29
   

Those were the days: when was America greatest? When was life in the US best?

 
 
perennialloner
 
  5  
Reply Sat 17 Sep, 2016 07:23 am
@AC14747,
Let me get this straight... your intention in posting that black people commit the majority of violent crimes wasnt to discredit black people and the defense of black people against racism but an elaborate plan to show that liberals are intolerant? You have successfully shown that people are intolerant of faulty statements. Good job.

Your race doesn't matter. Your motive is and has always been obvious. You didn't simply state a problem. You attacked the black community because you are bigoted, racist, and prejudiced. Fighting for the justice of people who have been marginalized for centuries and suffered through the reproductive effects is not bigotry. It is decency and it is compassion. You are neither decent nor compassionate and very much a mumpsimus.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  3  
Reply Sat 17 Sep, 2016 10:50 am
@AC14747,
It fits perfectly because you don't have a clue what you're talking about.
0 Replies
 
Real Music
 
  2  
Reply Sat 17 Sep, 2016 08:14 pm
@AC14747,
Quote:
Full Definition of bigot

: a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group with hatred and intolerance

I like this definition it fits perfectly the Liberals here in a2k and elsewhere who and arguments with members of the right with hysterical cries of racist bigot prejudice homophobe xenophobe islamophobe etc. Yes that will do nicely. Thank you.

Your words, your insulting tone, and your deliberate attempt to denigrate an entire race of human beings clearly meets the definition of bigot and racist. You have deliberately chose to cherry pick a piece of data for the Sole and Only Purpose of denigrating an entire race of human beings. You are the one who is disappointed in an entire race of human beings. So, if you want to thank me for pointing out the definition of bigot or racist, you're welcome. Just be clear that this definition describes you in every detail. This definition describes you to the letter.
Real Music
 
  2  
Reply Sat 17 Sep, 2016 08:31 pm
@AC14747,
Quote:
Thank you for saying that you denounce blacks who kill other blacks or refer to other blacks as nigger... very commendable

My exact words was "I denounce any individual who kills another individual regardless of race."
The fact that you have misquoted what I actually said, to adhere to your racist bigot views further proves that you are a hateful bigot.



Quote:
Now when have I denounced an entire race?

You clearly have stated that you are disappointed in black people. At no point did you refer to an individual.
0 Replies
 
Real Music
 
  4  
Reply Sat 17 Sep, 2016 08:59 pm
@AC14747,
Quote:
Well apparently I must be something to you otherwise you wouldn't be responding to me.
Again, let me repeat what I said when I was responding to one of your previous post to me.
I said "I don't need you to hate me or like me. I don't even know you. You are nothing to me"



Your latest reply to me is
Quote:
Well apparently I must be something to you otherwise you wouldn't be responding to me.

The answer to that misguided statement is clear. I like to have open debates and open discussions with all types of people on A2K. You or anyone for the matter, doesn't have to mean anything to me, for me to engage in a debate with. The fact that I find you to be a despicable hateful racist human being doesn't mean I want to shut down and not debate anymore. As I said before, you still mean nothing to me. I just love to debate with all kinds of people on a great number of topics. At some point I will grow bored of you. When that time comes I will move on to something different.
0 Replies
 
giujohn
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 18 Sep, 2016 06:27 am
@Real Music,
You are a patently political bigot. You are about hate, Division, and intolerance. You are for an America devoid of the Constitution and its protections of infringement of rights by the government. You are a leftist socialist of the worst kind. This is your "AMERIKA"
Real Music
 
  4  
Reply Sun 18 Sep, 2016 02:19 pm
@giujohn,
Quote:
You are a patently political bigot. You are about hate, Division, and intolerance. You are for an America devoid of the Constitution and its protections of infringement of rights by the government. You are a leftist socialist of the worst kind. This is your "AMERIKA"

That is interesting that you see me that way. I wonder how many other A2k members would agree with your assessment of me. Maybe they agree with your assessment, Maybe they disagree with your assessment. I'm just wondering. As I am sure you already knew, I am a democrat. As I am sure you already knew, my political views are way more in line with the democratic party rather than the republican party. I never knew that articulating my political views was seen as bigotry. I've had many many many debates on A2k regarding political topics. Even when I disagree with someone, I RESPECTFULLY articulate the reason for my disagreement. Sometimes I might even throw some light political humor into a discussion. I try to never show disrespect or intolerance toward anyone for disagreeing with me. On the other hand, when someone shows disrespect or intolerance toward me for not agreeing with them, then the gloves come off. If you want respect, you have to give respect. If you want tolerance, you have to display tolerance. Don't mistake my kindness to being a fool. I can dish it out with the best of them. I prefer a cordial respectful conversation. That is the best way of debating. I will leave it up to you, to dictate the tone in which you wish to debate with me.

When you make blanket statements like "Infringement of rights by the government", why don't you say exactly what you are implying. You already knew that I believe in reasonable gun safety laws. That's no secret. I'm almost certain that you and I have had this discussion before. Now, if you want to rehash the debate regarding the 2nd amendment right of the constitution, just say so. As you SHOULD already know, constitutional rights are not ABSOLUTE without restrictions. Reasonable restrictions to constitutional rights are implicitly understood. Although, we have freedom of religion, it is implicitly understood that human sacrifices are not permitted. Freedom of speech doesn't allow someone to yell fire in a crowded theater when there is no fire. Freedom of press doesn't mean the press has the absolute right to have UNFETTERED access to highly secured classified facilities. The debate is not whether or not we have the constitutional right to bear arm . The answer to that question is undeniably YES. The true debate is what REASONABLE restrictions can we have on this constitutional right, just like any constitutional right.

Now regarding you labeling me as a leftist socialist. Let's talk about that. If you want to place that label on me, let's at least break it down. If supporting the very existence of Social Security, then you are correct. If supporting the very existence of Medicare and Medicaid, then you are correct. If supporting the Veterans Administration providing medical care to our veterans, then you are correct. If supporting the very existence of public schools providing access to all students, then you are correct. If supporting the very existence of the (FDA) Food and Drug Administration overseeing the safety of the food and drugs that we are putting into our bodies, then you are correct. If supporting public police and firefighters rather than some for private police and firefighters, then you are correct. If supporting the existence of the (EPA) Environmental Protection Agency ensuring that private companies are not dumping poison into our air, ground, and water, then you are correct. If you are opposed to these so-called leftist socialist entities and programs, that is your right.

I love America. Yes, America is not perfect. No country is perfect. I love America and all of the wonderful things in a America. It is a great country. Yes, I am a military veteran. I served proudly. Let me make this very clear to you, I LOVE AMERICA. You questioning my patriotism and love of this country makes me sick to my stomach.

cicerone imposter
 
  3  
Reply Sun 18 Sep, 2016 02:22 pm
@Real Music,
Quote:

Your words, your insulting tone, and your deliberate attempt to denigrate an entire race of human beings clearly meets the definition of bigot and racist. You have deliberately chose to cherry pick a piece of data for the Sole and Only Purpose of denigrating an entire race of human beings. You are the one who is disappointed in an entire race of human beings. So, if you want to thank me for pointing out the definition of bigot or racist, you're welcome. Just be clear that this definition describes you in every detail. This definition describes you to the letter.


I agree with your statement above.
0 Replies
 
giujohn
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 18 Sep, 2016 03:14 pm
@Real Music,
You called AC. Despicable hateful racist human being...now maybe you can find for me where he launched an unjustified unprovoked attack where he called you like names because I can't find it.

As for the second amendment other than having the right to a nuclear device or a firearm that can't be beared, what are these "safety" laws?

As for socialism I'm referring to as an example redistributing wealth or free college and health care as a "right".
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Sun 18 Sep, 2016 03:16 pm
@giujohn,
You can't find it because you are made up of the same gene.
RABEL222
 
  2  
Reply Sun 18 Sep, 2016 05:30 pm
@cicerone imposter,
The longer he posts the more confused his posts have become. Most of his last post made no sense.
0 Replies
 
Real Music
 
  3  
Reply Sun 18 Sep, 2016 05:34 pm
@giujohn,
Quote:
You called AC. Despicable hateful racist human being...now maybe you can find for me where he launched an unjustified unprovoked attack where he called you like names because I can't find it.
Whether I was attacked directly or indirectly, attacking my entire race is ultimately an attack against me. First AC deliberately cherry picked a very specific piece of statistical data for the sole purpose of denigrating my entire race. The very same race, that in his words are disappointing. After he posted this cherry picked statistical data, he felt the hateful need to continue posting that same cherry picked data multiple times over and over and over again.(By the way, I strongly suspect that AC is a black man). AC never differentiated any particular or individual black person. His blanket statement was that black people disappoint him. Not an individual or a person. He states that he is disappointed in black people as a race. An attack on my entire race is an indirect attack on me.


Quote:
As for the second amendment other than having the right to a nuclear device or a firearm that can't be beared, what are these "safety" laws?
What is REASONABLE gun safety can and should be debated. What some people find reasonable may be unreasonable for other people. That is the reason we should have the discussion so we as a society can make the determination on what is REASONABLE. (Before I go any further with this conversation, I am strongly opposed to the Gun Manufacturers making the determination of what is not reasonable. They clearly have a vested interest in selling anything and everything to everyone with no restrictions regarding firearms. Greed over public safety). I believe it is reasonable to have background checks on ALL gun sales. I believe that banning machine guns, bazookas, and RPGs is a reasonable restriction. I believe that banning the sale of fire arms to individuals who have been declared mentally insane or mentally unstable would be reasonable. Those are just examples. Some people, like yourself, may find those examples to not be reasonable. That is fine for you to think that. To say that is an infringement on the 2nd amendment would be disingenuous. No constitutional right is absolute with no restrictions. Any constitutional scholar would confirm that constitutional rights implicitly have reasonable restrictions.


Quote:
As for socialism I'm referring to as an example redistributing wealth or free college and health care as a "right".
Yes you are correct that I believe in redistributing of wealth. I believe the super wealthy should pay higher percentage of their income to help fund the government. The more the super wealthy pay in taxes, the less the working class would have to pay in taxes. I am strongly opposed to those government programs that greatly benefit big wealthy corporations. As far as government programs that benefit the poor and working class, I strongly support. Everything from college Pell grants, low income housing assistance, Medicare, Medicaid, free and reduced school lunch programs, (WIC) Women Infant Children program, unemployment insurance, food stamps or food assistance, and other compassionate government programs.

As far as free health care as a right is concern, we essentially already have versions of that already. One version is Medicare for people over the age of 65. Another version is Medicaid for people who are beneath a certain poverty level. Another is the Veterans Administration which provides health care for our veterans. Should there be a single-payer system like a Medicare for all to cover all ages. I support such a system and I believe the super wealthy big corporations should pay significantly more in taxes than what they are currently paying. I don't know if you support the three versions of free health care that we already have, or if you believe they should be discontinued.

Now as far as free college is concern, I'm not completely on board with this proposal. I'm okay with expanding Pell grants to make more students eligible. I'm okay with guaranteeing low cost student loans. My view could change at some point. At this time I'm not on board of everyone having the right to free college.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Sep, 2016 06:52 pm
@Real Music,
Quote:
I support such a system and I believe the super wealthy big corporations should pay significantly more in taxes than what they are currently paying.


I totally agree with you on this point. If they made their wealth in this country, they can contribute more to this country by helping the less fortunate amongst us.

Even Warren Buffett said the rich should pay more, and he's in that group.
I like people like Bill Gates who contributes his own money around the world to help children.

https://www.looktothestars.org/celebrity/bill-gates
Real Music
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Sep, 2016 06:59 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
If they made their wealth in this country, they can contribute more to this country by helping the less fortunate amongst us.
I couldn't have said it any better. That is right on point.

cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Sep, 2016 07:01 pm
@Real Music,
Just don't expect anything from Donald Trump. With the others, we can hope.
0 Replies
 
Real Music
 
  2  
Reply Sun 18 Sep, 2016 07:36 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
Even Warren Buffett said the rich should pay more, and he's in that group.
I like people like Bill Gates who contributes his own money around the world to help children.
Both Bill Gates and Warren Buffet have a well documented history of donating billions with a B to charity all over the world. I commend both of them for their compassion and generosity.

giujohn
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 19 Sep, 2016 11:22 am
@Real Music,
Real Music wrote:

Quote:
You called AC. Despicable hateful racist human being...now maybe you can find for me where he launched an unjustified unprovoked attack where he called you like names because I can't find it.
Whether I was attacked directly or indirectly, attacking my entire race is ultimately an attack against me. First AC deliberately cherry picked a very specific piece of statistical data for the sole purpose of denigrating my entire race. The very same race, that in his words are disappointing. After he posted this cherry picked statistical data, he felt the hateful need to continue posting that same cherry picked data multiple times over and over and over again.(By the way, I strongly suspect that AC is a black man). AC never differentiated any particular or individual black person. His blanket statement was that black people disappoint him. Not an individual or a person. He states that he is disappointed in black people as a race. An attack on my entire race is an indirect attack on me.


Quote:
As for the second amendment other than having the right to a nuclear device or a firearm that can't be beared, what are these "safety" laws?
What is REASONABLE gun safety can and should be debated. What some people find reasonable may be unreasonable for other people. That is the reason we should have the discussion so we as a society can make the determination on what is REASONABLE. (Before I go any further with this conversation, I am strongly opposed to the Gun Manufacturers making the determination of what is not reasonable. They clearly have a vested interest in selling anything and everything to everyone with no restrictions regarding firearms. Greed over public safety). I believe it is reasonable to have background checks on ALL gun sales. I believe that banning machine guns, bazookas, and RPGs is a reasonable restriction. I believe that banning the sale of fire arms to individuals who have been declared mentally insane or mentally unstable would be reasonable. Those are just examples. Some people, like yourself, may find those examples to not be reasonable. That is fine for you to think that. To say that is an infringement on the 2nd amendment would be disingenuous. No constitutional right is absolute with no restrictions. Any constitutional scholar would confirm that constitutional rights implicitly have reasonable restrictions.


Quote:
As for socialism I'm referring to as an example redistributing wealth or free college and health care as a "right".
Yes you are correct that I believe in redistributing of wealth. I believe the super wealthy should pay higher percentage of their income to help fund the government. The more the super wealthy pay in taxes, the less the working class would have to pay in taxes. I am strongly opposed to those government programs that greatly benefit big wealthy corporations. As far as government programs that benefit the poor and working class, I strongly support. Everything from college Pell grants, low income housing assistance, Medicare, Medicaid, free and reduced school lunch programs, (WIC) Women Infant Children program, unemployment insurance, food stamps or food assistance, and other compassionate government programs.

As far as free health care as a right is concern, we essentially already have versions of that already. One version is Medicare for people over the age of 65. Another version is Medicaid for people who are beneath a certain poverty level. Another is the Veterans Administration which provides health care for our veterans. Should there be a single-payer system like a Medicare for all to cover all ages. I support such a system and I believe the super wealthy big corporations should pay significantly more in taxes than what they are currently paying. I don't know if you support the three versions of free health care that we already have, or if you believe they should be discontinued.

Now as far as free college is concern, I'm not completely on board with this proposal. I'm okay with expanding Pell grants to make more students eligible. I'm okay with guaranteeing low cost student loans. My view could change at some point. At this time I'm not on board of everyone having the right to free college.



I checked, AC did not call you any names. All he did was quote a statistic... A statistic that was posted on a site that apparently is slanted to the right not the left but the statistic was garnered from a US Government site. I'm wondering how you make the determination of what he meant by posting the statistic. It looks to me as though he was Playing devil's advocate or purposely being provocative to start a discussion. What I do know is that you called him names and were disrespectful.

I note with interest that you did not answer what you think a reasonable safety law is.

I'm also not aware of any gun manufacturer that has made any legislation. Last I heard manufacturing the gun was not illegal therefore the sale of that gun is also legal. As for their greed we are a capitalist Society they're in business to make money you can call profit greed but then again you have to apply that to just about any business wouldn't you. As for machine guns Bazookas and RPGs the private possession of those are strictly controlled by the federal government.

You say you would like to see background checks for all gun sales. So I'm assuming that you understand that any gun that is sold by a federally licensed dealer already has to have a background check so then I assume you want all Private Sales also to have a background check. It's one thing to require a dealer who can only sell firearms through a federally licensed procedure to adhere to the background check law. Now it's another thing to ask a private citizen who legally owns an item to get permission from the government to sell that item to someone else. And I'm sure at this point you're going to say it's a public safety issue.

The problem with that thinking is where does it stop. People are killed by automobiles by the thousands every year in this country should we now require the private seller of a car to have a background check done on the individual purchasing it. Cigarettes kill thousands of people should we then require people who would sell a cigarette to someone to require a background check to make sure that they're not selling it to someone under 18. See the problem is liberals have no qualms about government stepping into every facet of their life... And that's exactly what the framers were afraid of.

And as far as your not understanding how the second amendment protects the other nine...That's very simple. If tomorrow the president by executive Fiat created legislation curtailing a portion of your free speech and if the citizenry felt that he was in direct violation of the Constitution but he was protected by the military how would the citizenry rise up against a tyrannical government without the benefit of arms?

As for your socialist views this country is based on capitalism. Socialism is just another form of communism and that form of government has proved to be inefficient ineffective and unstable. As it is the rich in this country pay the majority of the taxes. And putting further burdens on industry and big business only hurts the middle class because business is in business to make a profit and they will pass the burden on to the consumer in the way of higher prices.

As for giving everything away free college Healthcare welfare after a point why the hell should I even go to work? Why don't I just stay in my home and let the government take care of my needs?

After while there won't be anyone left to tax to support all these free programs. Because you see the government doesn't have their own money they get their money from the people who work and from Big Business. Unless of course they just start printing more and more and more money until it becomes totally worthless.

Your ideas are utopian and naive. And in every instance in history where the government was in control of the people's lives and wealth was distributed those societies eventually collapsed. So what makes you think it would work now? The founding fathers feared one thing above all others... a central government that controlled the people's lives. A government where the people have to ask permission, where the people must answer to the government instead of the government answering to the people.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Sep, 2016 11:31 am
@giujohn,
Any statistics that only shows a negative against a group of people is suspect. What is any person trying to prove by showing one negative statistics against one group in this country?
Here's a statistic people like you love to ignore.
Most violent crimes in the United States are committed by whites.

http://www.amren.com/news/2015/07/new-doj-statistics-on-race-and-violent-crime/
giujohn
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 19 Sep, 2016 11:46 am
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

Any statistics that only shows a negative against a group of people is suspect. What is any person trying to prove by showing one negative statistics against one group in this country?
Here's a statistic people like you love to ignore.
Most violent crimes in the United States are committed by whites.

http://www.amren.com/news/2015/07/new-doj-statistics-on-race-and-violent-crime/



So we must fear a negative statistics now. Hmm... sounds like just another way to control speech.

And no one is arguing that the majority of crime is committed by white people after all they are the majority race. The argument is when a population that is only 12% of the whole is committing crime almost equal to the majority that's a problem. And pretending that it doesn't exist is also a problem.

And here is a statistic I guess you don't want to admit:

Black males under the age 18 commits more violent crime then whites. And they probably only makeup about two or 3% of the total population.

The problem will never be fixed because people like you are afraid to discuss the problem for fear of being labeled a racist. That's how liberals curtail freedom of speech...Never say anything negative about the minority... even if it's true.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Sep, 2016 11:55 am
@giujohn,
How am I controlling speech? You're free to post any BS you wish on any media in the US. It's protected by the US Constitution.
 

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