29
   

Those were the days: when was America greatest? When was life in the US best?

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Sep, 2016 12:21 pm
@maxdancona,
It's been my observation that blacks still don't get equal justice, but at the same time, I just wonder how long they're going to play the victim game.
Blacks still serve longer terms for the same crimes that whites commit.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424127887324432004578304463789858002
Beyond that, many blacks have lived very good lives in this country.
We Japanese have been the victims of discrimination before, during, and after WWII, but we have now integrated into this country very well without suffering the discrimination of the past.
I don't get it.
Maybe, somebody can enlighten me.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Sep, 2016 12:23 pm
@maxdancona,
Unlike you, apparently, I don't have to agree with all of someone's political positions to consider them great and admire them.

Edit: I guess you would feel better if I said I hated the Commie bastard. Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  2  
Reply Fri 9 Sep, 2016 12:52 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
I still wanted to say thanks, Finn, for that long comment of yours. Very thoughtful.
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Sep, 2016 12:55 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Yes, I remember that there was some to and fro but that it didn't come together in the end. Hope you had a good time here!
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Sep, 2016 12:58 pm
@izzythepush,
Ah, I see, ok. Sorry about that.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Sep, 2016 01:01 pm
@nimh,
And others too, of course! A number of thoughtful posts here and a nice mix of the personal and the political. Cheers, all.
0 Replies
 
giujohn
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 9 Sep, 2016 01:02 pm
@maxdancona,
I'm sorry, I'm not going to be sucked into your Love Fest for Obama. He wouldn't have been fit to shine MLK shoes. Martin was a uniter, Obama is a divider... That's the politician in him. Martin was not a politician; remember first and foremost he was a minister, the Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King, a minister of peace.

You said Obama didn't call for violence against the police... True Dat...We only heard from him, when he was forced to do so, when in a short span of a few days, AFTER we had 18 cops shot.

Did we ever hear Obama denounce black lives matter when they called for the death of cops? Not saying anything is just as bad as calling for the violence.

You said I "white" washed Dr. King... I'm sure it fits your narrative to paint him as a black militant. Dr. King said a lot of things but the most important thing he taught us was to look past color... To a world where we wouldn't be judged by the color of our skin but by the content of our character.

And that's why I am able to say to black people, if you can't get past the fact that you're black don't expect others to.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Sep, 2016 01:03 pm
@nimh,
You're welcome nimh
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 9 Sep, 2016 01:10 pm
@giujohn,
giujohn wrote:

Back before the internet, back before the 24-hour news cycle, back before cable TV, back when the Evening News was only on for 15 minutes a night, back when people actually had to read a newspaper to get most of their news, back when police officers were respected public servants and not shot on site, back when the Constitution was respected by jurists, back when colleges we're not a breeding ground for wacko leftists, back when you could leave your front door and your car unlocked, back when we had no problem identifying our enemies and knew how to put fear in their hearts, back when a citizen of the United States overseas was threatened harm by a foreign government that government felt the full weight of the US Military, back when the black community had an inspirational leader like Martin Luther King, back when America was exceptional.


Could we add: Back when most people felt gratitude for being in a country that offered anyone with talent and energy to advance in their life. Back when entitlement was not a mindset of the masses. Back when "human rights" did not include the belief that everyone was to be living a life on an "even playing field," since some people are ahead of the pack since birth. Back when people understood that the societal pie is not big enough for everyone to get a humongous slice. Back when people were happy to not be living through a depression like their parents. Back when "wealth inequality" was as silly to proselytize as watching cartoons for adults. When everyone understood that Americanism was a secular religion of sorts that one didn't have to be "square" to believe in it.
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Fri 9 Sep, 2016 01:11 pm
@giujohn,
Quote:
Dr. King said a lot of things but the most important thing he taught us was to look past color... To a world where we wouldn't be judged by the color of our skin but by the content of their character.


This is a untrue. Yes in the "I have a dream" speech he had one line about "judged not for the color of his skin" which conservatives latch onto without reading any context.

I have given you several other quotes... full passages rather than single lines... where he condemns "racist police", calls for redistribution of wealth and changes to the political power structure to address systemic injustice.

Martin Luther King said the same thing that the Black Lives matter movement is saying today. You seem to ignore what he actually said. Here is another quote (as a full paragraph rather than a single line taken out of context. I would love to hear your response (or Finns) on any of these Martin Luther King quotes.

Martin Luther King wrote:

Whites, it must frankly be said, are not putting in a similar mass effort to reeducate themselves out of their racial ignorance. It is an aspect of their sense of superiority that the white people of America believe they have so little to learn. The reality of substantial investment to assist Negroes into the twentieth century, adjusting to Negro neighbors and genuine school integration, is still a nightmare for all too many white Americans…These are the deepest causes for contemporary abrasions between the races. Loose and easy language about equality, resonant resolutions about brotherhood fall pleasantly on the ear, but for the Negro there is a credibility gap he cannot overlook. He remembers that with each modest advance the white population promptly raises the argument that the Negro has come far enough. Each step forward accents an ever-present tendency to backlash.


How is this not true today? And how is this not exactly what the Black Lives Matter Movement is saying.

Foofie
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 9 Sep, 2016 01:14 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

You have every right to hold narrow little hateful beliefs. But if you do, you don't get to invoke Martin Luther King.

Martin Luther King was an avowed enemy to people who think the way that you think. He doesn't belong to you. His writings, actions and words are too clear for you to whitewash him.

If you read much that Martin Luther King said... you would be horrified.



So, you have morphed into a 1960's civil rights activist? I thought you were just a boychick that understood that in America everyone is entitled to an opinion. As the old expression goes amongst New Yorkers: who dropped dead and left you boss?
0 Replies
 
giujohn
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 9 Sep, 2016 01:16 pm
@maxdancona,
You can try to paint BLM in any positive light you choose but no matter what you say, when members of BLM publicly call for the death of police officers and they are not denounced, anything they say or do after that means absolutely nothing.
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 9 Sep, 2016 01:19 pm
@ehBeth,
ehBeth wrote:

I'm very selfish when I do the assessment and all I really care about is medical advances.

Things are much better now than they were 10, 20, 50, 100 years ago - and they continue to get better.

___

If I try to look at a bigger picture, I look at medicine again and social advances - and once again I'm looking at now.


Yes, some medical advances, but the supposed uphill progress might be just what we are to believe, so we don't count all those that are still dying. Must keep those little chickens true believers in society's progress.
0 Replies
 
giujohn
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 9 Sep, 2016 01:20 pm
@Foofie,
Foofie wrote:

giujohn wrote:

Back before the internet, back before the 24-hour news cycle, back before cable TV, back when the Evening News was only on for 15 minutes a night, back when people actually had to read a newspaper to get most of their news, back when police officers were respected public servants and not shot on site, back when the Constitution was respected by jurists, back when colleges we're not a breeding ground for wacko leftists, back when you could leave your front door and your car unlocked, back when we had no problem identifying our enemies and knew how to put fear in their hearts, back when a citizen of the United States overseas was threatened harm by a foreign government that government felt the full weight of the US Military, back when the black community had an inspirational leader like Martin Luther King, back when America was exceptional.


Could we add: Back when most people felt gratitude for being in a country that offered anyone with talent and energy to advance in their life. Back when entitlement was not a mindset of the masses. Back when "human rights" did not include the belief that everyone was to be living a life on an "even playing field," since some people are ahead of the pack since birth. Back when people understood that the societal pie is not big enough for everyone to get a humongous slice. Back when people were happy to not be living through a depression like their parents. Back when "wealth inequality" was as silly to proselytize as watching cartoons for adults. When everyone understood that Americanism was a secular religion of sorts that one didn't have to be "square" to believe in it.


Thank you for that well written, articulate addendum.
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 9 Sep, 2016 01:27 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

I think a lot of right wing Americans hark back to the 50s not because it was better then but because it was better in America. America had a booming economy post war, had escaped any bombings and emerged from the war much better off. Europe was pretty much bankrupt, still had rationing, in many way worse than during WW2 and had to repair a bombed out infrastructure. Back in the 50s most Europeans envied the lifestyle of the average American.

Not any more. Now lifestyles aren't that much different, although Europe's healthcare is so much better than America's.


Well, Americans did like the '50's, if they were white and christian. It was their time to enjoy the fruits of winning WWII. But, it was not a competition with anyone else. There was no Schadenfreude over the condition of Europe. Many parents told their children to finish their meals, since children in Europe might be starving. And, many in America value the healthcare system, since it is more high tech than socialized countries, whereby patients do not have to wait for high tech procedures. And, as shown on Doc Martin it could be a wait for anything beyond the village physician.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Sep, 2016 01:31 pm
@Foofie,
Quote:
Back when most people felt gratitude for being in a country that offered anyone with talent and energy to advance in their life. Back when entitlement was not a mindset of the masses. Back when "human rights" did not include the belief that everyone was to be living a life on an "even playing field," since some people are ahead of the pack since birth. Back when people understood that the societal pie is not big enough for everyone to get a humongous slice. Back when people were happy to not be living through a depression like their parents. Back when "wealth inequality" was as silly to proselytize as watching cartoons for adults. When everyone understood that Americanism was a secular religion of sorts that one didn't have to be "square" to believe in it.


This is simply untrue. Or, would you please give a year when you think this was the case?

Martin Luther King's movement was about wealth inequality and human rights. If the country "offered anyone with talent and energy to advance in their life" then there would have been no need for Martin Luther King or the Black lives Matter movement.

I challenge you to give me a year when you think that your words ever applied, a single year. Then we can look at the reality of what was happening at the time.

Foofie
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 9 Sep, 2016 01:40 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

Quote:
Back when most people felt gratitude for being in a country that offered anyone with talent and energy to advance in their life. Back when entitlement was not a mindset of the masses. Back when "human rights" did not include the belief that everyone was to be living a life on an "even playing field," since some people are ahead of the pack since birth. Back when people understood that the societal pie is not big enough for everyone to get a humongous slice. Back when people were happy to not be living through a depression like their parents. Back when "wealth inequality" was as silly to proselytize as watching cartoons for adults. When everyone understood that Americanism was a secular religion of sorts that one didn't have to be "square" to believe in it.


This is simply untrue. Or, would you please give a year when you think this was the case?

Martin Luther King's movement was about wealth inequality and human rights. If the country "offered anyone with talent and energy to advance in their life" then there would have been no need for Martin Luther King or the Black lives Matter movement.

I challenge you to give me a year when you think that your words ever applied, a single year. Then we can look at the reality of what was happening at the time.




I have no comment on MLK. He could not be my leader, since if he subscribed to Communism, that includes no private ownership of land, and that goes against Americanism. And, as far as a year that would reflect my points posted, it might be around 1963. What you discern is of no importance to me, since my opinion is just subjective, and in no way am I trying to pursuade you to adopt my thinking. Remember, Jews don't proselytize; at least those like me. Are you fasting this Yom Kippur?
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Fri 9 Sep, 2016 01:42 pm
@maxdancona,
You bet~! Trump is our contemporary, and he discriminated against blacks (and probably other minorities). I'm sure there are many others besides Trump who continue to discriminate - even with laws against discrimination.

The fight will continue for many generations to come. Even our legal system needs fixing.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Sep, 2016 03:12 pm
@farmerman,
Perhaps from a parochial point of view or based on the thrill of political struggle and wins (locally), the Southern Democrat politicians might have felt it was a grand time but for the duration of the Reconstruction period, the South suffered greatly from losing the Civil War and the poverty that spread across the region wasn't limited to blacks. The average Southerner who was a "member" of the Democrat party might have gotten a kick at seeing blacks put "back in their place," but other than from a mean-spirited and vile emotional basis, they didn't prosper from Reconstruction.

On a national stage, it was a while before the Democrats regained beyond the region and I'm sure Southern Democrat politicians would have preferred to be part of the dominant party, even if things at home weren't all that bad for them bad. The thing with those who lust for power is that there never seems to be enough to satisfy them so monsters like Saddam who, arguably, might have been considered to "have it all," may have been gnashing his teeth on a nightly basis because he couldn't get Kuwait.
0 Replies
 
giujohn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Sep, 2016 04:48 pm
@Foofie,
I respect your views but I just like to add that I have never seen any evidence to indicate that Martin Luther King was a communist.
 

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