192
   

monitoring Trump and relevant contemporary events

 
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  0  
Wed 24 May, 2017 02:47 am
@layman,
Brennan is able to testify truthfully while still slinging unsubstantiated mud. Could he be more of a weasel?

The CIA, it is believed by virtually everyone in the Opposition, had intelligence telling them that Saddam had WMDs, but no evidence and as a result we launched an unnecessary war that led to thousands of lost American lives, but I'm quite sure they are ready, willing and able to 100% accept any intelligence that seems to hurt Trump.

If the CIA knows of contacts between the Trump campaign and Russia because of electronic surveillance then they have evidence. So either Brennan lied or his intelligence was built on information passed to agents by informants. If I was the Russian in charge of trying to create havoc within the US political system, I'm sure it would occur to me to feed the CIA false information about collusion between Russia and a campaign. I've no idea if this happened or not but I could go out in public and present it as if it were true and I'd be right there with all these other clowns.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  0  
Wed 24 May, 2017 02:53 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:


That's a bit of a stretch. If one were under investigation one would ask on what grounds, asking them to drop the investigation is something else entirely.


It is but that's not what the report even said. It alleges Trump asked the two officials to announce that there was no evidence of collusion.
izzythepush
 
  5  
Wed 24 May, 2017 05:16 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
So he's asking them to lie, or drop the investigation. You can't have it both ways, there's enough evidence, hearsay or circumstantial, to warrant an investigation and until the investigation is concluded they don't know.

What Trump did was highly questionable at the very least, then you add both his and Flynn's lies into the mix, Trump's cackhanded attempts to shut down the investigation, Comey's sacking, Flynn cowering behind the 5th amendment and Trump whining about being persecuted, you'd have to be lacking a sense of smell not to conclude that something stinks big time.
Olivier5
 
  2  
Wed 24 May, 2017 05:17 am
@layman,
These guys can't possibly be cheese eaters. Cheese is primarily a European product, a signpost for Western civilization, and most of it is white...
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  3  
Wed 24 May, 2017 06:32 am
@georgeob1,
Quote:
Quote:
blatham wrote:

This is interesting in two ways. First, you seem to have the notion in your noggin that though I have set to a study of media issues over many years that this study provides me with no greater benefits in understanding the subject than you have acquired with no such level of study.

Some learn a great deal from a little experience: others don't. Some experts in narrow fields are fools in others; others acquire more wisdom from the same effort.
That's simply a cop-out george. Some humans are born albino and some with three nipples but the next person to knock on your front door isn't going to be a three-nippled albino.

Quote:
I don't think that Fox news and Limbach's Radio show are in any way sufficient for the understanding of current affairs: neither are CNN and MSNBC.
Neither does anyone else. That's a truly careless phrasing of what is at issue. The point was specific - the coarsening of political/civic rhetoric. Joe McCarthy, for example, did not elevate political discussion. He degraded it.

Quote:
Well, I think you're on to something here, but you quickly flew off into hyperbole and absurdity. I think the U.S. Constitution was an act of some very wise men who understood the tumult of human affairs and deliberately created a government with the checks and balances needed to limit most excesses.
I suggested the US Constitution as an example of how human society can be improved - that progress can be made in human affairs. Your quote of the French cliche has no utility other than as a generalized dismissal of such progress, where you find it convenient. You aren't being wise. You're being lazy.

Quote:
I think that no one has as yet designed a universal "social safety net" that will work well under all conditions.
Well, no kidding. Nor have we developed medical treatments and compounds that will keep every alive forever.

Quote:
I believe that human nature is sufficiently complex and human behavior sufficiently adaptable to confound any system imposed to organize it in detail, and that very few of the designers of such systems , including "safety nets", foresee the side effects of what they create.
You've forwarded this argument before yet seem to have little grasp on how analytically valueless it is. Any human act or any developed policy will have unintended and unforseeable consequences. Likewise, the absence of any act or policy will also have such consequences.

izzythepush
 
  3  
Wed 24 May, 2017 06:39 am
Giving out classified information without permission seems to be catching.

Quote:
Home Secretary Amber Rudd has said she is irritated with the US for releasing information about the Manchester bomber before UK police would have liked.

Ms Rudd said the British had wanted to control the flow of information to "keep the element of surprise".

She told BBC Radio 4's Today programme she had been very clear with Washington "that it should not happen again".


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-40026413
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  3  
Wed 24 May, 2017 06:40 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
That's all very speculative and smokey. Who cares what you are "quite sure of"? Facts matter more than your wild guesses about "the Opposition"...
blatham
 
  2  
Wed 24 May, 2017 06:43 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
Trump says he never told the Russians classified intelligence came from Israel
Quote:
“Just so you understand, I never mentioned the word or the name Israel,” Trump told reporters. “Never mentioned it during that conversation. They're all saying I did, so you have another story wrong. Never mentioned the word Israel.”
Years ago, I observed that George W Bush and Obama both spoke to interviewers and audiences with the presumption that the listener(s) were as intelligent (thoughtful, educated) as they were.

With Trump, the same holds true except that he is both a narcissist and a conman so he cannot face or admit (or grasp) that he's as incredibly uninformed as he is and he presumes (as remedy for whatever insecurities he developed) that he's smarter or more wily than everyone else. It's a pretty perfect recipe for ******* up in all the ways he fucks up every day.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Wed 24 May, 2017 06:46 am
@snood,
Yeah. It's scary.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  2  
Wed 24 May, 2017 06:48 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
(President Donald Trump's) Director of National Intelligence Dan Coats said Russia is employing similar tactics attempting to influence elections in Europe to those it used to influence the 2016 U.S. election, today at the Capitol.
No kidding, Dan.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  2  
Wed 24 May, 2017 06:54 am
@ehBeth,
Quote:
they missed the bit about 45 telling Israelis that he had recently been in the Middle East
In our nightmares, we wondered what a Palin administration might look like. Now we know.
blatham
 
  2  
Wed 24 May, 2017 07:05 am
NYT has a piece up demonstrating how much ice has melted from the glaciers at Glacier National Park between 1966 and 2015. Not comforting.
HERE
0 Replies
 
revelette1
 
  2  
Wed 24 May, 2017 07:05 am
Quote:
CIA director alerted FBI to pattern of contacts between Russian officials and Trump campaign associates

The CIA alerted the FBI to a troubling pattern of contacts between Russian officials and associates of the Trump campaign last year, former agency director John Brennan testified on Tuesday, shedding new light on the origin of a criminal probe that now reaches into the White House.

In testimony before the House Intelligence Committee, Brennan said he became increasingly concerned that Trump associates were being manipulated by Russian intelligence services as part of a broader covert influence campaign that sought to disrupt the election and deliver the presidency to Donald Trump.

“I was worried by a number of the contacts that the Russians had with U.S. persons,” Brennan said, adding that he did not see proof of collusion before he left office on Jan. 20, but “felt as though the FBI investigation was certainly well-founded and needed to look into those issues.”

Brennan’s remarks represent the most detailed public accounting to date of his tenure as CIA director during the alleged Russian assault on the U.S. presidential race, and the agency’s role in triggering an FBI probe that Trump has sought to contain.

“It should be clear to everyone that Russia brazenly interfered in our 2016 presidential election process,” Brennan said at one point, one of several moments in which his words seemed aimed squarely at the president.

Trump has refused to fully accept the unanimous conclusion of U.S. intelligence agencies that Russia stole thousands of sensitive emails, orchestrated online dumps of damaging information and employed fake news and other means to upend the 2016 race.

GOP lawmakers spent much of Tuesday’s hearing trying to get Brennan to concede that he had no conclusive evidence of collusion between the Trump campaign and Moscow. Brennan acknowledged that he still had “unresolved questions” about the purpose of those contacts when he stepped down as CIA director in January.

But, “I know what the Russians try to do,” Brennan said. “They try to suborn individuals and they try to get individuals, including U.S. persons, to act on their behalf either wittingly or unwittingly.”

Brennan refused to name any of the U.S. individuals who were apparently detected communicating with Russian officials. The FBI investigation, which began last July, has scrutinized Trump associates including Paul Manafort, Trump’s former campaign manager; Carter Page, who was once listed as a foreign policy adviser to Trump; and former national security adviser Michael Flynn, who was forced to resign after misleading statements about his contacts with the Russian ambassador were exposed.

The probe has intensified in recent weeks and identified a current White House official as a significant person of interest.

Because Russia uses intermediaries and other measures to disguise its hand, “many times, [U.S. individuals] do not know that the individual they are interacting with is a Russian,” Brennan said.

He added that Russian agencies routinely seek to gather compromising information, or “kompromat,” to coerce treason from U.S. officials who “do not even realize they are on that path until it gets too late.” The remark appeared to be in reference to Flynn.

The Senate Intelligence Committee is issuing two new subpoenas for information from Flynn’s companies and challenging his lawyer’s refusal to comply with an existing subpoena for documents detailing his contacts with Russian officials, committee leaders announced Tuesday.

“A business does not have the right to take the Fifth,” Sen. Mark R. Warner (Va.), the committee’s lead Democrat, told reporters as he and Chairman Richard Burr (R-N.C.) pledged to “keep all options on the table.”

Brennan was also asked about Trump’s disclosure of highly classified information to the Russian foreign minister and ambassador in a White House meeting this month. Brennan said that the CIA at times provided tips about terrorist plots to the Kremlin, but he indicated that Trump violated key protocols.

Sensitive information should only be passed through intelligence services, not divulged to foreign ministers or ambassadors, Brennan said. Referring to the information revealed by Trump, Brennan said it had neither gone through “the proper channels nor did the originating agency have the opportunity to clear language for it.”


WP
blatham
 
  3  
Wed 24 May, 2017 07:13 am
@revelette1,
Somebody above (Finn?) thought to cast our minds back to the WOMD in Iraq blunder. Thus, how dependable are those guys?

But if we wish to reflect on that period, we really ought to recall that it was Cheney's office that was driving intel to reach conclusions Cheney's office wanted. They were the source of this incredible screwup because they wanted that war.
maporsche
 
  4  
Wed 24 May, 2017 07:19 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
When you mention 'proportion' in your original post, what do you mean?
0 Replies
 
revelette1
 
  4  
Wed 24 May, 2017 07:28 am
@blatham,
Simple desperation on the part of Finn and others, I have been trying to ignore it. Cheney cherry picked intel to go with the conclusion they wanted. They were going to Iraq no matter what else. 9/11 merely put a crimp in their plans and didn't provide enough "targets." It did serve to get everybody in the proper frame of mind and that administration took full advantage of it.
blatham
 
  3  
Wed 24 May, 2017 07:38 am
Re the coarsening of political discourse in the US and Fox as a key factor in this...
Quote:
Some Fox News employees said this week that they had been angered by Mr. Hannity’s continuing broadcasts about the Rich theory, calling it an embarrassment to the network’s journalists.

Other employees expressed shock that the network was willing to retract the story at all. Under Roger E. Ailes, its pugnacious former chairman, who died last week, Fox News followed a mantra of “never apologize,” weathering all manner of controversies over its coverage. But since Mr. Ailes’s exit amid a sexual harassment scandal, the network has been more willing to admit error.
NYTObviously, getting to the truth of things is not going to be either the goal or the result if the or a prime operating principle is never apologize, never admit error. But getting to the truth of things was never Fox's goal and certainly not Ailes' goal. Limbaugh operates in precisely the same manner. If he confesses to getting something wrong, 9 times out of 10, he'll say something like, "I have to confess here that I got it wrong. The Democrats are worse than I thought".

But the pursuit of truth and facts was never their goal. They are propagandists. It's a different game altogether.
blatham
 
  3  
Wed 24 May, 2017 07:40 am
@revelette1,
Yup. You got it.
blatham
 
  3  
Wed 24 May, 2017 07:50 am
I don't think anyone mentioned yesterday's release of the transcript of Trump's phone call with Duterte where Trump congratulated him on the great work he was doing re the drug problem.

Trump is congratulating a guy who's an admitted murderer and at whose instructions, the police have murders thousands of drug users. Trump is congratulating a guy who compared his project favorably with what Hitler did re Jews.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  2  
Wed 24 May, 2017 07:53 am
The New Yorker has a really great piece up on Sally Yates. Longish but well worth your time. http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/05/29/why-sally-yates-stood-up-to-trump
0 Replies
 
 

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