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Today the British Parliament bans hunting with dogs

 
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Feb, 2005 02:39 am
Quote:
Scores of foxes die on a day which leaves questions over impact of hunting ban
By Severin Carrell
20 February 2005


Nearly 100 foxes were killed, as tens of thousands of hunt supporters and their dogs rode out this weekend for the first time since the Government's ban on hunting with hounds. The League Against Cruel Sports said they expected a number of prosecutions against hunters after gathering evidence of "suspicious behaviour". But after months of tension and warnings of a rural revolt, the day ended peacefully ­ unless you were a fox ­ with both sides claiming victory.

The pro-hunting Countryside Alliance said that 91 foxes were killed yesterday by the 260 hunts in England and Wales. Most were legally shot but a few were "accidentally" killed by dogs. Last night supporters said that little had changed since the ban on hunting was passed last week. The alliance's chief executive Simon Hart, said yesterday was "simply the first day in the dismantling of the Hunting Act".

The South Shropshire hunt ­ whose joint master is Otis Ferry, the son of rock star Brian Ferry ­ was the first to claim a legal "kill" within an hour of setting out near Shrewsbury yesterday. Clare Rowson, an alliance spokeswoman, said: "The fox was shot, taken out of the earth and then given to the hounds."

The League Against Cruel Sports had 100 "monitors" out spying on hunts yesterday. It claimed to have "credible" evidence that four hunts deliberately and illegally killed a fox with dogs, and would be submitting its video footage to the police.

The league's campaigns director, Mike Hobday, said the number of kills claimed by the hunts was far lower than on a normal Saturday before the ban, when as many as 400 foxes were often killed. "If it is true that only 91 were killed, this is more of a step forward than we had anticipated," he said. "The vast majority of hunts have hunted legally."

Meanwhile, police in Wiltshire made the first arrests under the new legislation, detaining four men at 4am yesterday with four dogs and a hare carcass.

At official hunting meets across the country, the pro-hunting movement defiantly insisted that the new ban was a temporary problem. Actor Jeremy Irons and former Labour sports minister Kate Hoey were among many followers who condemned the ban as "prejudiced and bigoted".

Ms Hoey, the Labour MP for Vauxhall in south London, told a crowd of 3,000 cheering supporters of the Beaufort hunt in Gloucestershire, that the act would eventually be repealed.

"Legal hunting will continue until such time, in my view, as either this Government or another sees sense," she said. Irons, who was attending the Bicester Hunt in Oxfordshire, claimed the ban was "the thin end of the wedge". He added: "England is made up of minorities whether Asian or huntsmen. I believe as a nation we should be allowed to live in liberty."

Tory MP Theresa May said the new ban would become "a lawyer's paradise". Echoing earlier warnings from Ms Hoey, she claimed huge problems would be encountered enforcing the law.

Simon Hart insisted the ban would soon become an "embarrassment" to Tony Blair. "There has been hunting in England for 700 years. The ban may take years, perhaps months, to unpick. It will be nothing more than a temporary break in normal service."
Source
0 Replies
 
Vivien
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Feb, 2005 04:03 am
Mr Stillwater wrote:
No - I just object to fox-hunting because the practitioners are worthless, overbearing, reactionary, in-bred, thought-challenged bastards. Chasing some wild creature for the vicarious thrill of letting it be torn to shreds by your dogs offends my sensibilities, it is that simple - f#ck 'em all.



people keep trying to use the red herring of 'class' issues - this is totally irrelevant as 'working class' yobs go out from the city in cars to watch and enjoy - you only need to be relatively wealthy to ride in your silly 'pink' jackets and keep your expensive horses.

I don't care what 'class' they are or how wealthy or not - I do find it sickening that old and new money seem to think that wealth means they can flout the law and do as they wish, including the abuse of animals (including the horses - who may be cosseted and well fed, but are hard hard ridden without concern for their welfare and are ridden into hunt saboteurs on foot and their cars without concern for any injury - mydaughter has seen this first hand) - in both UK and USA.

Been reading similar articles to the one Walter posted - we're in for a rocky ride.


I'm very pleased cjhsa thinks my cats are intelligent and capable of intellectual judgements.

I agree with every word msolga very eloquently said.
0 Replies
 
Vivien
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Feb, 2005 04:03 am
Mr Stillwater wrote:
No - I just object to fox-hunting because the practitioners are worthless, overbearing, reactionary, in-bred, thought-challenged bastards. Chasing some wild creature for the vicarious thrill of letting it be torn to shreds by your dogs offends my sensibilities, it is that simple - f#ck 'em all.



people keep trying to use the red herring of 'class' issues - this is totally irrelevant as 'working class' yobs go out from the city in cars to watch and enjoy - you only need to be relatively wealthy to ride in your silly 'pink' jackets and keep your expensive horses.

I don't care what 'class' they are or how wealthy or not - I do find it sickening that old and new money seem to think that wealth means they can flout the law and do as they wish, including the abuse of animals (including the horses - who may be cosseted and well fed, but are hard hard ridden without concern for their welfare and are ridden into hunt saboteurs on foot and their cars without concern for any injury - mydaughter has seen this first hand) - in both UK and USA.

Been reading similar articles to the one Walter posted - we're in for a rocky ride.


I'm very pleased cjhsa thinks my cats are intelligent and capable of intellectual and moral judgements. Laughing

I agree with every word msolga very eloquently said.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Feb, 2005 08:08 am
(equally passionate sigh))
I only seem to be hearing from the UK and former colonies on this issue. So my comment about "class envy" may be true . I dont hear the fox hunters calling you names or questioning your values.
Im going to drop out of this thread because

1 I think Ive made my opinion sufficiently clear and its getting a bit tedious doing nyah nyah nyah

2 When someone attempts to speak"in the name of (add issue here)" it always degrades into pointless name calling

3 The good that is done to try to keep some of the land in a teenie weenie country like UK still open goes totally out of the discussion

4There seems to be some implied criminality on this old tradition in the UK, which I dont understand. Did you ever see how minks are raised and made into coats? There are a lot of reALLY CRUEL THINGS THAT WE HUMANS DO, all in the name of commerce or sport.

5 Here in the US most (if not all) fox hunting results in the fox living for another exciting day.

what about falconry?
0 Replies
 
Vivien
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Feb, 2005 10:58 am
farmerman wrote:
(equally passionate sigh))
I only seem to be hearing from the UK and former colonies on this issue. So my comment about "class envy" may be true . I dont hear the fox hunters calling you names or questioning your values.
Im going to drop out of this thread because




if you lived here you would find out that they do! they also think they are above the law and don't intend to obey it.

as I said, it isn't class envy, nothing remotely to do with it other than that fox hunting has survived after dog fighting was ended because it was the wealthy and powerful who took part. This is fact not envy - absolutely non envious here!


The reason for hearing from the UK on this is because we've just passed a law after many years of the public wanting one in repeated opinion polls.


teenie weenie country? Evil or Very Mad hunting doesn't keep any land at all 'open' if you mean open to the public - it takes place on private land, across farms, even those who do not wish the hunt to cross their land. They do a fair amount of damage and often kill small dogs and pet cats.

- lot's of other issues need tackling but it just muddies the waters to drag them all in to this discussion - I totally agree with you on this but it needs its own thread. I would never wear fur.

we'll none of us with opposing views change each others minds I know but the law has changed by majority wish.
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Feb, 2005 10:38 am
I noticed you said "hunt saboteurs". Where I come from harrassment of legal hunting is itself illegal, as it should be. Apparently Vivien thinks that sabotage is a reasonable tactic.
0 Replies
 
Vivien
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Feb, 2005 04:17 pm
the hunt saboteurs are now legal whereas the hunters are illegal Very Happy

The hunt saboteurs didn't break the law anyway, simply protested, which is legal, blew horns to confuse the hounds, filmed and reported abuse etc


There are some issues that are important enough to protest and human rights issues and barbarity are such issues.
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Feb, 2005 04:30 pm
Wow, you are really screwed up.
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Feb, 2005 04:34 pm
Obviously there's nothing like Wyoming in GB.

http://www.northplattelodge.com/whathunt.htm
0 Replies
 
Vivien
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Feb, 2005 03:48 am
cjhsa wrote:
Obviously there's nothing like Wyoming in GB.

http://www.northplattelodge.com/whathunt.htm



thank God NO! Very Happy if caring about human rights issues and barbarity is considered screwed up by the population.
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Feb, 2005 10:07 am
You love your little nanny state eh?

I want to ban ________ ....

Fat people? What next!!!

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2005082504,00.html
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Feb, 2005 10:17 am
Here's some bees for viv's bonnet. The world leader in wetlands conservation was founded and is still operated by hunters.

http://www.ducks.org/

Archery and hunting is a highly effective way of taking inner city youth and, well, getting them out of the inner city and the mentality that goes along with it.

http://www.tnkfk.com/

You should also Google search on "Hunters for the hungry". You do eat meat, don't you?
0 Replies
 
Vivien
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Feb, 2005 03:54 pm
Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
Merry Andrew
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Feb, 2005 04:00 pm
Never mind dogs. This just in: in Khazakistan (sp?), they've just reintroduced hunting with birds of prey, specifically eagles. This was outlawed during the Communist rule as too upper-class. Just heard it on the radio (BBC overseas service, as a matter of fact).
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Feb, 2005 05:15 pm
Cool!
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Feb, 2005 02:47 am
Confused
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Feb, 2005 10:26 am
News from GB is that over the past (post ban) weekend is that more foxes than normal were killed because of no fair chase. They just flushed the foxes and shot them (still legal).
0 Replies
 
Grand Duke
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Feb, 2005 10:40 am
It's a crazy country that I have to call home...
0 Replies
 
Vivien
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Feb, 2005 12:13 pm
cjhsa wrote:
News from GB is that over the past (post ban) weekend is that more foxes than normal were killed because of no fair chase. They just flushed the foxes and shot them (still legal).



whereas in the past they flushed them and then watched with pleasure while they are torn apart by hounds - like I said - we knew it wouldn't be straightforward - the law will need adjusting until it works.
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Feb, 2005 12:20 pm
What, basically, ban everything, right viv? I think we should ban bans.
0 Replies
 
 

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