against her, that they'd be doing the same thing right? I mean what was it, 9 Benghazi hearings plus a senator admitting that they only did the investigations to hurt her poll numbers.

Or am I assuming too much?
izzythepush
 
  2  
Wed 24 May, 2017 02:14 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

In January 2016 Trump said on FOX:
"You go to Brussels, I was in Brussels a long time ago, twenty years ago, so beautiful, and everything was so beautiful. It's like living in a hell hole right now."


He described Belgium as a "Beautiful City."
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -4  
Wed 24 May, 2017 02:15 pm
@maporsche,
maporsche wrote:
I'm a democrat. You aren't defending my freedom.

I defend your freedom every time I prevent the Democrats from violating the Second Amendment.
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blatham
 
  5  
Wed 24 May, 2017 02:20 pm
@georgeob1,
I'm going to end off after this. You continue to be careless in reading and then in thinking. I don't say that out of any malice at all. I'm fond of you but discussion, in the way you normally proceed, is mostly without profit.
Quote:
You missed my point. I was somewhat gently suggesting that your "study over many years" of political commentary has god you little beyond familiarity with the commentators themselves and the arguments they put forward in advancing their views.
"Political commentary" wasn't the subject. Political or news media was the subject. That"s a careless error.

But aside from that, your apparent notions regarding the valuelessness of "commentary" are incoherent. What is not commentary? Machiavelli is commentary as any history text is commentary. Any editorial is commentary. National Geographic is commentary. Tony Judt writes commentary. Anything you write here is commentary. Commentary is the vehicle by which we come to most of our understandings and ideas about the world. What's important is the quality of that commentary and the only way we gain a grasp of what constitutes quality in commentary is familiarity with lots of it.

Quote:
The US constitution was an example of improvement for one human society precisely because it favored limited government; local government over central ones; and contained a collection of checks and balances to preserve individual liberty precisely against government.
That is an ideological interpretation of the body and intent of the document. You speak as if that is the only possible reading and as there's no such agreement among scholars of the document (or within political science generally) your insistence and self-certainty isn't compelling.

Quote:
That's why free markets work better than planned and managed production and distribution systems
I really wish you'd knock off pushing this strawman, george. It's not a matter of either/or in the US or in any western or other successful and relatively free society. The US arrived at its status as wealthy and powerful riding on a political system that featured relatively free trade, robust regulation of trade and commerce and redistribution of wealth. That three-legged stool (augmented by civil and human rights values) has also been the vehicle upon which all western nations have reached their present status.

I'll end there.

0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  5  
Wed 24 May, 2017 02:20 pm
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:

maporsche wrote:
They also have to truly understand that if Hillary had won and something like this came out against her, that they'd be doing the same thing right?

If something this vague and unsubstantiated came out against a hypothetical President Hillary, the Republicans would treat it no more seriously than the Vince Foster conspiracy or the fuss over Obama's birth certificate.


So...pretty seriously then. I mean your leader didn't even acknowledge Obama's birth certificate until late last summer (only took him 7 years) and something like 45% of Republicans don't believe he's American and therefore not a legitimate president.

And the Tea Party is still publishing fake-news about it as recent as 3 weeks ago (https://www.teaparty.org/breaking-hawaii-official-drops-bombshell-obamas-birth-certificate-233108/)
maporsche
 
  4  
Wed 24 May, 2017 02:21 pm
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:

maporsche wrote:
I'm a democrat. You aren't defending my freedom.

I defend your freedom every time I prevent the Democrats from violating the Second Amendment.


I'm a democrat with 2 guns...never have I felt they were going anywhere.
blatham
 
  3  
Wed 24 May, 2017 02:21 pm
@Blickers,
Quote:
Does absolute proof need to be established before an investigation commences?

Don't think so. Otherwise there would be nobody in jail except the people who signed confessions.
That is the rather obvious point, isn't it.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  2  
Wed 24 May, 2017 02:23 pm
@Olivier5,
Yes.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  5  
Wed 24 May, 2017 02:26 pm
@maporsche,
maporsche wrote:
I get why Trump supporters are trying to belittle and downplay anything Russia related. Totally get it.
Why did Russia become such a big issue only after November? In part because of who won.
Quote:
[... ... ...]
The Russian meddling became a story that rose to national attention largely because, one can argue, it worked. That narrow margin of victory has been blamed on any number of things, from Comey’s last-minute announcement about Clinton’s email server to her campaign’s failure to adequately campaign in those same Midwestern states. But it was narrow enough that the Russian meddling may also have played a role, perhaps by souring supporters of Bernie Sanders against Clinton by releasing the DNC emails and perhaps by bolstering untrue or unflattering news about her as the campaign wound on.

Warning signs existed before Nov. 8. It’s not even clear that more forceful warnings before the election would have made any difference, because it’s hard to see how knowledge of what Russia was purportedly up to would have diminished or altered the effect. But: Trump wasn’t supposed to win. That he did and that he did so narrowly magnified all of the factors that went into his victory, including Russia’s role. That’s the key reason that the meddling question is more important now than it was then.

It’s a good reminder for the president: With the good often comes the bad.
blatham
 
  4  
Wed 24 May, 2017 02:27 pm
@maporsche,
Quote:
oralloy wrote:
If I had to describe my mindset I'd say I am livid. When I say we should try to outlaw the Democratic Party in America, I really do mean that as a serious proposal. Let's get rid of these scum once and for all.

I see no evidence that the right in the US is getting more extreme.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -3  
Wed 24 May, 2017 02:31 pm
@maporsche,
maporsche wrote:
So...pretty seriously then. I mean your leader didn't even acknowledge Obama's birth certificate until late last summer (only took him 7 years) and something like 45% of Republicans don't believe he's American and therefore not a legitimate president.

And the Tea Party is still publishing fake-news about it as recent as 3 weeks ago (https://www.teaparty.org/breaking-hawaii-official-drops-bombshell-obamas-birth-certificate-233108/)

No. Taking it seriously would be trying to remove a president from office over the matter.

Having fringe conspiracy nuts believe it while the rest of the country ignores them doesn't count as taking it seriously.

These attempts to justify "the Democrats' trying to remove a president on fraudulent charges" by suggesting that this behavior is somehow similar to "fringe Republicans believing in conspiracies while the nation ignores them" are preposterous.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  3  
Wed 24 May, 2017 02:33 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
The Russian meddling became a story that rose to national attention largely because, one can argue, it worked.
That's a smart point, Walter. I'm rather embarrassed that it hadn't really hit home until I read that sentence.
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blatham
 
  3  
Wed 24 May, 2017 02:44 pm
There's a very good piece at the New Yorker by John Cassidy
Quote:
DONALD TRUMP’S CRAVEN REPUBLICAN ENABLERS

...The official version of why Trump acted—that he had decided Comey’s handling of the Clinton investigation was botched—is risible. As a more convincing narrative emerges, we can only hope that enough Republicans find the conscience and guts to stand up to Trump and lay down a marker. If they don’t, the consequences could be catastrophic.
link here
This frightens me much more than Trump himself. Trump is temporary, probably very temporary given how much he's been screwing up in such a short period of time. But the rest of these guys are doing real damage to US democracy and civic life by dropping even much a pretense to principles. Yesterday or today, Ryan said he "doesn't agree" with Trump's opinion as voiced to the visiting Russians that Comey is a "nut case". That is as bold and morally principled as Ryan gets. McConnell is no better. This is what corruption looks like.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  3  
Wed 24 May, 2017 02:50 pm
Today's news winner in the It's A Small World category
Quote:
Fox News and Reuters report that U.S. President Donald Trump has retained New York-based trial attorney Marc Kasowitz to defend him in the escalating federal investigations involving Russia, espionage suspicions, and possible criminal activities.

Kasowitz has represented Trump for over 15 years, and is known as a litigator, not a criminal defense lawyer.

He currently also represents OJSC Sberbank of Russia, the nation's largest bank, which is charged in an open U.S. federal court case of conspiring with granite company executives and others to raid the assets of a competitor.
link here
blatham
 
  3  
Wed 24 May, 2017 02:53 pm
Like we didn't know
Quote:
Roughly 23 million more people would be uninsured over a decade if the House-passed Obamacare repeal bill becomes law, according to a highly anticipated CBO analysis that could complicate Senate Republicans' hopes of getting their own bill through the upper chamber.
Politico
Future Trump rally chant... "Let them die. Let them die."
0 Replies
 
ossobucotemp
 
  2  
Wed 24 May, 2017 02:56 pm
@blatham,
What a strange choice, but I'm not actually surprised.
blatham
 
  3  
Wed 24 May, 2017 03:03 pm
When standards reach the bottom of the barrel. Here's a contemporary headline from Politico
Quote:
Trump ditches his feud in gracious visit with the pope

First, that graciousness in a papal visit by a US president would even be noteworthy.

Second, that Politico would choose "gracious" as the word to put in that
headline. It's a bit like "Hell's Angels Ride Through Barstow and Demonstrating Good Manners Rape No Teenage Girls".
 

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