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I'm off to watch the debate

 
 
Montana
 
Reply Tue 5 Oct, 2004 06:54 pm
Feel free to add your thoughts when it's over. I have a feeling I'm going to have some laughs.

Happy debate everyone :-D
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 2,450 • Replies: 64
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Oct, 2004 06:55 pm
Me too! Just hanging out waiting for it to start. I've got some butterflies.

Sic 'im, John-boy!
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littlek
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Oct, 2004 06:56 pm
Me three!
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gustavratzenhofer
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Oct, 2004 07:00 pm
As am I.

(and think about that proposal, littlk)
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RfromP
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Oct, 2004 07:31 pm
So far Cheney is sounding like a broken record. It's getting annoying.
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Oct, 2004 07:33 pm
nimh wrote:
OK, now I've logged in to c-span after all, looking at the debate.

Cheney is pretty good.

The exchange where Cheney rattles through a whole list of detailed fact-checking on the numbers Edwards was using (90% of the casualties, 90% of the costs e.a.), and Edwards in response went through 90 seconds of mere abstract rhetorics, was pretty devastating.

Edwards has the annoying habit of rushing through a list of arguments / allegations. Cheney then focuses on responding to one of them, but does so in-depth, ending up looking like he's effectively rebutted the allegation, even though he only addressed one. In response, Edwards, instead of rebutting the rebuttal, then rushes on to another series of items. Doesnt work.
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Oct, 2004 07:42 pm
Yeah, I'm really gettin' impatient with our man. Don't you see, John, that if Cheney takes his time to "rebut" an issue in seeming detail and you then in reply rush on to the next allegation, it looks like you've acceded this one to him? Like you're running?

Cheney really knows how to use that no-nonsense-just-matter-of-fact tone of voice, even when he's putting out sheer spin. In response, Edwards sounds a bit exasperated, and who wouldn't be? But it does mean he is now the one sounding more insistent, almost shrill, instead of like the more palatable alternative.

<grumbles>
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padmasambava
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Oct, 2004 07:47 pm
I hope Cheney's wearing his depends.
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Oct, 2004 07:51 pm
Whew, there finally he scored. When Cheney played "stern schoolmaster", deriding Edwards for missing his votes - "now I am the president of the senate, and the first time I've seen you was on this platform here tonight" - that was pretty strong. But Edwards did well in response, by ticking off an unbelievable list of Cheney votes, on everything from ML King and Nelson Mandela to Head Start and Meals on Wheels - like, can you believe that? Which was exactly the effect he was going for of course - Cheney the extremist.

He should at least have gotten a draw out of that particular exchange - plus probably a point among black voters (of whom Kerry has lost 10% in the polls the last month).
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RfromP
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Oct, 2004 08:06 pm
That was funny. When asked what Cheney would do to help the people of Cleveland because of the poverty level, Cheney response was to improve elementary education. That was his answer, the complete answer, to improve elementary education.

What use is a good education if there isn't a job to apply that education?
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Oct, 2004 08:16 pm
Who's that moderator?

(I don't like her ...)
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RfromP
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Oct, 2004 08:23 pm
nimh wrote:
Who's that moderator?

(I don't like her ...)
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kickycan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Oct, 2004 08:28 pm
Boy this Edwards guy is a bozo, huh. He's almost as bad a debater as Bush. I think they should have had a debate between Kerry and Cheney. That would be interesting, seeing the challenger actually debate the guy who's running the country.
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Oct, 2004 08:31 pm
Cheney is, how was it, "Wiping the floor"? with Edwards...
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DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Oct, 2004 08:33 pm
quick break, the wife just got home...

cheney parroted party talking points, edwards took a little time to warm up.

cheney starting to do his "leaning on the desk with head pressed to folded hands, no, i won't look you in the eye" thing.

nimh. i understand what you mean about edwards. but i think it is important to open the door on things and then come back to them when the question comes up.

sounds crazy and scattered, but i've successfully used it in deal negotiations for over a decade. works especially well with those that only want to pound away on their "preconceived conversation" with you.

hope it works for edwards as well as it has for me.
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dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Oct, 2004 08:39 pm
what should have been a bar-room brawl turned out to be a linen and lace afternoon tea.
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Oct, 2004 08:43 pm
Huh.

I was underwhelmed.

Totally agree with nimh about missed opportunities. I'd see Cheney say something, think of a response myself, wait for Edwwards to pounce, no, no, SAY IT, no, the damn light is going off, there he kinda said it at the end.

Hmph.

What I just said to E.G. is that I can't tell if he came across as charming or slick.

Linkat? You out there?
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Oct, 2004 08:44 pm
That said, I don't think Cheney was that great, either. Edwards scored points off of him a few times (I should've taken notes, will refresh my memory with transcript tomorrow.) I was just hoping for a knockout punch, and, well, linen and lace. Yeah.
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RfromP
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Oct, 2004 08:46 pm
What a weird question. The moderator asked, "what should the government's role be in helping to end the growth of this epidemic", in regards to black females between the ages of 25 & 44 being 13 times more likely to die of aids than their counterparts.

This disease is not a communicable airborne disease, it's not like tuberculosis. The way this disease is transmitted most often by having unprotected sex. Why should the government do anything? If someone choses to have unprotected sex then the consequences are their own responsibility, not the government's.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Oct, 2004 08:47 pm
Well, that one is more complicated, has to do with black men "on the down low" (in the closet), education, blahbedy blah. But yeah.
0 Replies
 
 

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