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Let's talk about replacing GWBush in 2004.

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Jul, 2004 12:27 pm
According to this article, GWBush took the longest vacation in 32 years of any presidency since.
http://www.alternet.org/story/11327
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Jul, 2004 12:30 pm
From 2001? Kind of a stretch. Besides, it's a working vacation from the white house, not the presidency.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Jul, 2004 12:30 pm
Documented service records of Kerry and GWBush.
http://www.awolbush.com/
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Jul, 2004 12:31 pm
Actually, McG, GWBush has been on brain "vacation" since January 2001.
0 Replies
 
BillW
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Jul, 2004 01:28 pm
Make that 1972, since the "accident".
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Jul, 2004 02:35 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
... I did a search for them online but the only thing I could find was this ...


Sorry you found it difficult ... here, lemme help ya out some.

A 4-year old article from the late JFK Jr's now-defunct George Magazine debunks the AWOL myth pretty well:

Quote:
The Real Military Record of George W. Bush: Not Heroic, but Not AWOL, Either - the October 10, 2000 article
By Peter Keating and Karthik Thyagarajan

For more than a year, controversy about George W. Bush's Air National Guard record has bubbled through the press. Interest in the topic has spiked in recent days, as at least two websites have launched stories essentially calling Bush AWOL in 1972 and 1973. For example, in "Finally, the Truth about Bush's Military Record" on TomPaine.com, Marty Heldt writes, "Bush's long absence from the records comes to an end one week after he failed to comply with an order to attend 'Annual Active Duty Training' starting at the end of May 1973... Nothing indicates in the records that he ever made up the time he missed." And in Bush's Military Record Reveals Grounding and Absence for Two Full Years" on Democrats.com, Robert A. Rogers states: "Bush never actually reported in person for the last two years of his service - in direct violation of two separate written orders."

Neither is correct.

It's time to set the record straight. The following analysis, which relies on National Guard documents, extensive interviews with military officials and previously unpublished evidence of Bush's whereabouts in the summer and fall of 1972, is the first full chronology of Bush's military record. Its basic conclusions: Bush may have received favorable treatment to get into the Guard, served irregularly after the spring of 1972 and got an expedited discharge, but he did accumulate the days of service required of him for his ultimate honorable discharge.

At the Republican convention in Philadelphia, George W. Bush declared: "Our military is low on parts, pay and morale. If called on by the commander-in-chief today, two entire divisions of the Army would have to report, 'Not ready for duty, sir.'" Bush says he is the candidate who can "rebuild our military and prepare our armed forces for the future." On what direct military experience does he make such claims?

George W. Bush applied to join the Texas Air National Guard on May 27, 1968, less than two weeks before he graduated from Yale University. The country was at war in Vietnam, and at that time, just months after the bloody Tet Offensive, an estimated 100,000 Americans were on waiting lists to join Guard units across the country. Bush was sworn in on the day he applied.

Ben Barnes, former speaker of the Texas House of Representatives, stated in September 1999 that in late 1967 or early 1968, he asked a senior official in the Texas Air National Guard to help Bush get into the Guard as a pilot. Barnes said he did so at the behest of Sidney Adger, a Houston businessman and friend of former President George H. W. Bush, then a Texas congressman. Despite Barnes's admission, former President Bush has denied pulling strings for his son, and retired Colonel Walter Staudt, George W. Bush's first commander, insists: "There was no special treatment."

The younger Bush fulfilled two years of active duty and completed pilot training in June 1970. During that time and in the two years that followed, Bush flew the F-102, an interceptor jet equipped with heat-seeking missiles that could shoot down enemy planes. His commanding officers and peers regarded Bush as a competent pilot and enthusiastic Guard member. In March 1970, the Texas Air National Guard issued a press release trumpeting his performance: "Lt. Bush recently became the first Houston pilot to be trained by the 147th [Fighter Group] and to solo in the F-102... Lt. Bush said his father was just as excited and enthusiastic about his solo flight as he was." In Bush's evaluation for the period May 1, 1971 through April 30, 1972, then-Colonel Bobby Hodges, his commanding officer, stated, "I have personally observed his participation, and without exception, his performance has been noteworthy." In the spring of 1972, however, National Guard records show a sudden dropoff in Bush's military activity. Though trained as a pilot at considerable government expense, Bush stopped flying in April 1972 and never flew for the Guard again.

Around that time, Bush decided to go to work for Winton "Red" Blount, a Republican running for the U.S. Senate, in Alabama. Documents from Ellington Air Force Base in Houston state that Bush "cleared this base on 15 May." Shortly afterward, he applied for assignment to the 9921st Air Reserve Squadron in Montgomery, Ala., a unit that required minimal duty and offered no pay. Although that unit's commander was willing to welcome him, on May 31 higher-ups at the Air Reserve Personnel Center in Denver rejected Bush's request to serve at the 9921st, because it did not offer duty equivalent to his service in Texas. "[A]n obligated Reservist [in this case, Bush] can be assigned to a specific Ready Reserve position only," noted the disapproval memo, a copy of which was sent to Bush. "Therefore, he is ineligible for assignment to an Air Reserve Squadron."

Despite the military's decision, Bush moved to Alabama. Records obtained by Georegemag.com show that the Blount Senate campaign paid Bush about $900 a month from mid-May through mid-November to do advance work and organize events. Neither Bush's annual evaluation nor the Air National Guard's overall chronological listing of his service contain any evidence that he performed Guard duties during that summer.

On or around his 27th birthday, July 6, 1972, Bush did not take his required annual medical exam at his Texas unit. As a consequence, he was suspended from flying military jets. Bush spokesperson Dan Bartlett told Georgemag.com: "You take that exam because you are flying, and he was not flying. The paperwork uses the phrase 'suspended from flying,' but he had no intention of flying at that time."

Some media reports have speculated that Bush took and failed his physical, or that he was grounded as a result of substance abuse. Bush's vagueness on the subject of his past drug use has only abetted such rumors. Bush's commanding officer in Texas, however, denies the charges. "His flying status was suspended because he didn't take the exam,not because he couldn't pass," says Hodges. Asked whether Bush was ever disciplined for using alcohol or illicit drugs, Hodges replied: "No."

On September 5, Bush wrote to then-Colonel Jerry Killian at his original unit in Texas, requesting permission to serve with the 187th Tactical Reconnaisance Group, another Alabama-based unit. "This duty would be for the months of September, October, and November," wrote Bush.

This time his request was approved: 10 days later, the Alabama Guard ordered Bush to report to then-Lieutenant Colonel William Turnipseed at Dannelly Air Force Base in Montgomery on October 7th and 8th. The memo noted that "Lieutenant Bush will not be able to satisfy his flight requirements with our group," since the 187th did not fly F-102s.

The question of whether Bush ever actually served in Alabama has become an issue in the 2000 campaign-the Air Force Times recently reported that "the GOP is trying to locate people who served with Bush in late 1972 ... to see if they can confirm that Bush briefly served with the Alabama Air National Guard." Bush's records contain no evidence that he reported to Dannelly in October. And in telephone interviews with Georgemag.com, neither Turnipseed, Bush's commanding officer, nor Kenneth Lott, then chief personnel officer of the 187th, remembered Bush serving with their unit. "I don't think he showed up," Turnipseed said.

Bush maintains he did serve in Alabama. "Governor Bush specifically remembers pulling duty in Montgomery and respectfully disagrees with the Colonel," says Bartlett. "There's no question it wasn't memorable, because he wasn't flying." In July, the Decatur Daily reported that two former Blount campaign workers recall Bush serving in the Alabama Air National Guard in the fall of 1972. "I remember he actually came back to Alabama for about a week to 10 days several weeks after the campaign was over to complete his Guard duty in the state," stated Emily Martin, a former Alabama resident who said she dated Bush during the time he spent in that state.

After the 1972 election, which Blount lost, Bush moved back to Houston and subsequently began working at P.U.L.L., a community service center for disadvantaged youths. This period of time has also become a matter of controversy, because even though Bush's original unit had been placed on alert duty in October 1972, his superiors in Texas lost track of his whereabouts. On May 2, 1973, Bush's squadron leader in the 147th, Lieutenant Colonel William Harris, Jr. wrote: "Lt. Bush has not been observed at this unit" for the past year. Harris incorrectly assumed that Bush had been reporting for duty in Alabama all along. He wrote that Bush "has been performing equivalent training in a non-flying status with the 187 Tac Recon Gp, Dannelly ANG Base, Alabama." Base commander Hodges says of Bush's return to Texas: "All I remember is someone saying he came back and made up his days."

Two documents obtained by Georgemag.com indicate that Bush did make up the time he missed during the summer and autumn of 1972. One is an April 23, 1973 order for Bush to report to annual active duty training the following month; the other is an Air National Guard statement of days served by Bush that is torn and undated but contains entries that correspond to the first. Taken together, they appear to establish that Bush reported for duty on nine occasions between November 29, 1972-when he could have been in Alabama-and May 24, 1973. Bush still wasn't flying, but over this span, he did earn nine points of National Guard service from days of active duty and 32 from inactive duty. When added to the 15 so-called "gratuitous" points that every member of the Guard got per year, Bush accumulated 56 points, more than the 50 that he needed by the end of May 1973 to maintain his standing as a Guardsman.

On May 1, Bush was ordered to report for further active duty training, and documents show that he proceeded to cram in another 10 sessions over the next two months. Ultimately, he racked up 19 active duty points of service and 16 inactive duty points by July 30-which, added to his 15 gratuitous points, achieved the requisite total of 50 for the year ending in May 1974.

On October 1, 1973, First Lieutenant George W. Bush received an early honorable discharge so that he could attend Harvard Business School. He was credited with five years, four months and five days of service toward his six-year service obligation.


But wait, there's more:

Quote:
"Bush and I were lieutenants'
George Bush and I were lieutenants and pilots in the 111th Fighter Interceptor Squadron (FIS), Texas Air National Guard (ANG) from 1970 to 1971. We had the same flight and squadron commanders (Maj. William Harris and Lt. Col. Jerry Killian, both now deceased). While we were not part of the same social circle outside the base, we were in the same fraternity of fighter pilots, and proudly wore the same squadron patch.
It is quite frustrating to hear the daily cacophony from the left and Sen. John Kerry, Massachusetts Democrat, et al., about Lt. Bush escaping his military responsibilities by hiding in the Texas ANG. In the Air Guard during the Vietnam War, you were always subject to call-up, as many Air National Guardsmen are finding out today. If the 111th FIS and Lt. Bush did not go to Vietnam, blame President Johnson and Secretary of Defense Robert S. McNamara, not lowly Lt. Bush. They deliberately avoided use of the Guard and Reserves for domestic political calculations, knowing that a draftee only stirred up the concerns of one family, while a call-up got a whole community's attention ...


Quote:
Bush's Flight Instructor[/i][/u]
Fellow Veterans:

I have heard about all I can stand of the military careers of the two presidential candidates. It's like two combatants arguing about who's Purple Heart carries the most weight. I have seen e-mails "splitting hairs" and making unsubstantiated claims against both candidates. I will not engage in this type of childish name-calling. The official records indicate that both individuals completed their military service obligations and received honorable discharges.

I can, however, give you some personal observations upon which I base my opinion of Governor Bush. George W. Bush arrived at Moody AFB, Georgia, for undergraduate pilot training (UPT) in 1968 as a member of the Texas Air National Guard. I was assigned as one of his Instructor Pilots. The atmosphere at this training base was somber and dead serious, as the student pilots were all either going to Vietnam or subject to being called up for combat duty as members of a Guard or Reserve unit.

George W. Bush put himself totally into the task of becoming the best aviator in the class. His unit flew Century Series jet fighters, which required the best pilots. There was no room for error, as these airplanes were unforgiving, and the price for a mistake was often the pilot's life. George W. Bush appeared to have that "fighter pilot attitude" from our first meeting. This attitude can best be described as: "I can handle the situation--regardless of the odds." He was extremely competitive and eager to learn every thing about his machine and the enemy's tactics. He was quick to pick up the flying skills necessary to maneuver an aircraft into a position to shoot down an enemy aircraft.

Being a fighter pilot is truly like being a modern day gladiator. When two jet fighters meet in combat, there is usually only one survivor. It is the ultimate test of your skills, and you must hone these skills until you have complete confidence that you will be victorious--that in the air you are invincible. Cocky? You bet!!! That was the attitude that saved England during the Battle of Britain, when a small cadre of British fighter pilots turned back the German onslaught. "Never have so many owed so much to so few," were Winston Churchill's words describing the RAF victory. This standard is part of the heritage of every fighter pilot.

The traits which, I believe, made George W. Bush a good fighter pilot and would also make him a good president are:

Leadership
a "take charge" attitude.
Stamina when the going gets tough, the tough get going.
Sincerity a love of country and care for your fellow man.

Integrity knowledge of and willingness to act upon honest principles.

My personal bottom line used to be, "Would you follow this person into combat?" Well, I'm a bit old now for combat, but I respect George W. Bush's leadership abilities, and I would follow him anywhere!

Respectfully submitted,

Colonel Thomas G. Lockhart, USAF (Ret)

SEA: F-105 -- 1965-66



Quote:
National Guard Magazine[/i][/u] ... Bush's drill performance also stirred controversy during the campaign. Some reports charged that he was absent for a year. However, probably the most comprehensive media review of Bush's military records concluded that while he, "served irregularly after the spring of 1972 and got an expedited discharge, he did accumulate the days of service required for him for his ultimate honorable discharge."


Quote:
Media failed to find facts behind Bush's service record

February 11, 2004

BY THOMAS LIPSCOMB

President Bush has had a rough 10 days, beginning with the Tim Russert "Meet the Press" interview on Feb. 1 of Democratic National Committee Chairman Terry McAuliffe, who charged Bush was "AWOL" and "never served in the military." Only a week later, Bush asked to appear on Russert's show in a clear attempt to stem the damage from these charges. For over a week they were endlessly repeated and never analyzed by the news media.

But the only basis for these charges was summarized by London's Sunday Telegraph on Feb. 8: "If the Vietnam veteran John Kerry becomes the next president, there will be one man to thank above all others: retired Brig. Gen. William Turnipseed."

It all started with a report by the Boston Globe during the 2000 presidential election questioning Bush's National Guard service. Walter Robinson cited retired Turnipseed, of the Alabama Air National Guard, as his source.

But in an interview , Turnipseed states that Robinson's reporting of their conversation was either distorted or based upon his misunderstanding of how the military functioned at the time of Bush's service. For Bush to be "AWOL" or "away without leave," he would have had to have been assigned to a unit and under its command.

Turnipseed states Bush was never ordered to report to the Alabama Air National Guard. He points out that Bush never transferred from the Texas Air National Guard to the Alabama Air National Guard. He remained in the Texas Guard during his stay in Alabama. This was confirmed by the Texas Guard. And Turnipseed added that Bush was never under his command or any other officer in the Alabama Guard ...



Teeth Not Awol, either:

Dental Exam Record

But then, none of the foregoing is likely to satisfy some folks ... mostly those folks who aren't satisfied by anything other than what might fit their own prejudices and preconceptions ... folks who are unsatisfied Saddam's Iraq retained not just prohibited weapons but the capacity to rapidly produce more, folks who persist in the absurd belief Iraq had no ties to international terrorism, folks incapable of accepting they continually prove themselves unable to outwit a politician they foolishly wish to believe is an inept bumbler, folks who are going to be absolutely livid, stunned, and dismayed to find their political sandcastles totally swept away by this November's tides. Some folks are just never satisfied.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Jul, 2004 02:42 pm
timber, Your ability to equate Bush's military record with Iraq's WMDs is stretching logic pretty far, but we can expect that kind of bombast from you folks.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Jul, 2004 02:45 pm
timber, You're beginning to sound like Bush:
BUSH: "Look, Saddam Hussein had used weapons of mass destruction against his own people, against the neighborhood. He was a brutal dictator who posed a threat, such a threat that the United Nations voted unanimously to say, Mr. Saddam Hussein ...

COLEMAN: Indeed, Mr. President, but you didn't find the weapons of mass destruction.

BUSH: Let me finish. Let me finish. May I finish?

***

BUSH: Of course, I'm not going to put people in harm's way, our young, if I didn't think the world would be better. And ...

COLEMAN: Why is it that others ...

BUSH: Let me finish.

***

BUSH: Like Iraq, the Palestinian and the Israeli issue is going to require good security measures. And ...

COLEMAN: And a bit more even-handedness from America?

BUSH: ... and we're working on security measures.

***
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Jul, 2004 02:50 pm
You can expect a lot, c.i. ... but acceptance by The Electorate of The Opposition's negativism, denial, and pessimism is not among the things one should expect. Please, go right ahead keeping your hopes up ... it will make November all the sweeter for your disappointment.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Jul, 2004 02:54 pm
Actually, my link was kind of a joke timber.

But thanks for the info. It's nice to see well-detailed arguments from the other side of the fence.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Jul, 2004 02:55 pm
Bush and company just uses FEAR as their primary message. Since they've been responsible for an increase in TERRORISM, they really have a legitimate message.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Jul, 2004 02:56 pm
Oh, I know it was humor, Cycloptichorn. I was just feelin' fiesty.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Jul, 2004 10:45 am
From an interview with Cuomo, here answering a question regarding the Bush notion of faith as compared to Lincoln...
Quote:

But does that mean Lincoln wasn't religious? Then as now, I have a hard time imagining America electing a president who claims to have no belief in God.

A congressman once asked him, "Mr. President, you talk about the Bible a great deal. Do you belong to any particular religion?" Lincoln said "No." The congressman countered, "Mr. President, you purchased a pew at the Baptist church." And Lincoln said, "Yes, but only my wife uses it." And the congressman said, "Why, then, are you not a member of any specific religion?" And Lincoln said, "Because they all appear to have prohibitions, admonitions and proffered truths which cannot be established as a matter of intellect or natural law, which is reason -- simple reason -- unattended by revelation of faith. Most of them insist that you believe in certain things not because you can prove absolutely that they are so, but because you want to believe in them." Then he said, "Give me a church or a religion that has one principle: Love one another as you love yourself, and I will belong to that church."


http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2004/07/03/cuomo/
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Jul, 2004 10:51 am
Can somebody explain to me why women support GWBush?
**************************



Expendable Women
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Jul, 2004 05:40 pm
Thomas Jefferson wrote:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, -- That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.


And if Bush is "re"-elected in November, it may come to that.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Jul, 2004 07:25 pm
I figure The Opposition is gonna get real happy here shortly ... Gephardt (or just mebbe, but I don't think real likely, Edwards or a darkhorse) for Veep ... lotsa press, resultant poll bounce. The the dog-and-pony show at the end of the month ... more press, more poll bounce. Then the game begins to get real interestin'. A month of unrestricted Republican spending (imagine the adbuy opportunity afforded by The Olympics), continued economic good news, Iraq continues to settle down, more new information of embarrassing nature for The Opposition comes to light, more international cooperation with The Current Administration, North Korea, Iran, and Syria bring more focus on National Security, oil prices continue to decline ... the reason The Opposition thinks the paddlin' is gettin' easier is 'cause they're gettin closer an' closer to the falls. That's the way I figure it, anyway.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Jul, 2004 06:09 am
Well, the newswires and the media are breathlessly flogging the "Scoop" that the Veepstakes has been won by Edwards. No statement yet either from Kerry or Edwards, but it looks like its gonna be the John-John show.
0 Replies
 
Brand X
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Jul, 2004 06:37 am
It's all but official according to Kerry campaign person on NPR this morning.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Jul, 2004 07:13 am
Its official ... "Kerry-Edwards - For a Stronger America"
That's sure gonna draw some Republican fire. Watch for a McCain-centric RNC/Bush-Cheney '04 commercial attacking the premise in the very near future.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Jul, 2004 07:20 am
Why can't we force McCain to run for president?
0 Replies
 
 

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