30
   

When will Hillary Clinton give up her candidacy ? Part 2

 
 
revelette2
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Oct, 2016 10:46 am
@Glennn,
I don't know if you watched the hearing when the republicans dragged Comey before them to answer for his announcement not recommend indictment but he contradicts every thing you said in your post. The following is from a partisan site, however, I am sure the original can be googled and I think there is a link embedded at the source of the following:

Quote:
Well, on Thursday, Republicans decided they’d hold a blatant political stunt hoping for a “gotcha” moment bring FBI Director James Comey in front of Congress for questioning.

While they did get Comey to say a few things negatively about Clinton, when they asked most of their blatantly leading questions, the answers he provided typically did nothing but debunk a lot of the propaganda Republicans have been pushing about this entire situation for over a year.

Let me run through a few of the “lowlights” for Republicans.

1. When Rep. Matt Cartwright (D-PA) asked if the classified emails that Clinton received were properly marked, Comey said they were not. He stated that they should have had headers and banners indicating they were classified. He even went on to say that it would be a “reasonable inference” to assume that, with the absence of these banners and headers, Clinton could have easily assumed the email was not classified.

This means that while some were marked classified (which is a contradiction to what Clinton has been saying this whole time), none of the ones found on her server were properly marked and he believes it was “reasonable” for Clinton to then assume that those emails were not, in fact, classified.

2. When Oversight Chairman Jason Chaffetz (R-UT) asked if Clinton lied to the FBI, Comey said, “We have no basis to conclude she lied to the FBI.”

In other words, what she told the FBI lined up with the rest of their extensive investigation.

3. When Chaffetz asked, “Did Hillary Clinton break the law,” in reference to her setting up this private email server, Comey said that based on his experience as a lawyer and in law enforcement that it was his “judgment that she did not.”

Yes, that’s the Director of the FBI saying that Hillary Clinton did not break the law when she used the server. This is huge considering the whole basis for most of the GOP’s propaganda about this situation is their belief that she should be indicted because she broke the law — even though the Director of the FBI just told Congress that she didn’t.



source

Like I said, I think with the announcement of reopening the investigation when they had so little to report was Comey covering his butt in case in a long shot something comes out of it all.
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Mon 31 Oct, 2016 10:54 am
@snood,
I wonder whether this **** can be fully vetted and analyzed by the Dec 19th date when the electors meet to cast their vote and present the results to congress. There are reliefs for the offended party identified within the USCS .
This seems to be a made -up (woulda/coulda) wherein the original presentation by Comey had been pretty much a done del, It appears that there is no evidence of anything in these e-mails since NOONE knows whats in em at all and all this right wing trash talk is being pulled out of asses and being covered by wikipedia clips.
Im seeing lots of BORG -like thinking where same **** is being dressed and presented on radio/and Tv (with clips here).

Should the election results be interfered with (as Trump has opened that door) , the electors can vote anyway they wish.

Itd be an interesting thing that could usher in interesting times.


0 Replies
 
snood
 
  2  
Reply Mon 31 Oct, 2016 10:55 am
Elijah Cummings says we "have no idea" about how hard the Republicans have been pushing the FBI to attack Clinton.

Comey probably did this latest bogus "reveal" just to get the jackals off his back.

https://www.rawstory.com/2016/10/cummings-shocker-americans-dont-have-a-clue-how-hard-the-gop-pushed-the-fbi-to-attack-clinton/
0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  2  
Reply Mon 31 Oct, 2016 10:56 am
Meanwhile, Hillary is still holding her own while this smearing in going on.

If you go to 538 election forecast you can see she has slipped but still ahead. I don't see that changing too much before election day.
0 Replies
 
Glennn
 
  0  
Reply Mon 31 Oct, 2016 11:06 am
@parados,
Quote:
You can't charge Clinton under this law because it fails the "knowingly"

. . . through gross negligence permits the same to be removed from its proper place of custody or delivered to anyone in violation of his trust,

Where is the word "knowingly"?

Even so, how can you say that she didn't knowingly violate her obligation when she was properly trained in the handling of classified material, which included asking someone should she be uncertain of what to do or not to do?
Quote:
Show that Clinton knowingly removed documents from anywhere.

Now you're trying to be clever. Of course she didn't remove anything. That's because it was not where it was supposed to be in the first place. But then you know that. That's like saying as long as I steal something from the delivery truck before it's taken into the store, I'm not guilty of improperly removing anything from the store. Funny.
___________________________________________

The IC IG found four emails containing classified IC-derived information in a limited sample of 40 emails of the 30,000 emails provided by former Secretary Clinton. The four emails, which have not been released through the State FOIA process, did not contain classification markings and/or dissemination controls. These emails were not retroactively classified by the State Department; rather these em ails contained classified information when they were generated and, according to IC classification officials, that information remains classified today. This classified information should never have been transmitted via an unclassified personal system.
________________________________________

Ah, so who is the guilty party in this? And Clinton, being the senior diplomatic official of the U.S. didn't understand that someone was sending her classified information to her personal email server? Hmmm. I've often heard that ignorance is no excuse for the law. At any rate, you'd have to believe that, in not reporting the person sending the classified information to her, Clinton is an accomplice in this gross negligence.

glitterbag
 
  4  
Reply Mon 31 Oct, 2016 11:13 am
@snood,
On a serious note, I'm also baffled why the hate is so deep, visceral and unshakable. Is it possible she reminds some people of a cruel teacher or Aunt? I know what the arguments are and I'm convinced some people genuinely hate her for whatever reasons they claim, but it's done in almost a religious frenzy.

Even community associations elections stir up animosity, and I absolutely understand that we all have our preference, but we (the citizens, voters) seem to believe it's perfectly alright to delegitimize anyone in office who wasn't our pick. It's become relentless and as ordinary as day turning into night. Maybe that just makes us a nation of sore losers, I don't know. But it's obvious that we get nothing done while the 'leadership' sabotages each other.
Glennn
 
  0  
Reply Mon 31 Oct, 2016 11:15 am
@revelette2,
The IC IG found four emails containing classified IC-derived information in a limited sample of 40 emails of the 30,000 emails provided by former Secretary Clinton. The four emails, which have not been released through the State FOIA process, did not contain classification markings and/or dissemination controls. These emails were not retroactively classified by the State Department; rather these em ails contained classified information when they were generated and, according to IC classification officials, that information remains classified today. This classified information should never have been transmitted via an unclassified personal system.
__________________________________________

Comey's own words:

"There is evidence to support a conclusion that any reasonable person in Secretary Clinton's position, or in the position of those with whom she was corresponding about those matters, should have known that an unclassified system was no place for that conversation."

"None of these emails should have been on any kind of unclassified system, but their presence is especially concerning because all of these emails were housed on unclassified personal servers not even supported by full-time security staff, like those found at agencies and departments of the United States government -- or even with a commercial email service like Gmail."

"Only a very small number of the emails containing classified information bore markings indicating the presence of classified information. But even if information is not marked 'classified' in an email, participants who know or should know that the subject matter is classified are still obligated to protect it." This is made clear in the Classified Information Nondisclosure Agreement she signed when she became Secretary of State.

"We do assess that hostile actors gained access to the private commercial email accounts of people with whom Secretary Clinton was in regular contact from her personal account. We also assess that Secretary Clinton's use of a personal email domain was both known by a large number of people and readily apparent."

"She also used her personal email extensively while outside the United States, including sending and receiving work-related emails in the territory of sophisticated adversaries. Given that combination of factors, we assess it is possible that hostile actors gained access to Secretary Clinton's personal email account."
______________________________________________________________________________
He did indeed describe gross negligence, but then he attempted to show her innocence by virtue of the fact that she did not intend to be grossly negligent.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 31 Oct, 2016 11:16 am
@Glennn,
I agree with you. I had a Top Secret clearance in the military, and we understood the rules of classified material.
What I found interesting is that the atom bomb we worked with in the late 1950s is now displayed at the museum in Fredericksburg, Tx, National Museum of the Pacific War.
https://www.google.com/search?q=picture+of+fat+man+atom+bomb&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari
maporsche
 
  3  
Reply Mon 31 Oct, 2016 11:22 am
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

I agree with you. I had a Top Secret clearance in the military, and we understood the rules of classified material.
What I found interesting is that the atom bomb we worked with in the late 1950s is now displayed at the museum in Fredericksburg, Tx.


Do you even know what material was considered classified? What was damaging about the information that was sent. Maybe Clinton should be tried for treason.

It has been reported that the 'classified' emails were talking points in response to an article being released by a newspaper the following day that was critical of the administration conducting drone strikes.

She was talking with her staff about how they'd respond to information that was going to be made public in the next couple days.
Glennn
 
  0  
Reply Mon 31 Oct, 2016 11:25 am
@glitterbag,
Quote:
Is it possible she reminds some people of a cruel teacher or Aunt?

It's possible, but it's more likely that she reminds some people of a person who doesn't have to answer for things . . . so far.

Conversely, is it possible that she reminds some people of a cruel teacher, an aunt, or even a mother who is somehow right, even when she is wrong?
Glennn
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 31 Oct, 2016 11:29 am
@maporsche,
Quote:
What was damaging about the information that was sent.

"We do assess that hostile actors gained access to the private commercial email accounts of people with whom Secretary Clinton was in regular contact from her personal account. We also assess that Secretary Clinton's use of a personal email domain was both known by a large number of people and readily apparent."
___________________________________________

The State Department acknowledged for the first time Friday that “top secret” information has been found in emails that passed through the private email server Hillary Clinton used while leading the agency, elevating the issue in the presidential campaign three days before the hotly contested Iowa caucuses.
___________________________________________

I guess your point is: No harm, no foul.

They don't treat people who are guilty of reckless driving according to the "no harm, no foul" philosophy.
glitterbag
 
  3  
Reply Mon 31 Oct, 2016 11:34 am
@Glennn,
Whatever reason people use, it really doesn't explain the depth of hatred. I recognize there is hatred, there is no doubt about that, I just hope we don't make all of our future decisions based only on hate and without sobriety.
maporsche
 
  4  
Reply Mon 31 Oct, 2016 11:37 am
@Glennn,
That doesn't come close to answering the question.

You're all pissed about 'top secret' emails but you have literally ZERO clue what they may be about.

I'm sure you've also complained at some point in the last 8 years that the Obama administration engages in 'over-classification' of who-knows-what in order to avoid FOIA requests. More information under Obama has been classified than any other president. Here's an article from 2014 that outlines just some of it (http://time.com/27443/study-obama-administration-more-secretive-than-ever/).

I mean, I get it....you're looking for anything you can to hurt the opposing party (democrats do it too). Just don't assume you're fooling anyone.
maporsche
 
  3  
Reply Mon 31 Oct, 2016 11:39 am
@Glennn,
Glennn wrote:
They don't treat people who are guilty of reckless driving according to the "no harm, no foul" philosophy.


OF COURSE they are treated differently if no harm was committed. Do you often hear of people getting charged for vehicular manslaughter just because they were speeding excessively?
0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  3  
Reply Mon 31 Oct, 2016 11:41 am
@Glennn,
Quote:
Did hackers successfully break into her computer and access her emails?

Attempts were made, but the IG and FBI found no evidence that any attempt was successful. That does not mean, however, that none was successful.

The IG report said hackers attempted to access Clinton’s server on Jan. 9, 2011, but Clinton’s technical support adviser shut down the server to deny access. The report also said that Clinton received two phishing email messages on May 13, 2011, that contained suspicious links. Both attempted breaches should have been reported, but were not, according to the IG report.

The FBI director said the lack of direct evidence that Clinton’s server was successfully hacked by “any foreign power or other hostile actors” doesn’t mean it wasn’t. “[G]iven the nature of the system and of the actors potentially involved, we assess that we would be unlikely to see such direct evidence,” Comey said. “We do assess that hostile actors gained access to the private commercial email accounts of people with whom Secretary Clinton was in regular contact from her personal account. We also assess that Secretary Clinton’s use of a personal email domain was both known by a large number of people and readily apparent. She also used her personal email extensively while outside the United States, including sending and receiving work-related emails in the territory of sophisticated adversaries. Given that combination of factors, we assess it is possible that hostile actors gained access to Secretary Clinton’s personal email account.”

source

So they were able to find others who were hacked but not Clinton, moreover, they were able to find attempts were made but none were successful. Since attempts were made at the state department and attempts were successful, it seems to me, it wouldn't have made it any safer to use a state department email server.
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  4  
Reply Mon 31 Oct, 2016 11:43 am
@Glennn,
You want to throw Clinton in jail because her and her staff wrote talking points about how to respond to a newspaper article about drone strikes that was being published.

Why stop at jail? Why not the death penalty for all involved under articles of treason?
0 Replies
 
Glennn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Oct, 2016 11:43 am
@glitterbag,
Bringing facts and information to a debate will always feel like hatred or an attack to those who don't like seeing that kind of thing. And they do answer with a fair amount of hatred.
Glennn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Oct, 2016 11:46 am
@maporsche,
Quote:
You're all pissed about 'top secret' emails but you have literally ZERO clue what they may be about.

Really? You mean that "top secret" doesn't mean top secret?
Quote:
I mean, I get it....you're looking for anything you can to hurt the opposing party

I don't mean to hurt anyone . . .
parados
 
  3  
Reply Mon 31 Oct, 2016 11:47 am
@Glennn,
This is what you cited as the law you were going to charge Hillary with that applied in the post I responded to:
Quote:
18 U.S. Code § 1924 - Unauthorized removal and retention of classified documents or material

Whoever, being an officer, employee, contractor, or consultant of the United States, and, by virtue of his office, employment, position, or contract, becomes possessed of documents or materials containing classified information of the United States, knowingly removes such documents or materials without authority and with the intent to retain such documents or materials at an unauthorized location shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for not more than one year, or both.

I would appreciate if you would highlight where the words "gross negligence" are in that passage. Or you if you could point out where in the entire law the words "gross negligence" are located. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1924

I don't think I am clever at all. It is you that is using words from one law and trying to say they are part of another law. The law doesn't work that way. You have to take a single law in it's entirety. You can't piecemeal one part of one section and one part of another.

18 U.S. Code § 793 is a different part of the code that contains "gross negligence." I addressed your idiot argument about it earlier and you never refuted anything I said.
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Oct, 2016 11:49 am
@Glennn,
Glennn wrote:

Quote:
You're all pissed about 'top secret' emails but you have literally ZERO clue what they may be about.

Really? You mean that "top secret" doesn't mean top secret?


See, exactly.

Simple question.

Do you agree that it is likely there are documents that are considered 'top secret' that have no business being top secret?

OR if you prefer

Do you agree that within the vast number of documents marked top secret, that there are some that are way way less secret than others?
 

Related Topics

Obama '08? - Discussion by sozobe
Let's get rid of the Electoral College - Discussion by Robert Gentel
McCain's VP: - Discussion by Cycloptichorn
Food Stamp Turkeys - Discussion by H2O MAN
The 2008 Democrat Convention - Discussion by Lash
McCain is blowing his election chances. - Discussion by McGentrix
Snowdon is a dummy - Discussion by cicerone imposter
TEA PARTY TO AMERICA: NOW WHAT?! - Discussion by farmerman
 
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 1.29 seconds on 11/15/2024 at 01:49:08