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Today the British Parliament bans hunting with dogs

 
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Feb, 2005 04:50 pm
Hunting isn't barbaric, much less so than buying meat at the grocery store and supporting factory farms. Just because 2/3 of any group of people think one way doesn't necessarily make them right.

Hunting is a highly effective wildlife management tool. The key is education, as in any endeavour.

Let me throw some stats at you. Hunters and anglers were the ones who created the wildlife oversite agencies in the U.S. when the populations of game were decimated by overhunting and population expansion. In 1900, there were less than 1/2 million whitetail deer in the nation. Today there are almost 40,000,000. There were only 41,000 rocky mountain elk, today there are 1,200,000. Less than 100,000 wild turkey roamed the countryside, today there are almost 6,000,000.

People who hunt and fish are the ones that are the most connected to the land and wildlife, even moreso than farmers and other managers of our wildlife resources. That point cannot be made enough.
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Vivien
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Feb, 2005 11:46 am
we'll never agree - I totally disagree with you on all points.


incidentally people don't eat foxes

Oscar Wilde: The unspeakable in pursuit of the uneatable
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cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Feb, 2005 12:16 pm
How can you disagree with facts? You choose ignorance?
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Vivien
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Feb, 2005 05:29 am
I disagree with a barbaric opinion not facts.

Facts are the majority of people in our country are opposed to hunting and find it barbaric. Fact is that people used to enjoy bullbaiting, dogfighting, cockfighting, dancing bears tortured and prodded to 'dance' which we have long since banned as barbaric. Just because you enjoy it doesn't make it right.
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cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Feb, 2005 11:03 am
I really can't understand people like you. On one hand, you're all about getting back to the land (organic meats, dairy, produce), and then you reject hunting out of hand, preferring to have someone else do the killing for you. Believe me, even vegans kill and eat animal protein, whether they intend to or not.

I think you're sick.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Feb, 2005 11:25 am
cjhsa wrote:
I really can't understand people like you. On one hand, you're all about getting back to the land (organic meats, dairy, produce), and then you reject hunting out of hand, preferring to have someone else do the killing for you. Believe me, even vegans kill and eat animal protein, whether they intend to or not.

I think you're sick.


I think you're sick.
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cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Feb, 2005 11:26 am
Explain why. I doubt you can without basing it strictly on emotion and not facts.
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Vivien
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Feb, 2005 12:33 pm
some of us just find people who enjoy killing for fun objectionable - clear enough?
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cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Feb, 2005 01:15 pm
Killing for FUN? Who ever said that? You CLEARLY don't know what you're talking about.

In fact, the actual taking of an animal is truly anti-climactic. It's the hunt, trying to find and outsmart the animal, and being in the outdoors that is the fun part. Hunters are just like bird/animal watchers, only after a little while, we start shooting. And, unlike anti-hunters and their terrorist organizations, such as PETA, we actually follow the laws.

Now, in the case of this thread, England has once again slapped its good citizens in the face with legislation created by urban numbnuts who've never caught a fish and think hamburger comes from the grocery store.

In the true spirit of the wild "I love animals. They're delicious."
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Feb, 2005 01:21 pm
cjhsa wrote:
Killing for FUN? Who ever said that? You CLEARLY don't know what you're talking about.

In fact, the actual taking of an animal is truly anti-climactic. It's the hunt, trying to find and outsmart the animal, and being in the outdoors that is the fun part. Hunters are just like bird/animal watchers, only after a little while, we start shooting. And, unlike anti-hunters and their terrorist organizations, such as PETA, we actually follow the laws.

Now, in the case of this thread, England has once again slapped its good citizens in the face with legislation created by urban numbnuts who've never caught a fish and think hamburger comes from the grocery store.

In the true spirit of the wild "I love animals. They're delicious."

Quote:
Fox hunting
chase of the fox by horsemen with a pack of hounds. In England, the home of the sport, fox hunting dates from at least the 15th century. Opinion varies as to when it originated. In its inception, it was probably an adjunct to stag and hare hunting, with the same hounds used to chase each quarry.

Modern fox hunting took shape in the 19th century shortly after Hugo Meynell?-the father of the modern English chase?-started hunting; and it soon developed into a national upper-class pastime. Traditional procedure is still observed and the proper kit worn. A fox hunt is conducted by the master, and, in theory, all who take part in it do so at his invitation even when they pay for the privilege. The hounds, generally 15 to 20 couples (matched pairs), are controlled by the huntsman, who may be the master himself but who is generally the senior paid servant of the hunt. Two or three whippers-in assist in reconnaissance and in keeping the hounds together as a pack. Master, huntsman, and whippers-in take precedence over all other riders to hounds. The huntsman controls hounds by voice, his calls being known as cheers, and by his horn?-a copper tube about eight inches long that produces two notes of great carrying and penetrating quality.

A day's hunting begins with a meet, at which the followers join the hounds, acknowledge the master, and are frequently offered hospitality by one of their number who acts as host for the occasion. On the command of the master, hounds move off to draw (search) the covert, which may be woodland, a patch of gorse, or a field in which it is suspected that a fox may be. When the fox is found, the fact being signaled by the cry of hounds, notes of the horn, and the shout "Tally-ho," the hunt begins and ordinarily proceeds to the stage at which the fox is viewed, a moment signaled by a holloa, a high-pitched cry. If a kill follows, the brush (tail), mask (head), and pads (feet) of the fox may be given as trophies by the master to any followers whom he considers to deserve the honour. The body of the fox is then thrown to the hounds.

Fox-hunting uniform is usually a scarlet coat with white stock (cravat) and black velvet cap for the master, huntsman, and whippers-in. Followers of sufficient prestige are invited to wear scarlet, with the individual buttons of the hunt, and top hat (the velvet cap being strictly the prerogative of those actively engaged in the control of hounds, though by modern usage women also wear it). Other followers wear black coats, with top hats or bowlers. In the case of some ancestral hunts run by noble families, the uniform may be green, yellow, or gray instead of scarlet.

Also the entourage of a hunt includes grooms; second horsemen, who ride relief horses for the master, his staff, and leading followers; and earth stoppers, who are supposed to close up all earths, or fox dens.

Before World War I, fox hunting reached a zenith of popularity as an English field sport. Horse and hound breeding had arrived at a highly developed state, and hunting itself was well organized and regulated by the Master of Foxhounds Association. The sport of fox hunting has surmounted a number of difficulties in the 20th century, notably changes in patterns of rural land ownership and use as great landowners were replaced by numerous small holders, proliferation of barbed-wire fences, shortages and other hardships caused by World Wars I and II, and some popular opposition on anti-cruelty and other grounds. Hunting continued, however, in the second half of the 20th century in England, Wales, Ireland, and parts of Scotland from November, when the harvest is gathered, until April, when new crops begin to grow. The sport is also practiced in similar season in some parts of the United States, Canada, New Zealand, and Australia.

source: "fox hunting." Encyclopædia Britannica. 2005. Encyclopædia Britannica Premium Service
18 Feb. 2005 <http://www.britannica.com/eb/article?tocId=9035066>.
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cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Feb, 2005 01:46 pm
Thanks for helping to prove my point Walter. 600 years of history tossed in the toilet by urban numbnut animal rights activists.

Thanks again.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Feb, 2005 01:57 pm
cjhsa wrote:
Thanks for helping to prove my point Walter. 600 years of history tossed in the toilet by urban numbnut animal rights activists.

Thanks again.


I really wonder, why the hell the colonies tried to get away from such folk.
(Nice reading: Rebecca Fraser: A People's History of Britain)

Quote:
urban numbnut animal rights activists
- you haven't read ANY of the previous links.
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cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Feb, 2005 02:10 pm
I read them quite thoroughly. When I see the words "animal rights" mentioned I stop reading, because there's no point.

Should animals be treated poorly? No. Do they have rights like a human? No.

Do you know that Ingrid Newkirk, the head of PETA, has publicly stated that she doesn't support animal testing on even one animal even if it would save millions of human lives to AIDS?

Better choose your friends carefully. I have.
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cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Feb, 2005 02:19 pm
You know, there are some really good bloodline hunting dogs and horses for sale right now. Get 'em before they're gone forever.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Feb, 2005 02:32 pm
How do you get the idea that I have something in comon with PETA or/and animal rightists?

I'm against fox hunting, that's all.

Germany has guaranteed animal rights in its Basic Law (constitution), btw:
Article 20a of the German Basic Law reads: "The state takes responsibility for protecting the natural foundations of life and animals in the interest of future generations."
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cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Feb, 2005 02:49 pm
I'll tell you exactly where it came from. If you support one type of hunting, and oppose another, it's hypocritical. Addressing wildlife concerns, managing hunts, are good things. Telling someone they can't use one method of hunting vs. another, well, that's just stupid. It's the pot calling the kettle black.

Let me give you an example of this, right from the good old USA. If bow hunting is legal, why are crossbows illegal (in some states)?

There is no good reason, except that people are stuck in their ways, and don't realize they are fighting against their own cause.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Feb, 2005 02:57 pm
cjhsa wrote:
If you support one type of hunting, and oppose another, it's hypocritical.


Sorry that my rersponse(s) were so unclear:
a) I am against fox hunting
b) I don't support hunting
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cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Feb, 2005 02:58 pm
And that's just stupid, especially when a quick search through the food & wine forums prove you to be a meat eater. Have a nice day.
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Vivien
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Feb, 2005 05:16 pm
Walter Hinteler wrote:
cjhsa wrote:
If you support one type of hunting, and oppose another, it's hypocritical.


Sorry that my rersponse(s) were so unclear:
a) I am against fox hunting
b) I don't support hunting


my stance almost exactly and I too object to being told who my 'friends' are and which organisations I support.

hunters are dinosaurs incapable of comprehending that the world moves on, barbarity is seen as such and banned and cjhsa says that killing the animals is not fun for him! Rolling Eyes Laughing but is incapable of just enjoying watching them without the kill - strange that Rolling Eyes

no cjhsa you haven't understood any of the posts here when you keep throwing out the same old red herrings and pathetic arguements.

as for hunters preserving species - otters were wiped out in large areas of England by idiot hunters. It has taken a long time for this law to be passed - public opinion has wanted it for many years now, it is no overnight situation. Finally we had a government prepared to take on the hunters who are squealing and crying loudly - poor things Twisted Evil
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cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Feb, 2005 05:20 pm
I very much enjoy watching animals. We hunters in the U.S. haven't wiped out anything, in fact, we're managing the populations in conjunction with our wildlife agencies, originally created by hunter conservationists.

And yet you love cats, who kill purely for fun. You're such a hypocrite.
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