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Today the British Parliament bans hunting with dogs

 
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Feb, 2005 05:50 pm
I used to be a hunter. Im not anymore. Not because of some sudden insight into "animal rights", but because it was getting dangerous with HP rifles. Hunters in the US , do more for keeping lands open and species viable than does PETA. PETA is a reactionary bunch of PC d-bags that have absolutely no concept of the interlaced web of life.
Here in Pa, weve got a deer herd management problem. In the suburbs and rubeurbs, the deer populations atre exploding, and human/deer (high velocity) interactions are getting to be significant in the statistics of accident causes. Without thinning, deer are , in forested areas killing the forest understory and forcing almost monoculture status on certain forests.

Most hunters (of course there are a few nitwits, but there are such types in any cross section of population) are serious stewards of land and species. Most hunters I know hunt for the sport and the food.
What if the only way you could get your schnitzel was to bash it in the head yourself?

The anti hunting crowd has never come up with any solutions to niche degredation, diseases in animals caused by crowding, and species declines in non-sport animals, whereas the hunters have work groups, sponsor research, and actively promote land preservation.

The last PETA fest I was at was in Rockland Maine when Mary Tyler Moore bought up an entire truckload of live lobsters and then turned them loose into the Gulf of Maine near Rockland. It was the most stupid brain dead act of PC selfish " F-you lobster-lovers" Id ever seen. It had no effect except to cause the death of lobsters by slow strangulation and starvation cause they didnt even remove the damn rubber bands on half of them.

Animals should be treated with respectas part of the ecosystem. They dont have any "Rights"
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cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Feb, 2005 06:06 pm
I'm not afraid of the high powered rifles, just the idiots who don't indentify their target, and what's beyond. I wish you'd reconsider FM. We need ethical people such as yourself to promote hunting to our youth, so the outdoor sports don't die from the crush of urbanian charms. Thanks for the great post!
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farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Feb, 2005 06:18 pm
I belong to a couple of sportsmens organizations like Ducks Unlimited and Isaac, and Sons of the GAmecock.
I share the philosophy of the hunters because they are the only ones really doing anything about the rapid suburban sprawl. Many orgs , like Sierra and Sea Shepherds ( a bit radical I know) are supporters of the conservation activities of hunters.

Every year I think about taking up turkey hunting or goose hunting cause I like the taste of wild birdies. I just dont care to be in the mass hunting experience with a .30 06 , Im a pussy around the hi power rifles. AND, i dont like the taste of deer meat much.
Gimme a shotgun and a walk in the woods or sitting quietly and talking a turkey in and I get nostalgic for past hunts.
People whove never hunted can never understand.
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cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Feb, 2005 01:20 am
Ditto.
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Mr Stillwater
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Feb, 2005 01:27 am
Well, according to this brain-dead f*ck....

This....
http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2005/02/18/hunt_wideweb__430x236.jpg

and this....
http://www.wildland.com/wildnews/images/Bushman_Group_Hunt2.jpg

is identical.

Quote:
Roger Scruton, 61, a philosopher and author of On Hunting, brought his four-year-old daughter, Lucy, for her first hunt. Hunting, he said, had transformed him into a "real person". "This is a return to being hunter-gathers, which is what we truly are. It is about being both with animals and above them.

"You Australians are anxious about being hunter-gatherers because you eradicated them."
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Mr Stillwater
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Feb, 2005 01:30 am
Yeah, being a hunter-gatherer in Australia means having no rights and possibly being beaten to death by the cops. In the UK it means an hereditary seat in the House of Lords, millions of tax-free pounds, overseas trips and regular birching by your mistress.
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msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Feb, 2005 01:32 am
So the British aristocracy eats foxes, then? Shocked
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cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Feb, 2005 01:35 am
I'm not sure, but I'm taking that as a pro-hunt comment...

I just hope that when I retire and have time to spend on the little hunting land I own, that the gentrified won't have bought up all the surrounding land and put up "No hunting or trespassing" signs, choosing instead of live out the end of their lives watching the world pass them by, while heading down the local roadhouse for their mustard encrusted loin of farm raised venison.
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Mr Stillwater
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Feb, 2005 01:44 am
live out the end of their lives watching the world pass them by......

Injury Description- Multiple hits to the upper torso and head from the discharge of shotgun.
Cause/Circumstance- Shooter was seated against a tree along a field edge. Victim was walking along field edge still hunting turkeys. Shooter thought victim was "struting" and also thought he saw some red. Shooter shot victim at a distance of 142 feet. No white, blue or red was displayed on victim.

Injury Description- Pellets to upper-right chest. One pellet to face below left eye.
Cause/Circumstance- Shooter was shooting at turkey. Victim was investigating the person trespassing on his property when struck by the pellets.

Hood River County: The shooter (male, age 49) had identified bear tracks in the area on previous days. He saw a black movement early in the morning in the area he expected to see a bear and fired one shot from his scoped, single shot Ruger .300 Weatherby. He was about 300 yards from the victim who was wearing a dark blue coat and jeans. The shooter has been indicted by grand jury with second-degree manslaughter. FATAL.


Least they get to watch it go by....
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Vivien
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Feb, 2005 03:23 am
cjhsa wrote:
I

And yet you love cats, who kill purely for fun. You're such a hypocrite.


My cats have never yet killed anything - for fun or otherwise and my cat killing something does not make me a hypocrite Rolling Eyes

You obviously think my cats are highly intelligent that they can make intellectual judgements on the rights and wrongs of killing Laughing
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farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Feb, 2005 06:13 am
Look, the non huntersof the world will never be in accord with hunters. The vast majority of hunters are responsible people, thats why, when you can find an article such as Stillys, it truly is an anomaly. Last year there were thousands of hunters in the woods of Pa and, I bleive that there were 5 accidents, most of which were heart attacks suffered by out of shape individuals. Im sure there were some accidents involving guns but, the news , usually quick to find articles about "irresponsible hunters" didnt post any in our region. That number is bout a normal day in DC excluding knifings and bludgeonings.

Fox hunting may be a bit of an anachronism but its no more bizarre than all sorts of "pet shows"or NASCAR, or "War re enactors" or soccer games wherein hundreds of people run amuck when their team comes up short (orwhen it wins, Ive never really understood the whole point of the soccer fans mind).Noones out there banning soccer .
You cannot indict an entire group with a "Heres an example of the crazy hunters gone totally bonkers", story, or Ill post articles about supermarket tramplings or "roid rage" in baseball players.

If it were not for the hunters and fishermen in many states of the US, the outdoors would be a sad diced up place indeed. The hunters are now in a political war with the lumber giants up in MAine, because the lumber companies wish to sell off huge tracts of land to resort developments . The huge LNG facilities being sited in Native merican lands becuase of treaty loopholes are being fought by the fishermen. Most non-hunters just sit an bitch about how the land is being f*'d up , but dont get their hands dirty.

So please, spare me the heart rending PETA line and let the hunters alone. They actually do more so that you can enjoy the remaining vistas before all remaining vistas aregobbled up by Wal MArts.
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Vivien
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Feb, 2005 08:39 am
sorry Farmer - on this one we can't agree.


I agree that many of the pet shows are bizarre and some breeds are downright cruel (short noses that make it difficult for the animal to breathe etc) but that's a whole different subject.

the issue here is simple and is about hunting and killing for fun being wrong.
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farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Feb, 2005 09:46 am
Lets all go back over to cavs thread and bombard Buttercup with good wishes and prayers. They had to take cav back to the hospital and hes in ICU.
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ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Feb, 2005 09:51 am
Oh, please do that, farmerman.
They need all the good thoughts they can get.
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Vivien
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Feb, 2005 03:25 pm
it sounded nasty Crying or Very sad
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cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Feb, 2005 04:14 pm
Cats are intelligent animals who like to play with their (live) food.
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msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Feb, 2005 04:54 pm
<sigh>

... and fox hunters are "interesting"people, who get their thrills & chills in the strangest ways by .........................?

Farmerman, there's a lot of difference between someone hunting wild animals for food, or survival, than someone who gets their pleasure from a "sport" which involves hounding some poor animal to it's death. I don't care if foxes are vermin, there should be more humane ways of reducing their numbers ... but that's not what this "sport" is about at all.
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farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Feb, 2005 10:00 pm
I stated that fox hunting may be an anachronism , BUT, My support of hunting is like the NRA's support of all kinds of weapons. I may not like fox hunting because it serves no real purpose. However, the fox hunting clubs around me , are responsible for keeping huge tracts of land open and accessible to all kinds of out door activiites. In the US, we dont kill the fox, the fox is run to ground and the day ends with lots of partying and ****. More damage occurs when everyone drives home in their Porches and 500S'sand wiping out deer .
I sense some class envy in here. I live out in an area wherein fox hunting is a seasonal event with many famous "Hunts" . Rules are obeyed and its highly ritualized, sorta like Sumo wrasslin, except with horses. The actual fox hunts are more social events in which a bunch of people dress up really gay and get on their horses and chase around fields and woods. I grant access to my fields because the hunts only occur in fall and winter when theres no real crop damage. The hounds are chasing a fox from one point to another, and then, at a given signal. The hunt master has them regrouped and they are taken back to their kennels. Once in a while asome really dumb ones wind up on our porch and sit there for hours , we usually call the hunt master and he has them picked up and life goes on.
I dont know how it is in UK, but thats about as exciting as watching your whites dry. Im pretty much of a dewey on a horse so my wife and daughter have gone (on someone elses horses) . All I remember was that it cost a bundle to get the silly pants and hat (they rented the hunt jackets).
We get invited to their parties but rarely go . BUT , they are just regular people with hardly any bloodthirstiness that I can detect. They seem quite normal, just dying for something to do on a soggy fall Saturday.
For that, we have over 2500 acres around us in various sized chunks of mostly undeveloped land. Fair trade? you bet.

Now , we do have coyotes that , whenever I see in a far distant field, I have a gun that delivers a small bullet with a 4000 ft/sec punch. I SHOOT COYOTES , and just leave em lay for the buzzrds. That makes me worse than the fox hunters who dont even kill their prey.
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msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Feb, 2005 01:34 am
<sigh>

farmerman

We are never going to see eye to eye on this, I can see. I feel (passionately) that any activity that leads to the unnecessary suffering or distress of animals by humans in the pursuit of frivolous entertainment is just plain wrong. I feel the same about say, rabbits being used to test cosmetics for the human "beauty" industry. Lots of other examples, too. Frankly, I see your swift & efficient killing of your coyotes as kinder & having a more justifiable purpose than fox hunting.
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Mr Stillwater
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Feb, 2005 01:40 am
No - I just object to fox-hunting because the practitioners are worthless, overbearing, reactionary, in-bred, thought-challenged bastards. Chasing some wild creature for the vicarious thrill of letting it be torn to shreds by your dogs offends my sensibilities, it is that simple - f#ck 'em all.
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