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Today the British Parliament bans hunting with dogs

 
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Feb, 2005 12:21 pm
As far as I know, cjhsa, hunt per se isn't illegal and it isn't really thought to ba it completely.

What I (we) tried to explain you a couple of times was about fox hunting with dogs.
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Vivien
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Feb, 2005 04:41 pm
cjhsa wrote:
What, basically, ban everything, right viv? I think we should ban bans.



silly remarks Rolling Eyes
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Mr Stillwater
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Feb, 2005 02:28 am
Yeah, ban anas!!!
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Feb, 2005 07:43 am
Quote:
Published: 2005/02/24 13:12:46 GMT

Hunt ban to be policed 'as usual'

The ban on hunting with dogs in England and Wales will be enforced like any other law by police and prosecutors, according to the attorney general.
Lord Goldsmith said enforcement would not be put on hold while a decision was made on whether the House of Lords will hear an appeal against the ban.

He made the comments amid anti-hunters' concerns that the police may treat the new Hunting Act as a low priority.

In a statement, he insisted: "The law will be enforced in the usual way."


Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/uk_politics/4294527.stm
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Feb, 2005 04:24 pm
Now its illegal
I feel it should be the birthright of every freeborn Englishman and dog.
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msolga
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Feb, 2005 04:58 am
Birthright? Confused
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Feb, 2005 05:51 am
Not really

Chasing after a wild animal and allowing dogs to tear it to pieces as a form of enjoyment is a barbaric and disgusting activity. Therefore by definition people who do it are barbaric and disgusting. But there I would leave it. I wouldn't ban it unless it resticted my rights. But now it is banned I wouldn't un-ban it either. Nor would I bring back bear baiting or dog fighting.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Oct, 2005 10:08 am
Quote:
Thursday, 13 October 2005

Law Lords stand by ban on hunting

Countryside campaigners have lost their latest bid to overturn the ban on hunting with dogs, after nine Law Lords unanimously ruled it would remain.
The Countryside Alliance had argued the legislation used to force the ban through in England and Wales - the 1949 Parliament Act - was illegal.

But Lord Bingham of Cornhill, head of the panel of Lords, said it was valid.

The Countryside Alliance vowed to fight on, while anti-hunt campaigners called it a "triumph for democracy".

Another challenge to the Hunting Act by the Countryside Alliance, under European human rights legislation, goes to appeal at the High Court next year.

Criminal offence

The case ruled on on Thursday was heard by nine of the 12 Law Lords, rather than the usual five, because of the constitutional importance of the case.
The Parliament Act was used by the government last November to push the hunting ban through following continuous opposition to a ban in the House of Lords.

The ban came into force on 18 February in England and Wales, making hunting with dogs a criminal offence.

Exercising hounds, chasing a scent trail and flushing out foxes to be shot are still legal.

Countryside Alliance chief executive Simon Hart said the Lords' ruling had come as "no surprise" but the fight would go on.

He said: "It was important we went down this route.

"The Law Lords, for technical reasons, found themselves unable to agree with our case - but the Attorney General takes a bit of a kicking in the judgement as well."

'People's will'

However, he added: "This judgement effectively gives the House of Commons the freedom - with no checks and balances - to do what it wants, to whom it wants, when it wants."

Mr Hart said the Alliance would continue to pursue the repeal of the Hunting Act "as vigorously as ever".

Chairman of the League Against Cruel Sports John Cooper said the ruling was a triumph for democracy, and for English and Welsh wildlife.

"We hope that the hunters will now realise that their attempts to frustrate the will of the majority of the people have been definitively quashed," he said.

"There can be no clearer message than the highest courts and the highest judges in the land confirming the Parliament Act. Hunting wild mammals with packs of dogs is a crime.

"Our message to the hunters is this - if you break the law, you will be prosecuted."
Source
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Oct, 2005 10:14 am
"Hunting wild mammals with packs of dogs is a crime. "

And I for one never in one million years thought it would be. Just goes to show some good things do come out of illegal wars.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Oct, 2005 10:17 am
We have had a couple of similar events around here recentyl - and the coming weekend it will be the biggest 'show' of such in our state [90 cohorts, whatever that means], but all without really hunting, only following an 'artifica'l track

http://www.warendorfer-meute.de/images/wmwasser.JPGhttp://www.warendorfer-meute.de/images/wasser.jpg

"Lippstadt - the Venice of Westphalia" :wink:
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Oct, 2005 10:26 am
well I'm all for that Walter

so long as the dogs can swim and the water is not too cold for them

and are provided with appropriate life saving vests in the official yellow colour...dont seem to be in your photo...this is outrageous!
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Oct, 2005 11:02 am
Those pics were taken in August, and it was very hot ... it's a weak excuse, I know, but at least the water wasn't cold.
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Oct, 2005 11:09 am
ok let you off this time walter

but next time

no doggy swimming without proper equipment and supervision.

a dog might have been drowned/exhausted/got cold/become wet and unhappy...
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Nov, 2005 01:31 am
Quote:
Dodging the ban: hunts flush foxes for owls to kill
By Jonathan Brown
Published: 01 November 2005

More than 50,000 hunters and their supporters will take to the field on Saturday vowing to test the Government's ban to breaking point. The fox hunting season officially starts today.

Campaigners say that hunts have been openly flouting the law in the pre-season period using hounds to chase and kill stags and foxes in open acts of defiance. Dozens of hunts are exploiting a loophole in the new law by continuing to hunt using birds of prey - outraging animal rights campaigners and professional falconers alike.

The League Against Cruel Sports said that it would quadruple its number of hunt monitors this season, equipping them with state-of-the-art recording equipment, in a bid to secure a conviction.

Despite more than 50 allegations of illegal hunting made to the police since the Hunting Act became law in February, not a single person has been charged.

Both the pro- and anti-bloodsports campaigners are arguing over what is and is not against the new law, and the Department of Environment, Food and Rural Affairs says it is now up to the courts to decide.

Many believe the result will be chaos this season. Tim Bonner of the Countryside Alliance said he was "delighted" that so many hunts were testing the legislation. "No one has any problem with people breaking the spirit of the law which came about because of the hatred of the Labour Party backbenchers. The problem is that it is unworkable. We will push it to the limits in every way that we can," he said.

The League Against Cruel Sports says the hunting ban is being flouted in two ways. The main way is in the use of hounds to "flush out" stags and foxes that have taken refuge in a wood or thicket. A pack of dogs can lawfully follow an animal's trail, and two are allowed to flush it out to a waiting gun.

But the law gives no time limit on how long the period of the chase after the flushing out and before the animal is shot should be. This loophole has resulted in extended periods of "relay hunting" using pairs of hounds to give chase. The act also draws no distinction between deer and foxes during the flushing out.

Campaigners say that stags are clearly visible to the hunters in all but the thickest of cover and therefore should be shot without resorting to hounds to flush them out.

The second way of bypassing the law is by exploiting a loophole allowing an unlimited number of hounds to flush foxes to a bird of prey. The growing number of hunts using eagle owls or golden eagles has prompted criticism from the Hawk Board, which organises falconry in Britain. Its chairman Jim Chick has complained to Defra that the birds are not natural predators of such large mammals and would be unable to dispatch their quarry without suffering. He has accused the Countryside Alliance of "betraying" falconers who marched with hunters to oppose the ban.

Up to 30 hunts are said to have purchased birds of prey at a cost of up to £10,000 each. Some hunts have admitted the birds have never been unleashed.

Douglas Batchelor, chief executive of the League Against Cruel Sports, said many hunts had converted to the "cruelty-free sports" of drag and trail hunting.

"However, it is clear that the Countryside Alliance's tactic of testing the law is going too far in some areas and a significant number of hunts are breaking the law." He added: "This season we shall be the eyes and ears of the countryside, monitoring hunts and passing on evidence to the police. Make no mistake - those who break the law will be prosecuted."

The Countryside Alliance, which has published a 44-page booklet for this season entitled How to Keep Hunting, is unabashed. "It might not be the same as it was but to those on the outside it looks, sounds and smells just like hunting before the Hunting Act," said Mr Bonner.

More than 50,000 hunters and their supporters will take to the field on Saturday vowing to test the Government's ban to breaking point. The fox hunting season officially starts today.

Campaigners say that hunts have been openly flouting the law in the pre-season period using hounds to chase and kill stags and foxes in open acts of defiance. Dozens of hunts are exploiting a loophole in the new law by continuing to hunt using birds of prey - outraging animal rights campaigners and professional falconers alike.

The League Against Cruel Sports said that it would quadruple its number of hunt monitors this season, equipping them with state-of-the-art recording equipment, in a bid to secure a conviction.

Despite more than 50 allegations of illegal hunting made to the police since the Hunting Act became law in February, not a single person has been charged.

Both the pro- and anti-bloodsports campaigners are arguing over what is and is not against the new law, and the Department of Environment, Food and Rural Affairs says it is now up to the courts to decide.

Many believe the result will be chaos this season. Tim Bonner of the Countryside Alliance said he was "delighted" that so many hunts were testing the legislation. "No one has any problem with people breaking the spirit of the law which came about because of the hatred of the Labour Party backbenchers. The problem is that it is unworkable. We will push it to the limits in every way that we can," he said.

The League Against Cruel Sports says the hunting ban is being flouted in two ways. The main way is in the use of hounds to "flush out" stags and foxes that have taken refuge in a wood or thicket. A pack of dogs can lawfully follow an animal's trail, and two are allowed to flush it out to a waiting gun.

But the law gives no time limit on how long the period of the chase after the flushing out and before the animal is shot should be. This loophole has resulted in extended periods of "relay hunting" using pairs of hounds to give chase. The act also draws no distinction between deer and foxes during the flushing out.
Campaigners say that stags are clearly visible to the hunters in all but the thickest of cover and therefore should be shot without resorting to hounds to flush them out.

The second way of bypassing the law is by exploiting a loophole allowing an unlimited number of hounds to flush foxes to a bird of prey. The growing number of hunts using eagle owls or golden eagles has prompted criticism from the Hawk Board, which organises falconry in Britain. Its chairman Jim Chick has complained to Defra that the birds are not natural predators of such large mammals and would be unable to dispatch their quarry without suffering. He has accused the Countryside Alliance of "betraying" falconers who marched with hunters to oppose the ban.

Up to 30 hunts are said to have purchased birds of prey at a cost of up to £10,000 each. Some hunts have admitted the birds have never been unleashed.

Douglas Batchelor, chief executive of the League Against Cruel Sports, said many hunts had converted to the "cruelty-free sports" of drag and trail hunting.

"However, it is clear that the Countryside Alliance's tactic of testing the law is going too far in some areas and a significant number of hunts are breaking the law." He added: "This season we shall be the eyes and ears of the countryside, monitoring hunts and passing on evidence to the police. Make no mistake - those who break the law will be prosecuted."

The Countryside Alliance, which has published a 44-page booklet for this season entitled How to Keep Hunting, is unabashed. "It might not be the same as it was but to those on the outside it looks, sounds and smells just like hunting before the Hunting Act," said Mr Bonner.
Source
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Nov, 2005 05:08 am
These hunters are very silly. Instead of just changing their habits to enjoy country pursuits within the law, they are determined to carry on "as normal" and wait for the law to be repealled. It wont be. Even by a Conservative government.
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goodfielder
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Nov, 2005 05:15 am
I'm old enough to remember stag hunting in the UK. As a kid I recall a front page photo - Daily Mirror I think - that showed a bunch of staghounds with the usual unspeakables on horses (don't get me wrong I love horses, owned a couple, I just despise mounted unspeakables) urging them on to attack a cornered stag in a river or stream (now I would say "creek"). If I remember rightly that one photo did it.

Time to prosecute the unspeakables vigorously.
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msolga
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Nov, 2005 05:21 am
A despicable excuse for "sport". Shame on them!
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Nov, 2005 05:39 am
msolga wrote:
A despicable excuse for "sport". Shame on them!


this is why I say they are being very silly in flouting or finding loopholes in the law. Now its banned, it will never come back. Like bear baiting. And if any political party stood on a pro hunting-with-dogs platform it would not get elected. And if a govt. once elected sneakily re introduced hunting with dogs, there really would be civil unrest. Its gone and good riddance.
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msolga
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Nov, 2005 05:46 am
Hear, hear!
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Nov, 2005 02:10 am
Quote:
Up to 100 foxes die as first season since ban gets under way, bloodily

By Greg Harkin and Steve Bloomfield
Published: 06 November 2005

http://www.independent.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00104/hunt1061105_104001b.jpg
The Cheshire Forest Hunt set off from Belmont Hall

The hunting ban was exposed as a farce again yesterday as scores of foxes died on the first day of the hunting season in England and Wales, with claims from protesters that some animals had been hunted down and killed illegally.

The pro-hunting Countryside Alliance said up to 100 foxes died as hundreds of thousands of hunters and spectators took part in more than 300 hunts on the opening of the first season since the practice was legally banned.

Anti-hunt protesters, many armed with cameras, monitored the day's events, watched by up to 3,000 police officers.

Hunt leaders were determined to test the legislation to the limit and more than 50 hunts used birds of prey to hunt down foxes.

Thirty-six riders and 31 hounds rode out with the historic Cheshire Forest Hunt and there, in an attempt to bypass the hunting ban, an eight-month-old Harris hawk, called Alice, was present.

Peter Heaton, joint master of the Cheshire, said: "Part of the exemptions is that you can use an unlimited number of hounds to flush for an unspecified mammal, and the process could include using a bird of prey. The hounds are not hunting, but they are flushing for the hawk to hunt. It's one of the ways we are testing the legislation."

Dr Jane Evans, who was monitoring the Cheshire, complained she was intimidated and insulted for much of the day. The hunt, she said, rode out with a full pack of hounds.

At Tony Blair's local hunt, several hundred spectators turned up at Sedgefield's Dun Cow Inn to see in the new season. Mark Shotton, the master of the hunt, also brought in a bird of prey to get around the new rules, this time a gigantic eagle owl.

Mr Shotton, 65, said: "We hunted within the law; I don't believe we had any choice in that. We must keep this hunt going, not least for the sake of tradition but also the many jobs that rely on trade from the 100-plus people that ride out with us."

The incidents infuriated hunt saboteurs across the country, with the League Against Cruel Sports claiming to have evidence of breaches of the ban. Mike Hobday, a spokesman for the organisation, said it had received reports of illegal hunting taking place yesterday. One hunt in Surrey, he said, had been caught on video chasing down a fox. The evidence was being passed to police.

"The tape shows the fox clearly being chased by hounds, and the riders going along, making no effort to stop them. It is a very clear chase of a fox," he said.

In Gloucestershire, at first glance, the first weekend of hunting by the " distinguished" Beaufort Hunt on the Badminton estate looked no different to any other year.
But, despite expressions of determination to soldier on from hunt leaders, hunting has changed. The scent did not lead to a fox. Instead, an " organic-based smell" had been laid along pre-arranged tracks. There was no quarry for the hounds.

At least, that was the plan. "Accidents happen," admitted Nigel Maidment, secretary of the hunt. "A fox can jump up - this is where they live, after all." Hunt officials claimed no fox was killed, although one young woman on horseback suggested otherwise. As the hunt passed a group of supporters, someone asked how it was going. She smiled and slashed her finger across her neck, indicating a death - of what, she did not say. Another woman on horseback added: "We shoot them now, you know. "

Ian Farquhar, joint master of the Beaufort, is hoping that in government under a new leader, the Conservatives would repeal the legislation. But the Tories, too, are divided.

Ann Widdecombe, Conservative MP for Maidstone and The Weald, criticised police forces for allowing the hunts to ride out for the new season despite the sport being banned.

"We passed a very generously spirited law," she said. "But the law is being flouted because it is either unworkable or the law enforcement agencies lack the will to make it workable."

Additional reporting by Jonathan Thompson

THE LAW
The Hunting Act 2004 makes hunting with dogs an offence in England and Wales.

The ban covers the hunting with dogs of all wild mammals, including fox, deer, hare and mink.

It is still legal to use dogs to hunt rabbits or rats, but there are strict limits to prevent fox-hunters going out with hounds claiming they are looking for rabbits.

It also makes it an offence for a person to allow their land or dogs to be used.

Police are given powers to arrest anybody they suspect to have committed these offences.

A person found guilty of an offence is liable to a fine of up to £5,000.

THE STATS
100 Foxes feared killed by hunts in England and Wales yesterday

£6,000 for one golden eagle; some of the birds were used in hunts in Co Durham

300,000 people taking part in, or supporting, hunts yesterday, said the Countryside Alliance

£5 for a pack of 10 Christmas cards featuring the Dunston Harriers hunt

2 dogs allowed to flush a fox to a waiting gun

3,000 police officers estimated on duty at hunts yesterday

20 new members yesterday at the Bilsdale Hunt, North Yorkshire

£30 cost oF family membership of the League Against Cruel Sports

157 breaches of legislation alleged by hunt saboteurs against hunts up to yesterday
Source
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