Why do so many Americans want socialism (and support Bernie Sanders' Idealism)?

Finn's query is a strange one. Did he also hear about the Civil War? Just wondering.

You seem to accept everything you hear from the news as absolute truth. Most of us know that NYtimes and many news agencies are liberal. The same event can be described many different ways and the truth becomes twisted. You can title it "Voter suppression" that sets a tone to argue that whatever republicans are doing is to make voting more difficult. Or you can set the tone to say that double voting (or votes by illegal immigrants) are bad for the country. The way your present the story makes a huge difference on how it's perceived. Controlling women's body, again, is another way feminists take advantage of people's framing biases. Some women go out and have unprotected sex, gets pregnant and now I am suppose to pay for her contraceptives and ultimately, abortion with tax dollars? How does defund these provisions in Obamacare violate women's body? In my view, these provisions encourages irresponsible sexual behavior, potential prostitution, and then abortion. I am not a religious fanatic and am neither against nor for abortion. However, I am all for responsible behavior and see no reason why tax payers must bare the burden of another individual's irresponsible behavior.

Lastly, stock market return does not indicate the truth health of a nation. I'm guessing you are a liberal individual and I am very surprised to see you are pro-market. Don't most liberals say that Wall Street banks are the ultimate benefactor of a great market run? Again, if you export all your labor and material to Asia, corporate profits are bound to rise. If you hire all illegal immigrants, labor costs are indeed cheaper and again boost corporate profits. Higher profits = higher stock market returns. But is THIS really good for America? Your call.

Quote Angelgz:

And why are the Republicans making it more difficult to vote? I was brought up that we want to encourage people to vote. Because Republicans know that the people who are poor and on the fringes of society are less likely to have their papers in order, or poor people are less likely to own a car or have had one break down and so they never renewed their drivers license. So they demand strict voter ID laws, and coming out with lists they give to the local poll office that certain people are suspected of not being eligible, and to not take any ID from those people. That's voter suppression. Almost no illegal immigrants are stupid enough to want to go to vote and thereby expose their illegal status-that's just an excuse to come out with stricter ID laws that will prevent perfectly legitimate, but poor, voters from voting.

And you know that how...? You can get an ID in many states and would not need your driver's license. Do you also know that you can apply for most of the IDs in America with your Permanent Resident card? The ONLY difference between a Permanent Resident vs a Citizen is that the latter can vote. So merely having a driver's license is not sufficient in reality because permanent residents can obtain one. The ONLY thing permanent residents cannot have is an American passport. Do you know that they now have a "passport card" option for much cheaper, I believe only $30? That is suffice to prove your eligibility. Buy one less box of booz then you have it.


And you know this how...? I have a friend from Texas who said illegals / non-citizens do vote because "many places don't check voter ID whatsoever".

So what do you propose that could prevent illegals / permanent residents from voting illegally while also letting poor people to not having to go through all that hoops to vote?

There's another fundamental flaw in your argument that you could also say companies are evil to check for IDs because poor people can't afford it so they are denied to have a job. The slippery slope goes on. Some times these people should look at themselves introspectively and ask how they got to be so helpless in the first place instead of blaming it all on the society.

How many more republican plants are going to join this site?

And your friend from Texas knows that illegal immigrants vote how........?
Anyone here illegally is loathe to leave any kind of ID or followup because they know it can be traced back to them. They are probably have some phony ID somewhere but don't like to flash it because they know it isn't legit and they don't want to push it. In case you haven't noticed, it is a trend among people in poorer neighborhoods to NOT answer the door and give out as little info as possible.

Fact is, studies have shown that very very few illegal immigrants actually do try to vote. And the legit people who get turned down because of ID who are completely eligible to vote is hugely greater, by many times.

The voter ID laws are simply a ploy to hold down the vote from a group that is likely to vote Democratic, the poor. Nothing more to it than that.

Quote Angelgz2:

Yes, tax dollars should pay for free contraceptives, since an unwanted baby is likely to end up costing society much more money in the long run since there is a far greater chance that the baby will end up poor, possibly in trouble with the law, and has a greater chance of ending up in jail.

For that reason, giving out the use of contraceptives makes such great sense financially, that I doubt the actual sanity of people who object to it.

Either I was unclear or my point went over your head. I'll leave it to you to guess which I believe.

Arguing that pro-lifers want to control women's bodies is co-mingling intent and the practical methodology involved in realizing that intent, and then picking a an alternative, false intent to suit one's views.

The baseline of pro-lifers is that they wish to save the lives of the unborn. The means to do so will restrict the choices of women who wish to abort their unborn children.

Now we can reasonably argue over which imperative is most crucial. but it's deceptive to cast the pro-life movement's intent as "wanting to control women's bodies," just like it would have been deceptive to cast the motivation of American patriots during our revolution as "a desire to kill Englishmen"

And just as it would be deceptive to cast the intent of the Pro-Choice movement as "wanting to kill unborn children"

Pro-choice folks wish to preserve the right of a woman to have an abortion. It logically follows from this that, in practice, they want to preserve the right to kill unborn children, but I doubt you would be happy if I categorized you position this way.

Let me hasten to add that I know that there are people who do accuse Pro-Choicers of wanting to murder babies. I refute that position as well, and in any case, two wrongs don't make a right.

The argument that "Republicans want to control women's bodies" is a vile distortion of reality and people who use it lack intellectual honesty.

The same can be said about people who argue "Democrats want to kill babies," or who might have said "Americans want to murder Englishmen."

Civil War?

What are you talking about CI?

I agree with you. The TRUE INTENT of these voter suppression laws is to prevent or discourage democrat leaning voters from voters. I call these laws ANTI-DEMOCRACY laws. That is a much better description.

You still haven't address how to differentiate between permanent residents, who doesn't have the right to vote vs citizens, who has the right to vote. So why not voter ID laws again?

You really can't see the forest for the trees. Any regulation beyond what is necessary only suppress voting.

OMG, am I hearing this right? So by your logic, it's okay for the Chinese people to kill their little girls because girls aren't valued as much as boys in China and that they have far greater chance to become prostitutes after they grow up and end up in jail? You are essentially saying the same thing! What people should do is to use tax dollars to provide better education to underprivileged teens so that they understand the consequences of unprotected sex as contraceptives do not prevent STDs, not to mention MANY adverse side effects of contraceptives. In my view it's the progressive liberals who appears to be controlling women's body by encouraging abortion...etc.

When people are young and stupid they believe every progressive idea because they just sound so good on paper (or spoken), like my cousin who's had 3 abortions and now Doc finally told her that she is very unlikely to have a baby again. At the age of 31 she now wants to marry and have kids but she can't. She cries night after night but who's to blame? Her own stupidity or a society that encourages her to be a parent when she's ready but yet never told her the consequences of an abortion!?

So what's your objection to free contraception, because THAT is what we were talking about. An unwanted baby is very likely to run into problems, much more than a wanted baby. So, as a taxpayer, it is very much in my interest to provide free contraception to mothers who don't feel they are in a position to give birth and care for their baby right now.

Fact is, you said in your previous post that you object to being accused of trying to control women's bodies, but your only objection to contraception is that women are not doing with their bodies what you want them to, and you are demanding that they go through with the birth because YOU feel they've been immoral so now they have to pay the piper. And the cost of contraception is very very low. And the societal cost of being forced to have an unwanted baby is comparatively high. And you weren't even talking about abortion, you were objecting to contraception.

Quote Angelgz2:

There are traditional forms of identification besides the drivers license and state ID, which is frequently difficult to get. Those are the types that have always been used, but by requiring stiffer ID requirements, the Republicans know that they can eliminate many poor people who are likely to vote Democratic.

And you know this, you are just playing coy.

ID requirements will eliminate voting by people who are not authorized to vote by virtue of their status here. It may also eliminate others who don't bother to get IDs. Who they are and why they don't bother to do so is something that neither you nor I really know. The solution to their problem is for them to get the requisite IDs.

You are merely peddling bombastic bullshit.