Why do so many Americans want socialism (and support Bernie Sanders' Idealism)?

@hibbitus,

This is what I found about socialism in Spain.
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2016/09/spain-socialists-160928075745413.html

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@cicerone imposter,

And this is what I found about socialism in Spain. It reinforces ny contention that socialism is in its developmental and experimental stage.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/20/marinaleda-spanish-communist-village-utopia

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@Senter,

Your quoted article doesn't say anything about socialism but refers to communism - even inthe headline (if you didn't read it).

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@Angelgz2,

Angelgz2 wrote:

I see many people, upper middle class included, support the idealism proposed by Bernie Sanders.

Sure there are "many" people who feel this way. But there are many many people in this country so it's not unusual to see large numbers of people supporting or denouncing various causes. What do you think the actual percentage of wannabe socialists is? I'd be surprised if it were more than ten or fifteen per cent.

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@Walter Hinteler,

Please explain the difference between socialism and communism.

Not democratic socialism but socialism

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@Finn dAbuzz,

I don't believe that you are serious.
I don't agree with you often, but I do think that you are educated.

If I'm wrong here (what I don't believe), just look it up, in a book or the internet.

Btw: we have "democratic Socialism" since more than 140 years here.

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@Walter Hinteler,

I would like to know what you think the difference is.

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@Finn dAbuzz,

Freedom, democracy, equality, personal ownership, variety of unions ... all that (and more) is part of Socialism and not to be found in Communism. (Some reasons, why we have a Socialist and the Communist International since 100 years.)

In my opinion, Socialism is not the pre-stage of Communism (like Marx said) but a reasionable, working form of "Anticapitalism".

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@Walter Hinteler,

Honest Americans actually admit the part Socialists played in their revolution.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/cd/79/a2/cd79a2f6e2c07cf47fb453714efc2803.jpg

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@Finn dAbuzz,

Quote:

Please explain the difference between socialism and communism.

Communism would be society without classes and without state "machinery". There would be offices of the state only to perform clerical duties. This is the Marxian description. And Marx said it would occur as a result of the "withering of the state". And since it would appear by default as classes and the state "withers", communism cannot be imposed since imposition implies a powerful state with a powerful military to impose its will. So communist society has never occurred other than as primitive, early, usually tribal societies.

Socialism is an economic system in which the relationship between the worker and the owners and the managers is identity. They are one and the same. The workers own and run the business where they work. They decide what to produce, where to produce, how to produce, and what to do with the profits. Socialist government suppresses the capitalist class and prevents them from owning private businesses for private profit. Hence socialism is called "the dictatorship of the proletariat" (over the capitalists).

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@Senter,

Senter wrote:

Socialism is an economic system in which the relationship between the worker and the owners and the managers is identity. They are one and the same. The workers own and run the business where they work. They decide what to produce, where to produce, how to produce, and what to do with the profits. Socialist government suppresses the capitalist class and prevents them from owning private businesses for private profit. Hence socialism is called "the dictatorship of the proletariat" (over the capitalists).

Where I live, Socialism is a political position - we've got our political Socialist party since more than 150 years now.
We've never had such what you describe above, but had had a couple of Socialist-governments all over Europe during those years.

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@Walter Hinteler,

Quote:

Where I live, Socialism is a political position

Yes. You are describing a socialist-leaning politics working to install a socialist economy. Some such governments succeed and some (like USSR and China) fail. But since the "enemy" is an economic system, -capitalism, -then socialism has to ultimately be an economy. Marx said that the economic system is the foundation from which all else, including politics and culture, spring. By having a socialist government, countries put the cart before the horse. And whatever economy exists or is established is what determines the ultimate form of government.

I don't know what country you're from, but it sounds likely that it is based on democratic socialism or social democracy. And many of those countries are having problems with right wing politics trying to deceive the people and increase capitalism. That wouldn't be allowed under true socialism.

Quote:

we've got our political Socialist party since more than 150 years now. We've never had such what you describe above

Yes, your country has not succeeded in completely transforming the economy and you still struggle against capitalist private profit, don't you. As you say, it has been 150 years and you still don't have a socialist economy.

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@Walter Hinteler,

Quote:

Freedom, democracy, equality, personal ownership, variety of unions ... all that (and more) is part of Socialism and not to be found in Communism.

Seriously?? Communist society would be the ultimate freedom, democracy, and equality! I think you are confusing political ideology with economic form. Communist PARTIES working to establish SOCIALIST ECONOMIES have existed, and mostly failed. But COMMUNISM has never existed anywhere other than in primitive tribal/communal cultures.

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@Senter,

Senter wrote:

I don't know what country you're from, but it sounds likely that it is based on democratic socialism or social democracy. And many of those countries are having problems with right wing politics trying to deceive the people and increase capitalism. That wouldn't be allowed under true socialism.

I'm from Germany. And we've got the oldest Socialist political party here - the foundation of the SPD can be tracked to the 1860's.
Ferdinand Lassalle's Gotha Program was famously attacked by Karl Marx (see: Critique of the Gotha Program

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@Senter,

Senter wrote:

As you say, it has been 150 years and you still don't have a socialist economy.

Well, it's actually called Soziale Marktwirtschaft ("social market econom"), which has strong elements ordoliberalism, social democratic ideas, and Catholic social ethics.

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@Walter Hinteler,

But Germany is not a socialist country. It has socialist programs and other socialist structures and intentions but it still has capitalist enterprises and allows private profit. Consequently the capitalist class is still active and hopeful. They run right wing politicians and campaigns and so the struggle continues. Socialism is not established until the economy consists of worker-owned, worker-controlled businesses, and it has to begin some time, and it begins with WSDEs and favorable legislation. Do you agree?

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@Senter,

I didnt say that Germany is a socialist country - but we had had socialist federal (and state) governments, have now (still) a coalition federal government (conservatives in the majority) ...

Obliviously, we here understand by socialism something different than you do.
Well, actually not only we but others in more than 150 countries (168 socialist parties are members of the Socialist International [the International Meeting of Communist and Workers' Parties has 121 communist parties from 84 countries}).

To answer your question: no, I don't agree at all.

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@Senter,

Socialism is where the community owns all the factories and land, and not privately owned. Capitalism is where factories and land are privately owned.

Quote:

so·cial·ism
[ soh-sh uh-liz- uhm]

NOUN
1.
a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.
2.
procedure or practice in accordance with this theory.
3.
(in Marxist theory) the stage following capitalism in the transition of a society to communism, characterized by the imperfect implementation of collectivist principles.

Capitalism and socialism explained. https://www.thebalance.com/the-characteristics-of-capitalism-and-socialism-393509

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@Finn dAbuzz,

Communism is a raical and extreme form of socialism that is used for tyranny, rather than for economic benefit.

Socialism is has to do how the economy operates.

My grandfather was a Russian democratic socialist. He wanted democratic government and a socialist economy.

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@kk4mds,

Also, total socialism has been proven to be a failure, because there's no need for competition and innovation/creativity. Why socialism always fails. http://www.aei.org/publication/why-socialism-always-fails/

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Why do so many Americans want socialism (and support Bernie Sanders' Idealism)?

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