Griping...

I agree, ehBeth.

What I was going to reply before I saw ehBeth's simple and reasonable response is that it would be as accurate (which is to say, inaccurate) to call Mrs. Pitter an amoral gold-digger as to level the accusations against Pitter that you have. (After all, she gets a free ride now -- she no longer works, even though they have no children.)

The truth seems to lie somewhere in the middle -- he gets this, she gets that, and a soupcon of real love and affection thrown in. The compromises seem to work, if barely. I'm sure she gripes to her friends as much as he gripes to us.

Perhaps


Certainly, I can see your point of view. For Mr. Pitter, I would advise practicing "unconditional love" for his wife. If he does that, the "payback" will be so sweet that he will be floating on air with happiness. The petty disputes will fade away into nonexistence.

Unconditional love is contagious -- it is returned in massive quantities. There is no measuring the reward.

debra, I get a sense that Mrs. Pitter could also benefit from the suggestion to offer unconditional love.

My personal experience is that unconditional love only happens between parents and children - and pets and their human companions. The rest of our relationships are usually not that pure/sweet/straightforward in nature.

Ohboy is that true... and kinship ties in 3rd world communities tend to not stress unconditional love, but ascribing to a set of commonly held beliefs, and one is that people who marry outside of the clan have to "make up" for that odd choice one way or another... Everybody who marries outside has to: the original family member (hence her holding out her hand to dh for the $) and the spouse brought into the clan has to buy acceptance. I was the first "haole" in dh's family, who had mostly married japanese outsiders up to then(and the hawaiians who married hawaiian, 1 had married a hawaiian-puerto rican woman, referred to as "the 'rican." and the other was hawaiian, but was branded unacceptable and crazy although she wasn't... I was unacceptable since I was a haole...) and made to pay and pay and pay. I finally divorced xh#1 b/c I couldn't stand the treatment, and only then did they lighten up and after I had a baby die, they actually invited me to be part of their family again... apparently Ihad suffered enough to qualify as a member of their clan... Being in families often has to do with other rules than love. Suffering, pennance, work, humiliation are often in play as well as love...

I'm so sorry for your loss, princess...

Thank you. I hadn't meant to bring it up, but it did make a difference in how my ex-mil treated me, suddenly I was her favorite dil and I had not been married to her #2 son for about 8 years by then... and my 3 youngest kids who are half black have become accepted as calabash cousins of my 1st dh's family b/c of that in ways that "the 'rican's" and "the thing's" other children never were...

Angela died 10 years ago this November from rhabdoid tumor of the kidney cancer when she was 1 month and 1 day short of 2 years old. It all seems ancient history, most of the time...

Oh, how sad. :-(

Yes, I grieve for you, and Angela, too.

On unconditional love, being some kind of blanket to walk on isn't really love.

unconditional love


Unconditional love has an amazing (transforming) power. If a person can bestow unconditional love upon a child or a pet--why not your partner?

In my previous post, I also wrote: "Unconditional love is contagious -- it is returned in massive quantities. There is no measuring the reward." I have no doubt if Mr. Pitter extends unconditional love to his wife, the aggravation he feels over the petty disputes will fade away. I have no doubt, if Mrs. Pitter is embraced in unconditional love, she will reciprocate and Mr. Pitter will be transformed into the happiest husband in Columbia.

There are a lot of things about my man that I could gripe about, if I wanted to gripe. Just an example: My man always talks my ear off during my favorite television program--usually during a good part that I really want to pay attention to. I could get irritated and snap at him to be quiet. But I realize that television program is NOT important. HE's important--and HE wants to talk to me. He wants to interact with me. He loves me.

There are so many things in life that can be annoyances and gripes if you ALLOW them to be annoyances and gripes. But if you practice unconditional love with your partner, you learn to put that person first and everything else seems to fall into place. And the reward? My man feels important and loved. I treat him well, put him first, and pay attention to his feelings and needs. In return, he does the same thing for me in leaps and bounds! We have peace, love, harmony, happiness, affection, and passion (lots of passion, STILL). Nothing chips away at our love.

Extending unconditional love to your partner is not the same as being a doormat. Unconditional love doesn't mean you have accept abuse of any kind. It simply means keeping your cool and allowing the small irritations in life to simply melt away into nonexistence. You just need to love your partner for the person he/she is (faults and all). . . not for the person you wish they were. None of us are blessed with perfect partners.

Re: I read it

Ah, the wonders of self-righteousness. Preaching unconditional love and letting gripes "melt away", yet not hesitating to judge a complete stranger into the starkest of moral damnation on the basis of a handful of internet posts.

<turns away in disgust>

Re: I read it


nimh:

The topic of this thread is griping. Griping, griping, griping, begruding, and griping. Mr. Pitter is griping about his wife--AGAIN. I did read his posts and discovered all his petty gripes about his wife. I also discovered that he expects quid pro quo, he doesn't consider his wife's feelings, he is inconsiderate, and he's is selfish.

Griping about your spouse, holding grudges, never validating your spouse's feelings, and focusing on one's own feelings does nothing to resolve relationship problems. Instead, this chips away at the relationship and ultimately drains the love. That's neither preaching nor moral damnation. It's the simple truth about relationships.

I will continue to call 'em how I see 'em. If someone is being selfish, I'm going to point it out. If someone is constantly griping about his wife, I'm going to point out how griping destroys relationships. I'm going to point out the benefits of unconditional love. The only one on their high horse is you. If you don't like my posts, don't respond to them.

Craven
Hi Craven! I see Nimh had to call in the reinforcements! ROFL

Short summary: A very selfish man is constantly griping about his wife and some people here are encouraging him to be wary of his Columbian wife due to cultural differences. How dare she expect poor Mr. Pitter to get her a drink. After all, his ice cream cone might have melted! How dare she hope that he would give an $8 bike to her nephew! Gosh, that worthless nephew of hers didn't help with the welding. She's gonna take Mr. Pitter for a financial ride--gotta be careful of those women from different cultures!

I point out the obvious destruction that his selfish, petty griping is doing to his marriage---encourage him to consider her feelings for a change---encourage unconditional love---and that's called "disgusting self-righteousness." ROFL

I guess the Nimh can hold Mr. Pitter's hand all the way to the Columbian divorce courts (oh darn--I don't think he got that post-nuptial agreement that would have protected his assets because he doesn't trust her thing), but I would like Mr. Pitter to WAKE UP and recognize the errors of his ways and have a happy, gripe-free marriage.

We have different agendas. Oh well.

Re: Craven


nimh doesn't need "reinforcements".

I was simply calling you on your hypocrisy and then thought better of getting involved and deleted it. I didn't know you were responding.

Since you have, I'll repost my comment:

Why should he not respond if he dislikes your post? Why not call out the self-righteousness?

You didn't like Pitter's posts and proceeded to cast your judgement on him in far harsher terms. When nimh references your self-righteousness you tell him that if he doesn't like your posts not to respond.

This right after saying you " call 'em how I see 'em".

Well, what's wrong with nimh calling it too?




Allow me a summary of my own:

A woman who exudes self-righteousness in this thread is making uncalled for judgements of an individual, making decrees that go far beyond what she is reasonably able to determine.

It's off putting to at least a number of the participants.

I will quote your response to nimh here:



So, what's wrong with calling you on self-righteousness? Why do you seek to have others not call you on it?

I for one think the comments unfounded and uncalled for in addition to off-putting. The hypocrisy of wanting to cast such judgements and ask others to avoid censure of you just exacerbates it.

Debra_law for your information I'm now "Don Pitter" not "Mr Pitter" and that's Colombia with an O. I'm delighted your relationship is such a happy one but you know very well that most come to the "Relationships & Marriage" heading with gripes or doubts rather than glowing reports of unbridled marital bliss. Certainly there is much in my relationship I rejoice and when living in peace and harmony I don't post under R & M. It's the gripes that inspire a post. Here's a little history: When I met my wife she was working earning the minimum salary and had been living alone with her mother for thirteen years. Her mother worked too but only part time and earning less. I realized that taking her out of the economic base of that household would cause major hardship for her mother as my wife was the major bread winner so I decided to replace the lost salary and have done so religiously every month since the day my wife stopped working and that's almost two years now. Let me point out a fact of life down here. NOBODY but absolutely nobody here gets free money unless they win the lottery in which case the first thing they do is leave the country to avoid being kidnapped. My arrangement is completely un heard of however I have never asked a thing from my "suegra" in return. There are two other sisters both older. One is divorced from a well paid gofer and bodyguard for the Orejuela brothers (the top Cali drug lords) and the other is married to a nice regular guy with a job that pays about three time the "salario minimo". It would never occur to or be expected of either the current or the ex husband any kind of financial contribution to the mother-in-law. That's just how it is here. And back to the bike for $100.000 or about $40 US.

The nephew (not brother in law) is the son of the bodyguerd and (calling it like I see it) he's a ner-do-well who has already given his mother and sister fits for coming home drugged up and incoherrent several times. I don't like him. I don't see why I should be obliged to give him an expensive present. There is also a teen age son of the "good guy" family who is a serious and studious kid to whom I've given, not sold a printer and scanner.

Credit where it's due and I give enormous credit to my wife for being willing to move to a home in the country with me. This will be a major sacrifice as it is cool up there (she sleeps with a blanket at 80 degrees) and she won't be living fifteen minutes away from her mother's house as she is here.

I lived alone for many years before this marriage responsible only for myself and doubtless I retain selfish habits. My wife lived alone with her mother to the age of 27 and was responsible only for washing her own clothes and cleaning her room. Her mother did all the cooking. My wife also lived her entire life with out any male presence, no father in the picture, no brothers and few boyfriends. I think these factors plus the age difference create some obviously major challanges. I'm doing my durndest to think with the pronoun "we" though my gripes make you think otherwise. I'd like my wife to do the same.

Hoot
Craven: You're a regular hoot.

Mr. Pitter: If you believe griping about your wife and disregarding her feelings is the way to go, keep it up. But you're already afraid she's going to divorce you. Did your wife sign that post-nuptial agreement? If not, oh well. . . .

Thanks for your reasoned and reasonable response, Pitter. Unnecessary, of course -- you shouldn't have to defend yourself -- but interesting to read. I hope Debra's appalling lack of perspective and grace doesn't dissuade you from continuing to post about your life. I have really appreciated the window you have provided.

Debra you're not paying attention, I said it's "Don Pitter"!

Thank you Sozobe, not discouraged at all. I'm glad you enjoy my "novela" and I very much appreciate you thoughtfull perspectives.

I have an idea, which I think is feasible. Why not just give the bike to the other nephew? That fills the bill in terms of "helping out the family" (so your wife is happy), and doesn't give it to the ne'er do well (so you're also happy). These are your nephews, they're not your sons and not your grandsons, so I think a little favoritism or at least differential treatment is okay, particularly since they aren't small children. I'd say, though, it shouldn't be TOO obvious. After all, if you give nothing to nephew #1 and 1,000 expensive things to nephew #2, no one will be happy, as nephew #1's family will legitimately cry foul and nephew #2's family might complain that you're spoiling their son.

One thing I'd also suggest is trying to connect to the ne'er do well. It strikes me - and I don't know all the facts, so bear with me here - that he was asked to do welding and then there might not have been followup. He's a teen or a very young adult, yes? Well, if that's the case, then telling him once is generally not going to cut it. There need to be reminders, or you can, seriously, just march over to his house and offer to do the work with him. This could be a bonding experience all around. I realize you don't need him to do welding right now, but I mean anything, really. After all, isn't it the kid who you have trouble with that's the one who needs the reaching out more than the "easy" child?

Debra, I have enjoyed your posts in the legal forums, and I do like your sense of humour. However, when it comes to relationships and marriage, please don't make me dig up your own posts and pass judgement.