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Today the British Parliament bans hunting with dogs

 
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Dec, 2004 12:26 pm
There are usually no cougars in Britain.

When you look some pages back, Piffka, you'll find my response that we have here in Germany (today was just again one a couple of yards away) fox-hunts without killing as well - more, than the 'real' ones in the UK!
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Dec, 2004 12:27 pm
Btw: during 'normal' hunts, of course dogs are allowed here, as search and track hounds.
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Piffka
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Dec, 2004 12:39 pm
Walter Hinteler wrote:
There are usually no cougars in Britain.

When you look some pages back, Piffka, you'll find my response that we have here in Germany (today was just again one a couple of yards away) fox-hunts without killing as well - more, than the 'real' ones in the UK!


I think no cougars or lions in Britain or anywhere in Europe because they've been hunted down and killed, eh? Truly beautiful animals and I'm willing to go into the woods but I wonder if I'd take a small child anymore. Last time I was hiking, there were signs warning against recent cougar sightings. I just picked up a big rock and assumed that would be enough protection.

I missed any link about drag-hunting in Germany, Walter, though I saw some of your other sources, re. breeding foxes and such. Of course, that doesn't seem good to me.

Just trying to state my point of view... I see it as a good outdoor sport to ride with a hunt, even though I don't think there is a good reason to kill foxes... which are beautiful animals even though they might be considered vermin by some. However, farmers & ranchers, even little ones like me, have felt the sting of wild animal attacks.

Was reading once an old Scottish community's vermin hunting log for one year -- it included killing several hundred eagles and hawks and ravens and rooks and other birds, as well as numerous four-legged beasts. Not a very pretty image.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Jan, 2005 04:17 pm
Quote:
Royal Prince at Beaufort hunt

Prince William was out fox hunting on Monday, six weeks before the ban on hunting with hounds comes into effect.

The Prince joined the Beaufort Hunt, near Tetbury in Gloucestershire, close to the Highgrove home of his father, Prince Charles.

He was joined by about 80 members of the Beaufort on horseback, with more than 50 cars following behind.

The Bill to ban hunting went through Parliament last November and will come into effect on 18 February.

Some pro-hunting groups have warned that civil disobedience could follow if the Bill becomes law.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40685000/jpg/_40685439_prince203.jpg
The prince (pictured at the hunt) joined 80 others on horseback

The Beaufort Hunt, which operates in Gloucestershire and Wiltshire, has been running since the 17th century.

Jo Aldridge, spokeswoman for the hunt, said: "I can confirm Prince William joined us for the meet."
Source
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cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Jan, 2005 05:40 pm
Banning hunting is never a good idea. Typically in communities here in the U.S. that ban hunting, the animals they have protected soon begin to overrun the municipality, and they they often first choose to pay sharpshooters to thin the herd. Let's think this through. Hunters will pay to hunt and thin the herd. Sharpshooters charge us to do so.

Hmmm. Definite brain tickler.
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Dartagnan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Jan, 2005 06:20 pm
I'm wondering what municipalities were recently "overrun" by wild animals. And don't count areas that have been paved over that were, until recently, the homes of those wild animals. Because that's where the cougar sitings happen around these parts...
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cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Jan, 2005 06:30 pm
Madison Wisconsin for one. A liberal stronghold in a state with a proud hunting tradition.

Palo Alto, CA, where we have had several cougar sitings in highly urban areas in the last few months. One was killed by police.

So, D'Art, what do you think of that woman stealing the governors office up in WA State? She's a proud anti-hunter. She might show up for work and find an armed militia on her new doorstep denying her entry.
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Mr Stillwater
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Jan, 2005 09:14 pm
Yeah, the LAPD pulled over the cougar speeding in its convertible. As the cougar resisted they used a controlled escalation of force to subdue it. The incident was ended when the cougar pulled out a handgun and was shot by police.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Jan, 2005 01:21 am
This thread - and my quotation - is and was about FOX hunting, cjhsa.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Jan, 2005 03:16 pm
Quote:
Pro-hunters claim ban 'invalid'

The law used to push through a ban on hunting with dogs is "invalid" because "it is not truly an Act of Parliament", the High Court has been told.

The fundamental legal flaw will mean thousands of people losing livelihoods and "a major source of recreation and enjoyment", the court heard on Tuesday.

Sir Sydney Kentridge QC made the claim for the Countryside Alliance at the start of a legal challenge to the ban.

The ban, affecting England and Wales, is due to come into force in February.

Job threat?

But the QC said its validity depended on the validity of the 1949 Parliament Act, which was used by the House of Commons to overrule objections by the House of Lords.

Sir Sydney told Lord Justice Maurice Kay and Mr Justice Collins: "We submit that it is invalid and that, despite its title, it is not an Act of Parliament."

The application for judicial review is in the names of John Jackson, Countryside Alliance chairman, and Mair Hughes, from Gilfach Goch, Mid Glamorgan, wife of the Master of the LLangeinor Hunt, who is also a farrier.

Mrs Hughes, 46, claims her job as book-keeper to the farriery is in danger from the ban, due to come into effect on 18 February, as well as her social life.

Sir Sydney told the hearing that the importance of the issue was evident from the speed with which the case had come to court and the fact the Attorney General, Lord Goldsmith QC, was appearing in person to defend the legislation.

He said if the Hunting Act, which introduces the ban, becomes law, "it will affect the livelihood of numbers of persons present, including two of the applicants".

"It will prevent many thousands more from contiuing lawfully what has been for many a major source of recreation and enjoyment," he said.

Winning prediction?

Outside the court, Mr Jackson said the Commons had no right to pass laws banning hunting and described the 1949 Parliament Act as "unlawful".

However, the government has said it is "confident" that the courts will decide to uphold the ban.

If this week's initial challenge fails, the Countryside Alliance has said it will seek an injunction to allow further appeals to take place.

But Mr Jackson said: "We're not expecting to lose."

In a press conference, he said: "This is probably the most important constitutional case the High Court has ever had to consider and it's something which should concern all of us."

Connivance claims

Anti-hunt protesters, the League Against Cruel Sports are also in court to make legal representations against any injunction.

Rural Affairs Minister Alun Michael has previously told MPs he did not believe the challenge to the ban would succeed.

The government, however, has said it will not oppose an injunction while the court process continues - a move which led to accusations it was trying to avoid protests so close to a likely May election.

Conservative frontbencher James Gray condemned as a "grubby political ploy" Downing Street's decision to tell reporters it would not oppose an injunction.

The League Against Cruel Sports chairman John Cooper said they were going to court "seeking to uphold parliamentary democracy by opposing any delay to the commencement of the ban lasting beyond February 18, the date agreed by Parliament".
Source
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cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Jan, 2005 03:43 pm
League Against Cruel Sports.... I wonder if they will try to ban killing ants with a magnafying glass next...
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Jan, 2005 04:42 pm
Well, some like hunting foxes with dogs, others find that illegal.

Thought until now, you used more firearms for hunting than animals, cjhsa. Sorry that I got that wrong.
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cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Jan, 2005 04:56 pm
I have actually never had the luxury of hunting with dogs. I always got to be the dog.

This might explain why I have never successfully harvested a pheasant (they run, and won't fly until you pin them down first).

Woof.
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cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Jan, 2005 04:57 pm
"others find that illegal".

Uh, it can't be illegal unless some anti-hunter made a law against it...I think you may want to reword that.
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georgie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Feb, 2005 09:36 am
I come from Cornwall in the UK i have been hunting all my life i am now thirty three, my first hunt was when i was five( i pestered my parents until they let me go) I don't think anyone can really understand about hunting unless they live in a hunting community,down here most of the village functions are started by the hunt and supported by them, public holidays(Feast Days) are granted in Rural areas where hunting is a way of life not just a pastime for the idle rich as it can be in richer areas.Cornwall is economically very poor so those that hunt are not hoity toity toffs. Our local hunts M.F.H. is a woman who is in her 70s she wears welly boots and her Grandfathers old Pink Jacket for hunting nothing like the hunts that happen up country!!!
Its what we choose to do on our own land in order to eliminate vermin selectively, never in a month of sundays would you catch a quick healthy fox!!!!! A gun knows no such selectivity.
I don't like being told that because someone else doesn't like it i cant do it any more..
The question is once this has been forced through what will come next?? its no good complaining in five years time when the Government are banning something that is important to you, it will be too late the die will be cast.
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cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Feb, 2005 11:28 am
Well, Charles won't be able to take his new wife hunting...
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Feb, 2005 10:33 am
The Court of Appeal in London today rejected a legal challenge from the pro-hunting Countryside Alliance arguing that the Hunting Act 2004 was invalid because the Parliament Act 1949 used to force it through the House of Lords last year was invalid. The ban on fox hunting with dogs has been the subject of much debate in the UK, with pro-hunting groups protesting the outlawing of a way of life, and animal rights groups arguing that fox hunting was cruel and should be left behind. The Court of Appeal also refused leave to send appeal to the House of Lords, the highest appellate court in the UK. The Countryside Alliance has stated its intent to file an independent appeal to the House of Lords on the issue, but the rejection by the Appeal Court means that the hunting ban will take effect Friday. Read the Countryside Alliance press release on the ruling, which includes a note indicating that "Hunts will be meeting as normal to hunt within the law across England and Wales this Saturday 19th February", after the start of the ban.


Quote:
Hunt supporters vow to fight ban

Hunt supporters say they will continue efforts to overturn the ban on hunting with dogs in England and Wales, which is due to come into force on Friday.

The Countryside Alliance had its latest legal bid thwarted when three Appeal Court judges rejected its argument that the Hunting Act was unlawful.

The campaign group said it would now take its case to the House of Lords and to the European Court of Human Rights.

The RSPCA said the court decision shows the group's arguments are "wafer thin".

'Probably unprecedented'

The Countryside Alliance had claimed that the 1949 Parliament Act, which MPs used to introduce the Hunting Act after House of Lords opposition, is invalid.

It was appealing against a High Court ruling on 28 January that the Act was clearly valid.

On Wednesday three Appeal Court judges described the challenge as "unusual, and in modern times probably unprecedented".

Rejecting the alliance's arguments, they also refused leave to appeal to the House of Lords, saying it would cast too much uncertainty over the status of the Hunting Act.

The alliance said it will make an urgent application directly to the House of Lords to hear their appeal.

'Sound and smell'

After losing the appeal pro-hunt groups said the ban was unenforceable.

Simon Hart, of the alliance, said hunting would "look, sound and smell exactly the same" on Saturday because the police would not be able to enforce the law.

The alliance has said about 50,000 people are prepared to break the ban and continue hunting "in the full knowledge they will be arrested".

But the League Against Cruel Sports says it is setting up a "crimewatch service" to monitor the ban.

Its chief executive, Douglas Batchelor, said: "If we find criminal conspiracies to break the law then we will tell the police."

And RSCPA spokeswoman Becky Hawkes said it would also assist the police in bringing prosecutions.
Source
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Feb, 2005 10:36 am
cjhsa wrote:
Well, Charles won't be able to take his new wife hunting...


Fox hunting, that's right.

(Perhaps you should read the Hunting Act 2004 one time?)
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cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Feb, 2005 11:22 am
Wow, admitting that you find Camilla attractive...

What next Walter? I'm not beating you with that stick - you're the one holding it.
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Vivien
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Feb, 2005 04:32 pm
georgie wrote:
I don't think anyone can really understand about hunting unless they live in a hunting community,down here most of the village functions are started by the hunt and supported by them, public holidays(Feast Days) are granted in Rural areas where hunting is a way of life not just a pastime for the idle rich as it can be in richer areas.Cornwall is economically very poor so those that hunt are not hoity toity toffs. Our local hunts M.F.H. is a woman who is in her 70s she wears welly boots and her Grandfathers old Pink Jacket for hunting nothing like the hunts that happen up country!!!
Its what we choose to do on our own land in order to eliminate vermin selectively, never in a month of sundays would you catch a quick healthy fox!!!!! A gun knows no such selectivity.
I don't like being told that because someone else doesn't like it i cant do it any more..
The question is once this has been forced through what will come next?? its no good complaining in five years time when the Government are banning something that is important to you, it will be too late the die will be cast.



Perhaps dogfighting. bullbaiting, dancing bears and cockfighting should also be allowed on your own land?

Hunting is barbaric, it is not pest control and two thirds of the population feel it should be banned in the same way as the above 'amusing' pastimes were.

it is not a class issue and to try to claim this is ridiculous - a lot of hunt supporters are thugs on foot who go to watch, not just those with the money to pay the hunt fees and buy their pretty pink coats and ride.

I have lived in Cornwall (amongst other places), on a farm, now live in hunting country in the shires and do know what is involved - including the fox coverts preserved to ensure that there are foxes to hunt, the cubs trapped and released for the hounds to hunt to ensure 'sport' for the barbarians chasing them, them, the 'blooding' of children at their first hunt, where the foxes tail (brush) is cut off and the blood rubbed over the childrens faces - civilised behaviour and what we want the young to grow up to think right? I think not.
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