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When will Hillary Clinton give up her candidacy ? Part 2

 
 
bobsal u1553115
 
  2  
Reply Mon 31 Oct, 2016 12:36 pm
@maporsche,
The guy is the absolute master of derailment.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  4  
Reply Mon 31 Oct, 2016 12:47 pm
@Glennn,
Glennn wrote:

18 U.S. Code § 1924 - Unauthorized removal and retention of classified documents or material

Whoever, being an officer, employee, contractor, or consultant of the United States, and, by virtue of his office, employment, position, or contract, becomes possessed of documents or materials containing classified information of the United States, knowingly removes such documents or materials without authority and with the intent to retain such documents or materials at an unauthorized location shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for not more than one year, or both.
_____________________________________________

Well, if that doesn't describe gross negligence, then why don't you tell me what it describes. Go ahead and put a name on it. It is what Clinton did.
No. There is no gross negligence in that part of the law. It clearly states "knowingly" "and with intent". Knowingly and with intent is something completely different from gross negligence. Clearly this law can't be applied under gross negligence.

Quote:

_____________________________________________

(f) Whoever, being entrusted with or having lawful possession or control of any document, writing, code book, signal book, sketch, photograph, photographic negative, blueprint, plan, map, model, instrument, appliance, note, or information, relating to the national defense, (1) through gross negligence permits the same to be removed from its proper place of custody or delivered to anyone in violation of his trust, or to be lost, stolen, abstracted, or destroyed, or (2) having knowledge that the same has been illegally removed from its proper place of custody or delivered to anyone in violation of its trust, or lost, or stolen, abstracted, or destroyed, and fails to make prompt report of such loss, theft, abstraction, or destruction to his superior officer—
Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.

____________________________________________

Yes, I did have a mix up concerning those two documents. At any rate, I've highlighted the gross negligence segment so that you can see it this time.


This law requires a proper place of custody. Please tell us what the proper place for any email on Clinton's server is. Until there is a proper place of custody the law can't apply.
Then it requires removal from the proper place of custody. Which would require you to tell us who removed it and how.

You will find you can't define any proper place of custody from which you can reasonably claim Clinton removed any item. Your arguments continue to be nonsensical when examined in light of the law and facts.
parados
 
  4  
Reply Mon 31 Oct, 2016 12:57 pm
@Glennn,
Quote:
What part of Comey's assessment convinced you that what Clinton did was no worse than running a stop light? Remember, she received adequate training in these matters.


You don't get to ignore the first part of the sentence or the last part of the sentence when you read and apply the law.
How did Clinton have lawful possession of an item? What was the item? Until you give us both of those facts you can't apply the law.

Then once you have defined the item and how she had lawful possession you have meet the rest of the sentence and tell us how the item was removed from the proper place of custody. That requires you to define what the proper place of custody is. That proper place then has to be where Clinton personally removed the item from or allowed it to be lost, stolen, or destroyed. (Information that is in multiple places can't be destroyed so an email that contains classified information can be destroyed without destroying the information.)

So to recap, you need provide only the following simple things to meet the law.
1. name the item.
2. Tell us the proper place for the item.
3. tell us when or how the item was removed from it's proper place.
4. Show us that Clinton was responsible for the removal.

This is simple stuff, Glenn. You only need 4 simple facts to make it a crime. But you can't provide those 4 things without contradicting yourself or the law. I'll wait for your answer and then point out how you didn't meet the simple requirements.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  3  
Reply Mon 31 Oct, 2016 01:08 pm
@parados,
For again and again wading into the bottomless abyss of insipid circular argument and shining the light of reason; for preserving the promotion of facts over feverish partisan fiction, you are awarded this ... <drum roll>
Official Medal for Patience!!!!
<the crowd goes wild>
http://cdn.notonthehighstreet.com/system/product_images/images/001/474/113/original_patience-champ-badge-medal-pin.jpg
bobsal u1553115
 
  2  
Reply Mon 31 Oct, 2016 01:17 pm
@snood,
I suppose someone's got to do it. I just don't know why. Ignore is more suitable to me.
bobsal u1553115
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Oct, 2016 01:19 pm
@Glennn,
I guess those leaves will be raking themselves, after all. Poop.
0 Replies
 
glitterbag
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Oct, 2016 01:23 pm
@snood,
Well, that's a medal I'll never see in my lifetime. Maybe I'll just content myself with serenity now!
bobsal u1553115
 
  2  
Reply Mon 31 Oct, 2016 01:28 pm
@glitterbag,
Mine says "Serenity Whenever: One Manifestation, One Vote."
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Oct, 2016 03:10 pm
@bobsal u1553115,
Here's a doozy:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/cnn-cuts-ties-with-donna-brazile-after-hacked-emails-suggest-she-gave-clinton-campaign-debate-questions-183855590.html
revelette2
 
  2  
Reply Mon 31 Oct, 2016 04:45 pm
FBI's Comey opposed naming Russians, citing election timing: Source

Quote:
FBI Director James Comey argued privately that it was too close to Election Day for the United States government to name Russia as meddling in the U.S. election and ultimately ensured that the FBI's name was not on the document that the U.S. government put out, a former FBI official tells CNBC.

The official said some government insiders are perplexed as to why Comey would have election timing concerns with the Russian disclosure but not with the Huma Abedin email discovery disclosure he made Friday.

In the end, the Department of Homeland Security and The Office of the Director of National Intelligence issued the statement on Oct. 7, saying "The U.S. intelligence community is confident that the Russian Government directed the recent compromises of emails from US persons and institutions, including from US political organizations…These thefts and disclosures are intended to interfere with the US election process."

An FBI spokesperson declined to comment on Comey's role in the decision making surrounding the Oct. 7 statement.


According to the former official, Comey agreed with the conclusion the intelligence community came to: "A foreign power was trying to undermine the election. He believed it to be true, but was against putting it out before the election." Comey's position, this official said, was "if it is said, it shouldn't come from the FBI, which as you'll recall it did not."


Comey took a different approach toward releasing information about the discovery of emails on a laptop that was used by former Congressman Anthony Weiner and his estranged wife Huma Abedin, the official said. "By doing a press conference, and personally testifying and giving his opinion about the conduct, he made this about James Comey and his credibility," the official said. "You can see why he did it, from his perspective, once he had had that press conference."


The official said FBI investigators can get a "preliminary read" of the newly discovered emails within a couple of days and come to an initial conclusion about whether there is classified material in the files. "The questions is whether they will decide to share that read or not," the official said. "Normally in the FBI we would not, but we're not in normal land anymore."
0 Replies
 
Below viewing threshold (view)
revelette2
 
  4  
Reply Mon 31 Oct, 2016 04:52 pm
Some in the FBI tried to probe deeper into the Clinton Foundation and a Judge told them no and added that they couldn’t “go prosecutor-shopping.”


FBI in Internal Feud Over Clinton Probe
0 Replies
 
bobsal u1553115
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Oct, 2016 06:34 pm
@cicerone imposter,
I can see her being terminated but it really breaks no laws.
0 Replies
 
bobsal u1553115
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Oct, 2016 06:36 pm
@McGentrix,
Quote:

That's probably because you are too chicken **** to have an actual discussion with someone better at debating than you are. You and Snood are peas in a pod. Out classed, out matched and out smarted by your betters.


What a wonderful example of civility you are junior.
0 Replies
 
Glennn
 
  0  
Reply Mon 31 Oct, 2016 06:38 pm
@parados,
Quote:
No. There is no gross negligence in that part of the law. It clearly states "knowingly" "and with intent". Knowingly and with intent is something completely different from gross negligence. Clearly this law can't be applied under gross negligence.

Sorry to have to tell you this . . . again, but Clinton knowingly intended to retain classified material at an unauthorized location--her own personal server at her own place of residence even after being schooled concerning proper protocol. She signed a legally binding agreement stating as much. She did it knowingly.

Quote:
This law requires a proper place of custody. Please tell us what the proper place for any email on Clinton's server is. Until there is a proper place of custody the law can't apply. Then it requires removal from the proper place of custody. Which would require you to tell us who removed it and how.

This is you trying to be clever again. The proper place of custody for emails having to do with government business is a secured State site, and not on her personal email server at her place of residence. You are attempting to create a loophole here, whereby if she never placed it in the proper place of custody in the first place, then it can't be said that she removed it from it's proper place of custody. Creative, but hardly honest. It was gross negligence. She neglected to take proper care in the performance of her duty as Secretary of State. Not only that, but she neglected to ask for counsel concerning whether or not she can use her own personal email to communicate government business on. That, too, was something she was obligated to do as per the Classified Information Nondisclosure Agreement she signed--which you have seen! So . . .

Glennn
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 31 Oct, 2016 06:44 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
Here's a doozy:

You've heard of Beatle-mania. There's also Elvis-mania, and Pope-mania. I think you'll find that what your link points to is not going to put a dent in the ones who are suffering from Hillary-mania. If they saw Hillary shoot their dog, they'd probably insist that she had to have had a gun to her back.
0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 31 Oct, 2016 06:49 pm
@Glennn,
Quote:
Sorry to have to tell you this . . . again, but Clinton knowingly intended to retain classified material at an unauthorized location--her own personal server at her own place of residence even after being schooled concerning proper protocol. She signed a legally binding agreement stating as much. She did it knowingly.
This is you trying to be clever again.


You seem very smart like Sam Harris but do you at times feel like you are trying to help someone at an insane asylum that cant be helped?



0 Replies
 
RABEL222
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Oct, 2016 08:03 pm
@DrewDad,
Its too bad that political discourse [lies] cant be brought to court by the person being libeled. Hillary would be worth a billion dollars.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Oct, 2016 09:17 pm
@Glennn,
Quote:
Sorry to have to tell you this . . . again, but Clinton knowingly intended to retain classified material at an unauthorized location--her own personal server at her own place of residence even after being schooled concerning proper protocol

Once again you ignore three parts of the law so you can make an idiotic claim.

Quote:
She signed a legally binding agreement stating as much. She did it knowingly.
That is a red herring and says nothing about her violating US Code as you claimed.

Quote:
This is you trying to be clever again. The proper place of custody for emails having to do with government business is a secured State site, and not on her personal email server at her place of residence.
OK. So if that is the proper place then how did Hillary remove them from that place? When were they actually at that place? Sorry, but you don't get to ignore the parts of the law that are required to happen before the law is violated. Laws are very clear in that fashion.

Quote:
if she never placed it in the proper place of custody in the first place, then it can't be said that she removed it from it's proper place of custody.
Which is why you can't apply a law that requires something be removed form its proper place. No judge would allow you to do that. As I stated, your circular reasoning undermines your argument.

Quote:
She neglected to take proper care in the performance of her duty as Secretary of State.
While that may be an argument for not supporting her for President, it is not a violation of US Code.
Quote:
Not only that, but she neglected to ask for counsel concerning whether or not she can use her own personal email to communicate government business on.
While that may be an argument for not supporting her for President, it is not a violation of US Code.

Quote:
That, too, was something she was obligated to do as per the Classified Information Nondisclosure Agreement she signed--which you have seen
Please cite the part of the Nondisclosure agreement that you think required her to ask for counsel.

Quote:

This is you trying to be clever again.
No, this is me clearly following the wording of the law. That is you ignoring the law and throwing out random statements and then claiming it proves something it doesn't.

So to recap, you need provide only the following simple things to meet the law and show Clinton broke it. All four are required. So far you haven't provided even the first item on the list.
1. name the item.
2. Tell us the proper place for the item.
3. tell us when or how the item was removed from it's proper place.
4. Show us that Clinton was responsible for the removal.
izzythepush
 
  3  
Reply Tue 1 Nov, 2016 03:52 am
@glitterbag,
glitterbag wrote:

On a serious note, I'm also baffled why the hate is so deep, visceral and unshakable.


Same reason they hated Obama. White, poorly educated, men don't like to see anything that threatens their white male privilege. Being white and male is all they've got. If black men and women start serving as president they don't even have that.
 

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