20
   

FBI reopens case on Clinton private email server

 
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Nov, 2016 06:26 am
@georgeob1,
Quote:
Lash posted an opinion piece from an obviously biased source which I believe she accurately acknowledged.

She did not. She made no mention of the relationship between the Observer and the Trump family. It was ehBeth, in response, who did.

Quote:
You do exactly the same here very frequently, but from differently biased sources...

"Exactly the same" would be a quote/link from me to a media entity owned by Chelsea Clinton's husband.

Quote:
...but from differently biased sources. None of these things could be described as scholarly

I've invited you previously to unmuddle your thinking about bias. It's an invitation you haven't accepted. All voices have bias. That's inevitable. And therefore, by itself, the point or charge is irrelevant. A comment or "analysis" on the US Navy or the history of the classical period of Rome from Sarah Palin does not merit attention equal to the same from you. A judge in a courtroom during a murder trial properly does not equally weight the testimony of a witness to the event and the testimony of the defendant's mother who lives in Europe.

You've possibly noticed that just above, I've quoted David Frum. And in my next post, I'm quoting Michael Gerson. You can hold whatever notions you find convenient re the value of what I toss in here in aid of a more complete understanding of present political circumstances but I find no reason advanced from you that compels me to change what I do.
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Nov, 2016 06:28 am
This from GWB speech writer Michael Gerson.
Quote:
I own up to being even more emotionally entangled in the result of the 2016 election — not because of any change in policy or ideology, but because of Donald Trump’s proposed shift in the very purpose of the presidency. His political theory, such as it is, is “us” vs. “them.” The “them” may be Republican elites, or liberal elites, or migrants or Mexicans or Muslims. Trump would be elected on the promise of fighting, rounding up, jailing or humbling any number of personal and political opponents. Take away this appeal, and there is nothing left but grasping, pathetic vanity.

...The single most frightening, anti-democratic phrase of modern presidential history came in Trump’s convention speech: “I alone can fix it.” A Trump victory would be a mandate for authoritarian politics. Trump’s ambitions would be bounded by strong legislative and legal institutions and by his own risible ignorance of real leadership. But a Trump administration would be a concession to the idea that America needs a little more China, a little more Russia, a little more “so let it be written, so let it be done” in its executive branch.

I never imagined that Republican leaders — many of whom I know and have respected — would fall in line with such dangerous delusions, on the theory that anything is better than Hillary Clinton. Most options are better than Clinton. But not all. And not this. The GOP has largely accommodated itself to a candidate with no respect for, or knowledge of, the constitutional order. Every constitutional conservative should be revolted. Those who are complicit have adopted a particularly dangerous form of power-loving hypocrisy.
http://wapo.st/2eGvnvx
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  3  
Reply Fri 4 Nov, 2016 06:29 am
@blatham,
They're ALL owned by the Clintons--as have been proven with personal emails from media writers, getting Clinton approval for their stories; Clinton and Podesta emails discussing which media writers will write puff pieces for them...

You can't hide from it anymore.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  3  
Reply Fri 4 Nov, 2016 06:43 am
@giujohn,
Quote:
Let's be clear here the FBI has stated that Hillary's server was exposed to at least 5 foreign National security agencies.

Let's be clear here. The FBI has said no such thing. RW news sources quoting anonymous sources are saying that.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Nov, 2016 07:12 am
Truth does not matter. Facts do not matter. Purposeful misinformation that leads citizens to incorrect conclusions does not matter. All that matters for the modern GOP is creating political damage to the end of broad political power in America. All that matters is ensuring that one and only one political ideology reigns in America because no others are legitimate.

Here is Kellyanne Conway's response to a question on whether Trump will correct his earlier falsehood that an indictment of Clinton was likely:
On MSNBC, Williams noted that falsely claiming that a political opponent will face indictment misleads voters.
Quote:
“As a lawyer, you would concede indictment is not only a term of art, it's a term of law and that's a big difference to use the expression likely indictment when all the reporting is to the contrary,” he said.

“Fine,” Conway replied. “It just doesn't change what's in voters' minds right now and you see in the your own polling, you see in the other polling, Brian, which is—even though the polls were tightening before last Friday's explosive announcement by Mr. Comey you see that voters are putting it in this large cauldron of impressions and images and individuals and issues from which they eventually make a choice.”
http://bit.ly/2eGCMLG

And here's Renee Ellmers pushing the same falsehood. The last sentence gives her "rationale" for pushing this as a "truth"
Quote:
Despite a lack of evidence, Rep. Renee Ellmers (R-NC) on Friday insisted that Hillary Clinton was facing indictment because “she’s hearing about it.”

Ellmers, a Donald Trump surrogate and the first congressional candidate endorsed by the Republican nominee, was interviewed about FBI investigations into Clinton’s private email server and the Clinton Foundation on CNN’s “New Day.”

“She is under—facing indictment,” Ellmers told host Chris Cuomo. “We’re in a situation where the Clinton Foundation—”

“No proof she's facing indictment,” Cuomo replied.

“There is proof,” she insisted.

“There isn't any proof,” Cuomo pushed back.

“There is.”

“What's the proof?” he asked.

“The proof is the FBI investigators,” Ellmers said. “This is coming out everywhere. I'm hearing about it. I don't really have all that many connections and yet I'm hearing about the investigation.”
http://bit.ly/2eGDVCL

0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Nov, 2016 07:29 am
If you are going to read anything today, make it this piece from Jon Chait


Quote:
More recently, another belief of mine has fallen by the wayside: that even if Trump managed to eke out a majority of delegates, the Republican elite would simply never give him the cooperation he would need to win. I suspected simple self-interest would dictate this. Trump is poison to the constituencies Republicans will need to win to stay viable in the long run, and allowing the party to be associated with him will have long-term costs. What’s more, a Trump presidency would likely court catastrophic blowback for the party. Not to mention, I assumed a significant number of Republicans, whatever their substantive policy disagreements with liberals, would recoil from Trump out of sincere loyalty to the Republican form of government. And some conservatives have. A handful of elected Republicans, like Ben Sasse, have withheld endorsements. Conservatives like Ross Douthat and David Frum (“The vote you cast is for the republic and the Constitution”) have defended a vote for Clinton as essential to preserve the sanctity of the democratic system from an American Putin.

But these holdouts are the rare exceptions — far more rare than I anticipated. However low my opinion of the Republican Party, it was not low enough. Mostly they have shuffled along or beavered away on Trump’s behalf as though everything is normal. The political apparatus of the Republican Party will not stop him.

...This is not a joke. This is one of the moments in history when the republic is at the brink.
http://nym.ag/2eGDUyN
Brand X
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 4 Nov, 2016 07:33 am
Trump is a third Party candidate.
revelette2
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Nov, 2016 07:37 am
@blatham,
Apparently he hired a data firm to which tracks US citizens habits and subscriptions to see how they would vote.

Trump Campaign Pays Millions to Overseas Data Firm

Quote:
LONDON — Big data crunched in a nondescript office more than 3,000 miles from the U.S. might just convince you to cast a ballot for Donald Trump.

In September alone, the Trump campaign paid British firm Cambridge Analytica $5 million to help target voters.

The company says it holds data on 230 million adults across the U.S. — and around 4,000 "data points" on each of them.

Using transaction information from loyalty cards, club and gym memberships and charity donations, it seeks to understand which way an individual might lean politically — and how to potentially change their mind.

"The more you know about someone, the better you can engage with them and the more relevant you can make the communications that you send to them, so our job is to use data to understand audiences," chief executive officer Alexander Nix told NBC News.


The rest at the source. So I guess he took all that information and blew it up times ten.
0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Nov, 2016 07:38 am
@Brand X,
Who was a elected on the republican ticket by republicans.
maxdancona
 
  3  
Reply Fri 4 Nov, 2016 07:42 am
@Brand X,
Trump is the Republican candidate, nominated by the Republican Party to represent them.

I don't think you are saying that the Republican Party is a third party. I would like if that were true... but as of now it is still wishful thinking.
0 Replies
 
Brand X
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Nov, 2016 07:42 am
@revelette2,
Duh.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  0  
Reply Fri 4 Nov, 2016 07:48 am
@Brand X,
You're right. I knew he was a protest candidate, but when you factor in the exodus of the base and an influx of non-traditional voters in a republican race, I think you're right. There's been a significant realignment of so-called parties.

Establishment types have amalgamated behind the neoliberal. Pissed people have shaken out behind Trump and the traditional third parties.

Wtf will we be left with?
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Nov, 2016 08:47 am
I either did not know or had forgotten that during the Watergate scandal, FBI chief Gray kept the Nixon White House informed as to the FBI's investigations. Why? He supported Nixon.
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Nov, 2016 10:48 am
@blatham,
I'm not aware of the backgrounf for you assertion above about the FBI and Nizon, and note you have provided no factual basis for it. However, I'll accept is true for the discussion. Do you have any doubt that Attorney Genberal Lynch is also keeping President Obama (and likely the Clinton's as well) well informed about the ongoing FBI investigations today?

When Bill Clinton and AG Lynch found themselves "to their mutual surprise" in their private aircraft (hers was a government aircraft) nearby on the tarmac of the Phoenix Airport, and met for 40 minutes or so 'discussing their grandchildren' , were you at all suspicious that there might be more involved than was disclosed? Within days the FBI hastily conducted a long overdue interview of Hillary and wrapped up it's ongoing investigation of her mails. Any likely connection here, in your view??

Government records show that Lynch was on a flight from Washington DC to Aspen CO. at the time. It doesn't take much geographical kinowledge to determine that Phoenix is not on or near the great circle route to Aspen: indeed it is well beyond it.
snood
 
  5  
Reply Sun 6 Nov, 2016 10:50 am
Bill Clinton cheats on his wife. Impeach him. Trump proudly brags about sexual assault (and has cheated on his wives). Elect him. Hillary oversaw the department of state while 4 people died in an embassy attack. Put her in jail. 2 Republicans were in office while over 200 people died in embassy attacks. No problem.

Trump made 4 billion dollars in 40 years, when an index fund started at the same time with the same “small loans” he received would be worth $12 billion today… without a trail of bankruptcies, thousands of lawsuits and burned small business owners. He’s a real business whiz. Hillary took a loss of $700,000. She’s a criminal. Trump is the first candidate in the modern era not to release his tax returns, and took a billion dollar loss in 1 year. Genius.

Hillary takes responsibility for private email servers and apologizes. Not credible. Trump denies saying things (on the record) he actually said (on the record), he’s just telling it like it is.

Immigrants don’t pay taxes. Round them up and kick them out. Trump doesn’t pay taxes. He’s a business genius. Hillary’s foundation only spent 87% of their donations helping people. She’s a crook. Trump’s foundation paid off his debts, bought sculptures of him, and made political donations to avoid investigations while using less than 5% of funds for charity (and he got shut down by NY State). So savvy… Put him in the White House.
Your arguments are thin. Your ignorance of reality is shocking. Your double-standards are offensive, and your willingness to blindly support him and recycle the rhetoric is absurd. Your opinion is not fact. Your memes are not news articles. And your hypocrisy is not a platform.

http://gregproops.tumblr.com/post/151839708857/bill-clinton-cheats-on-his-wife-impeach-him
ehBeth
 
  2  
Reply Sun 6 Nov, 2016 10:56 am
@Brand X,
Mr. Trump is the Republican candidate, selected by Republicans in Republican primaries. The few identifiable policy pieces he has are Republican. He's brought a few ugly truths about modern Republicans into view - and that's good. People should own who they are supporting/voting for.
snood
 
  2  
Reply Sun 6 Nov, 2016 11:07 am
@ehBeth,
ehBeth wrote:

Mr. Trump is the Republican candidate, selected by Republicans in Republican primaries. The few identifiable policy pieces he has are Republican. He's brought a few ugly truths about modern Republicans into view - and that's good. People should own who they are supporting/voting for.


Yeah, that ownership piece is very important. And people on the left should face something too. When I see all these Hillary campaign commercials tsk-tsking what an uncouth and ignorant bastard Trump is, I can't help but think they are missing the point. All that uncouth foul bluster is what they LIKE about the orange blight. They think it makes him a cool guy - they look up to him not in SPITE of his ugliness - but because of it.
ehBeth
 
  3  
Reply Sun 6 Nov, 2016 11:30 am
@snood,
listened to an interesting political panel this morning (will track down link I sent blatham earlier)

the bottom line message was

https://scontent-yyz1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14907238_10154208963405787_2895948252016079182_n.jpg?oh=cd0414af84b265503416dc9416359092&oe=589D0EFE

the Republican party has to deal with these voters and their revealed expectations
ehBeth
 
  2  
Reply Sun 6 Nov, 2016 11:35 am
@ehBeth,
Sunday November 06, 2016
Will American politics survive Trump?


longish podcast ( a little over half an hour)

Quote:
Sunday November 06, 2016
Will American politics survive Trump?

When Hillary Clinton made clear her intentions to run for US President, everyone knew this could be a historic election…one in which a woman could be elected to the Oval Office for the first time.

We had no idea how historic or unprecedented this election would become.

We had no idea that so many norms, conventions and codes of conduct — the very things that uphold the fairness, dignity and civility of political campaigns — would be thrown out the window.

We had no idea how much anger there was on the right — and also the left — just waiting to boil over and scald the political establishment.


The votes will be counted Tuesday night, but we still have no idea if by Wednesday morning, we'll have a clear winner, let alone an uncontested winner. And we have no idea when — or if — things will return to some kind of normal in the American polity.

Our panellists are:

Patricia Williams, professor of law at Columbia University and author of The Alchemy of Race and Rights, and Seeing a ColorBlind Future: The Paradox of Race.

David Frum, senior editor of The Atlantic Monthly magazine, and former George W. Bush speech-writer

Moustafa Bayoumi, associate professor of English at Brooklyn College, and author of How Does It Feel to Be a Problem: Being Young and Arab in America and This Muslim American Life: Dispatches from the War on Terror.


blatham and I don't agree on everything but I think we agree Patricia Williams is worth listening to

it was a terrific discussion
blatham
 
  2  
Reply Sun 6 Nov, 2016 12:05 pm
@georgeob1,
I heard this today from CBC radio's Michael Enright. I then checked the wikipedia page on Gray. I could have dug deeper but don't have time right now. Here's a passage:

Quote:
While not active in any Watergate activities per se, Gray was aware through his dealings with John Dean that the White House was concerned about what might be discovered from a full-field FBI investigation and explored what he could do to limit the investigation or shift it away from the Bureau’s jurisdiction.[15] As Dean wrote in his Watergate memoir “Blind Ambition,” he used Gray as a shill knowing that “we could count on Pat Gray to keep the Hunt material from becoming public, and he did not disappoint us. In fact, even though he thought of this as a political not criminal situation and that he was ultimately serving the President as the “nation’s chief law enforcement officer,” Gray would come dangerously close to collusion because he chose to be useful to the White House without asking the hard questions. Dean goes on to say, “I met Pat Gray secretly at his home in southwest Washington. We were both apprehensive about the meeting as we walked to a park and sat down on a bench overlooking the Potomac, discussing my request to obtain FBI 302s and AirTels on the Watergate investigation."[16]

Later, when the missing Hunt material came to light, Gray reportedly said to Dean, “Goddammit John. You have got to hang tight. Who else knows about it?” [17] By early July 1972, however, Gray had an alarming picture of the apparent conspiracy as conveyed to him by Vernon Walters and he changed tack. Although he arguably should have made it his business to know before helping Dean in any way, once he did know for certain that the White House was somehow involved, he was no longer a predictable and reliable ally they could count on.


Quote:
Do you have any doubt that Attorney Genberal Lynch is also keeping President Obama (and likely the Clinton's as well) well informed about the ongoing FBI investigations today?

When you find evidence of such a thing, I'll be willing to discuss it with you. Otherwise, it's nothing.

Quote:
When Bill Clinton and AG Lynch found themselves "to their mutual surprise" in their private aircraft (hers was a government aircraft) nearby on the tarmac of the Phoenix Airport, and met for 40 minutes or so 'discussing their grandchildren' , were you at all suspicious that there might be more involved than was disclosed?

More nothing. You suppose, along with a whole cadre of right wing audience members, that the Clinton's are so corrupt that any such charge is surely or at least probably true. You've lost the ability to discern innuendo and smear from known facts. It's not just lazy, it's dangerous.
0 Replies
 
 

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