11
   

These are the FACTS, do you contest them?

 
 
McGentrix
 
  0  
Reply Wed 12 Oct, 2016 10:56 pm
@joefromchicago,
Yep. People out of the labor force. It does include people 15 and older, so not counting children younger than 15.

If you look at the research you will see that:
Quote:
Despite the similar trends in youth, prime-age and pre-retirement participation rates, the U.S. is the only country[...]experiencing a recent decline in the aggregate labor force participation rate. This is explained mostly by a larger-than-average drop in the labor force participation of prime-age males, a decrease in the participation of prime-age women and a lower-than-average increase in the participation of pre-retirement-age workers in the U.S. economy. Aging also played a role, as the share of the population between ages 25 to 54 (the group with the highest level of labor force participation) experienced a larger-than-average drop.


This is evidence that suggests it is not simply a result of demographics. Good enough?
Setanta
 
  3  
Reply Thu 13 Oct, 2016 12:55 am
All of the economic blather here ignores the FACT (i guess we're supposed to capitalize that in this thread) that the subprime mortgage crisis which caused all of the economic woes took place in December, 2007--almost a year before Mr. Obama was elected, and more than a year before he took office. Can someone explain to me how Mrs. Clinton is responsible for the economy under Mr. Obama's administration? Can someone explain to me how Mrs. Clinton is responsible for this sterling example of the cluelessness of the all hat-no cattle stumblebum on whose watch the subprime mortgage crisis did take place?

It is interesting how the author here seems to think that taking pot shots at Mr. Obama's alleged economic failings and his alleged failings in Iraq (which was also a fiasco by the Shrub) is a good argument against electing Clinton.

By the way, Islamic State in Iraq announced its own founding in October, 2006, more than two years before Mr. Obama was elected. And that is a FACT.
joefromchicago
 
  3  
Reply Thu 13 Oct, 2016 05:50 am
@McGentrix,
McGentrix wrote:
This is evidence that suggests it is not simply a result of demographics. Good enough?

That's fine. As the website says, it's complicated:

the St. Louis Federal Reserve Bank wrote:
This trend is the result of many forces, some of them in opposition to each other. For example, male participation in the labor market has been steadily decreasing, while female participation increased drastically until 2000. In addition, the aging workforce and increasing number of youth pursuing higher education are also often cited as reasons for the recent decline in aggregate U.S. labor force participation.

So the question is: which part of this is Obama's fault? Is he responsible for workers aging faster? Do you blame him for young adults going to college? And the decline has been going on since approximately 1965. So was Obama responsible for that as well? That would be a neat trick, of course, given that he was a four-year-old in Kenya at the time, but I suppose anything is possible.
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Oct, 2016 06:12 am
@joefromchicago,
He is responsible for making policies and regulations that stifle economic development. Companies have stopped growing as a result of Obamacare and started hiring part-time instead of full time workers. His "shovel ready" jobs program was an utter failure. These and other programs that Obama sponsored have hurt the American economy.

Do you really not know this stuff?
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Oct, 2016 06:13 am
@Setanta,
It's because she tauts herself as a continuation of the Obama Presidency to court the black vote. A "third term" if you will. So, if she is going to try to be Obama, we should be looking at Obama's failings.
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Thu 13 Oct, 2016 06:19 am
@McGentrix,
Quote:
So, if she is going to try to be Obama, we should be looking at Obama's failings.


... and we should look at Obama's successes too, right?

Well, McGentrix, I think you did a good job sucking people into an argument that you defined. You got people to argue with your cherry picked facts.

It doesn't change the fact that more Americans than not Obama is doing a good job. That includes me. If I cherry picked the facts about how good Obama's presidency has been, this would be a very different discussion.

But it doesn't matter. When your presidential candidate has to go on CNN with less than a month before election day to announce that he didn't walk in on naked 15 year olds, he isn't going to win.

If you want to beat Hillary in 2020, you are going to have to find a real presidential nominee.
woiyo
 
  0  
Reply Thu 13 Oct, 2016 06:20 am
@McGentrix,
So no one is disputing or contesting the facts, just whining that the facts exist.

No one can dispute the fact that the political establishment, mainly the democratic party machine, has already crowned the mannequin Hillary as the next president as evidenced by the fact that their operatives in the media (See CNN and Donna Brasile giving Clinton questions in advance) ignoring the recent unethical (and borderline criminal) behavior of Clinton and only reporting on 20 year old conversations Trump had.

There is no point in attempting to argue these facts with those who want to be sheep in the mannequin Hillary society. They will ignore them or just blame Bush (can we say that word?)
McGentrix
 
  2  
Reply Thu 13 Oct, 2016 06:21 am
@maxdancona,
They are only cherry picked because they are true and demonstrate what a failure Obama has been.

If you'd like to cherry pick some of his successes on another thread I am sure the lick spittle groupies will give you all kinds of kudo's and pats on the back about what a fine upstanding citizen you are.
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Oct, 2016 06:26 am
@joefromchicago,
Is it Blickers that loves graphs?

https://www.stlouisfed.org/~/media/Blog/2015/June/BlogImage_LFPMale25-54_063015.jpg?la=en

Why did participation rates of 25-54 year old males plummet just as Obama gets into office and never even start to recover? Is it because they all got old suddenly or went to college (that they can't afford because they aren't working).

You keep making excuses instead of answers Joe. Is your devotion to Obama that strong?
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Oct, 2016 06:50 am
@McGentrix,
I don't think that my cherry picked list about what a awesome success Obama has been would be any more intelligent than your cherry picked list about what a failure he has been.

Actually, in my opinion his record is mixed with successes and failures. But, I don't suppose that matters in the midst of a partisan mud slinging thread.

The point is that cherry-picked lists aren't intellectually honest. You can cherry-pick lists to make anyone seem either really good... or really bad.

I don't know why anyone even bothers to argue them.

McGentrix
 
  2  
Reply Thu 13 Oct, 2016 07:22 am
@maxdancona,
Is there a better list of Obama's failures that would not be considered "cherry picked"? Or, would any list that shows his failures be considered "cherry picked" because they are about his failures as President?

I can't understand why people are so reticent to discuss Obama's failings. His term is almost up and he doesn't need your support anymore. You guys had no problem continuing to blame Bush for every little thing. Hell. Joe is still trying to blame Bush for Obama's failure.
joefromchicago
 
  2  
Reply Thu 13 Oct, 2016 07:36 am
@McGentrix,
McGentrix wrote:

He is responsible for making policies and regulations that stifle economic development.

Like what?

McGentrix wrote:
Companies have stopped growing as a result of Obamacare and started hiring part-time instead of full time workers.

In my experience, the switch from full-time to part-time in the American economy had been going on for quite a while before Obamacare was enacted. But then perhaps you have some facts that support a cause-and-effect relationship here?

McGentrix wrote:
His "shovel ready" jobs program was an utter failure.

In what way?

McGentrix wrote:
These and other programs that Obama sponsored have hurt the American economy.

Well, that doesn't really answer my questions, now does it? You still haven't explained what part of the labor participation rate is Obama's responsibility.

McGentrix wrote:
Do you really not know this stuff?

I'm not sure. Do you?
McGentrix
 
  0  
Reply Thu 13 Oct, 2016 07:40 am
@joefromchicago,
joefromchicago wrote:

McGentrix wrote:
Do you really not know this stuff?

I'm not sure. Do you?


It's apparent that you do not.

Please demonstrate how " the switch from full-time to part-time in the American economy had been going on for quite a while before Obamacare was enacted. " I would be interested in seeing that.

You keep answering questions with questions. It's your turn to answer with answers instead.
joefromchicago
 
  3  
Reply Thu 13 Oct, 2016 07:45 am
@McGentrix,
McGentrix wrote:

Is it Blickers that loves graphs?

I have no clue. Why don't you ask him?

McGentrix wrote:
Why did participation rates of 25-54 year old males plummet just as Obama gets into office and never even start to recover? Is it because they all got old suddenly or went to college (that they can't afford because they aren't working).

The graph shows that participation rates started going down in 2007. My guess is that that had something to do with the massive, worldwide recession that started around that time. But then Obama wasn't the president in 2007, so I suppose you're saying that it's unlikely the policies of the president who was actually in office at that time were responsible for the decline. Rather, I assume you'd argue that Obama's policies were retroactively responsible for the economic decline that began more than a year before he took the oath of office. I'm eager to see you explain the mechanism by which that occurred.

McGentrix wrote:
You keep making excuses instead of answers Joe. Is your devotion to Obama that strong?

Not as strong as my devotion to facts.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Oct, 2016 07:45 am
@McGentrix,
I told you, McGentrix, in my opinion Obama has a mixed record. In my opinion he did a much better job than Bush. I can give you a list of things I think Obama did wrong. I suspect that my list will be largely different than yours.

I am sure you understand that these differences are partisan, McGentrix.

The reason that liberals are so reticent to discuss Obama's failings is the same as the reason that conservatives are so reticent to discuss his successes.

The same phenomenon seems to happen with every president (although I think there is an argument to be made that opposition to Obama has been nastier than with any other president).
McGentrix
 
  0  
Reply Thu 13 Oct, 2016 07:48 am
@joefromchicago,
2007, yep. That's what I said. At the beginning of his term.

I know you still like to blame Bush, but he's not been in office for awhile now.

Obama's had 8 years to get those numbers up and has failed to do so. Do you consider that to be a positive for Obama?
joefromchicago
 
  2  
Reply Thu 13 Oct, 2016 07:49 am
@McGentrix,
McGentrix wrote:
Please demonstrate how " the switch from full-time to part-time in the American economy had been going on for quite a while before Obamacare was enacted. " I would be interested in seeing that.

As I mentioned, that was an observation based on personal experience. I make no claim for it being factually accurate. But then I don't see why I should be defending claims that I've never made when you haven't defended any of the claims that you've made. I am still, for instance, waiting for answers to these questions:

earlier, joefromchicago wrote:
So the question is: which part of this is Obama's fault? Is he responsible for workers aging faster? Do you blame him for young adults going to college? And the decline has been going on since approximately 1965. So was Obama responsible for that as well? That would be a neat trick, of course, given that he was a four-year-old in Kenya at the time, but I suppose anything is possible.

As a rule, I don't answer questions from people who don't extend the same courtesy to me. In this case, I'm not inclined to make an exception.
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Oct, 2016 07:50 am
@maxdancona,
If he's had a mixed record then discussing his failures, especially when Hillary wants to be a continuation of those failures, seems to be the right thing to do.

Still, no one has been able to refute a single fact in the OP.
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  3  
Reply Thu 13 Oct, 2016 07:51 am
@McGentrix,
McGentrix wrote:

2007, yep. That's what I said. At the beginning of his term.

You do realize that Obama became president in January, 2009, don't you?
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  0  
Reply Thu 13 Oct, 2016 07:59 am
@joefromchicago,
joefromchicago wrote:

McGentrix wrote:
Please demonstrate how " the switch from full-time to part-time in the American economy had been going on for quite a while before Obamacare was enacted. " I would be interested in seeing that.

As I mentioned, that was an observation based on personal experience. I make no claim for it being factually accurate. But then I don't see why I should be defending claims that I've never made when you haven't defended any of the claims that you've made.


Claim you never made?

joefromchicago wrote:
In my experience, the switch from full-time to part-time in the American economy had been going on for quite a while before Obamacare was enacted. But then perhaps you have some facts that support a cause-and-effect relationship here?


Looks EXACTLY like a claim you made. Please go ahead and show evidence of this. We'd all like to see it.

joefromchicago wrote:
I am still, for instance, waiting for answers to these questions:

earlier, joefromchicago wrote:
So the question is: which part of this is Obama's fault? Is he responsible for workers aging faster? Do you blame him for young adults going to college? And the decline has been going on since approximately 1965. So was Obama responsible for that as well? That would be a neat trick, of course, given that he was a four-year-old in Kenya at the time, but I suppose anything is possible.

As a rule, I don't answer questions from people who don't extend the same courtesy to me. In this case, I'm not inclined to make an exception.

I answered your question already. Your question is really just a bunch of bullshit, but I answered your intent anyways. Now, answer my question above.
 

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