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Is Zell Miller Suffering from a Mental Disorder?

 
 
blueveinedthrobber
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Sep, 2004 08:07 am
Larry434 wrote:
"nowhere have I said or implied that I hated my fellow citizens"

Thanks fro the clarification bear.

Glad to hear that for the reason I previously stated.


and then he attempts the high road......glossing over the fact that it was he who spun the accusation in the first place......you just can't get away with that kind of thing with everyone Larry......it simply doesn't work.
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blueveinedthrobber
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Sep, 2004 08:08 am
sozobe wrote:
The "I know who you were on Abuzz" stuff is really dumb, FYI.

Just my opinion.


Sorry soz, even the most brilliant of us (you're the exception I guess :wink: ) falls prey to dumb remarks occasionally.... Laughing
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Larry434
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Sep, 2004 08:09 am
If being civil is "taking the high road" then so be it.

As I said, glad to hear you do NOT hate half your fellow citizens.
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blueveinedthrobber
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Sep, 2004 08:14 am
I do not intend to get into a sniping contest with you Larry but afer making provocative remarks that I hated half my fellow citizens, please do not try to spin it into you being civil......you're not fooling me or anyone else your intent was obvious......and now I will drop the subject.......I don't wish to violate any TOS rules.....
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Larry434
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Sep, 2004 08:32 am
Bi-Polar Bear wrote:
I do not intend to get into a sniping contest with you Larry but afer making provocative remarks that I hated half my fellow citizens, please do not try to spin it into you being civil......you're not fooling me or anyone else your intent was obvious......and now I will drop the subject.......I don't wish to violate any TOS rules.....


Me either. Peace.
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Harper
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Sep, 2004 01:10 pm
Once in awhile, even the intellectually challenegd can recognize the handwriting on the wall.
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Sep, 2004 01:11 pm
I pity half my fellow citizens. Does that count?

Cycloptichorn
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Sep, 2004 01:16 pm
Harper wrote:
Once in awhile, even the intellectually challenegd can recognize the handwriting on the wall.


Shocked You're voting Republican?!
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Sofia
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Sep, 2004 02:15 pm
LOL!

Watch out. I predict a "lying liar who lies kind of liar" accusation! They're everywhere!
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georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Sep, 2004 03:18 pm
Harper wrote:
Once in awhile, even the intellectually challenegd can recognize the handwriting on the wall.


So you finally understand.
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PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Sep, 2004 03:52 pm
Back on topic:

http://www.dailykos.com/images/user/3/vampire_zell.jpg
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Brand X
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Sep, 2004 03:54 pm
Laughing
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Baldimo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Sep, 2004 04:48 pm
Harper wrote:
andrewsullivan.com


Zell Miller's address will, I think, go down as a critical moment in this campaign, and maybe in the history of the Republican party. I kept thinking of the contrast with the Democrats' keynote speaker, Barack Obama, a post-racial, smiling, expansive young American, speaking about national unity and uplift. Then you see Zell Miller, his face rigid with anger, his eyes blazing with years of frustration as his Dixiecrat vision became slowly eclipsed among the Democrats. Remember who this man is: once a proud supporter of racial segregation, a man who lambasted LBJ for selling his soul to the negroes. His speech tonight was in this vein, a classic Dixiecrat speech, jammed with bald lies, straw men, and hateful rhetoric. As an immigrant to this country and as someone who has been to many Southern states and enjoyed astonishing hospitality and warmth and sophistication, I long dismissed some of the Northern stereotypes about the South. But Miller did his best to revive them. The man's speech was not merely crude; it added whole universes to the word crude.

THE "OCCUPATION" CANARD: Miller first framed his support for Bush as a defense of his own family. The notion that individuals deserve respect regardless of their family is not Miller's core value. And the implication was that if the Democrats win in November, his own family would not be physically safe. How's that for subtlety? Miller's subsequent assertion was that any dissent from aspects of the war on terror is equivalent to treason. He accused all war critics of essentially attacking the very troops of the United States. He conflated the ranting of Michael Moore with the leaders of the Democrats. He said the following:

Motivated more by partisan politics than by national security, today's Democratic leaders see America as an occupier, not a liberator. And nothing makes this Marine madder than someone calling American troops occupiers rather than liberators.

That macho invocation of the Marines was a classic: the kind of militarist swagger that this convention endorses and uses as a bludgeon against its opponents. But the term "occupation," of course, need not mean the opposite of liberation. I have used the term myself and I deeply believe that coalition troops have indeed liberated Afghanistan and Iraq. By claiming that the Democrats were the enemies of the troops, traitors, quislings and wimps, Miller did exactly what he had the audacity to claim the Democrats were doing: making national security a partisan matter. I'm not easy to offend, but this speech was gob-smackingly vile.

OPPONENTS OR ENEMIES?: Here's another slur:

No one should dare to even think about being the Commander in Chief of this country if he doesn't believe with all his heart that our soldiers are liberators abroad and defenders of freedom at home. But don't waste your breath telling that to the leaders of my party today. In their warped way of thinking America is the problem, not the solution. They don't believe there is any real danger in the world except that which America brings upon itself through our clumsy and misguided foreign policy.

Yes, that describes some on the left, but it is a calumny against Democrats who voted for war in Afghanistan and Iraq and whose sincerity, as John McCain urged, should not be in question. I have never heard Kerry say that 9/11 was America's fault; if I had, it would be inconceivable to consider supporting him. And so this was, in truth, another lie, another cheap, faux-patriotic smear. Miller has absolutely every right to lambaste John Kerry's record on defense in the Senate. It's ripe for criticism, and, for my part, I disagree with almost all of it (and as a pro-Reagan, pro-Contra, pro-SDI, pro-Gulf War conservative, I find Kerry's record deeply troubling). But that doesn't mean he's a traitor or hates America's troops or believes that the U.S. is responsible for global terror. And the attempt to say so is a despicable attempt to smear someone's very patriotism.

THE FOREIGN AGENT: Another lie: "Senator Kerry has made it clear that he would use military force only if approved by the United Nations. Kerry would let Paris decide when America needs defending. I want Bush to decide." Miller might have found some shred of ancient rhetoric that will give him cover on this, but in Kerry's very acceptance speech, he declared the opposite conviction - that he would never seek permission to defend this country. Another lie: "John Kerry wants to re-fight yesterday's war." Kerry didn't want to do that. Yes, he used his military service in the campaign - but it was his opponents who decided to dredge up the divisions of the Vietnam war in order to describe Kerry as a Commie-loving traitor who faked his own medals. What's remarkable about the Republicans is their utter indifference to fairness in their own attacks. Smearing opponents as traitors to their country, as unfit to be commander-in-chief, as agents of foreign powers (France) is now fair game. Appealing to the crudest form of patriotism and the easiest smears is wrong when it is performed by the lying Michael Moore and it is wrong when it is spat out by Zell Miller. Last night was therefore a revealing night for me. I watched a Democrat at a GOP Convention convince me that I could never be a Republican. If they wheel out lying, angry old men like this as their keynote, I'll take Obama. Any day.


How does this show Miller to be a liar? Kerry has said many times that he would seek to build a coalition for such actions. Does this mean that he would wait tell he has one and wouldn't act without it? It seems to me that he wants permission from Germany and France before he acts so as to not make them mad. Which of major countries doesn't agree with the US besides France and Germany? Remember I said major countries not some little country in the middle of nowhere.

He also covered his voting record in the senate and it does show that he doesn't support a modern military. He did vote against weapons systems that are used in the current war on terror. If he is indeed strong on military weapons systems then why vote against them? Us soldiers need the best equipment we can get our hands on and when people vote against it, it isn't good for us. How do you defend this in a wannabe commander in chief?

Your one to ask for people to defend statements, when you have NEVER defended a statement you have made.
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Sep, 2004 04:51 pm
Thanks for reposting this, Baldimo. It's really a great article, and gives me about as much hope as anything. The Republican party seems to be abandoning centrists and moderates. Phyllis Schlafly (sp?) says that after years and years of fighting about the place of abortion on the Republican platform, this time there was no fighting -- everyone was thoroughly pro-life. They came down against homosexual marriage. It's looking like they're not even pretending that they're moderate or centrist, and while that makes some people very happy, it's making the likes of Andrew Sullivan pretty unhappy. That's encouraging.
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PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Sep, 2004 04:55 pm
Quote:
"Twenty years of votes can tell you much more about a man than twenty weeks of campaign rhetoric. Campaign talk tells people who you want them to think you are. How you vote tells people who you really are deep inside."


-- Zell Miller, last night / link

Quote:
"John Kerry has fought against government waste and worked hard to bring some accountability to Washington…He fought for balanced budgets before it was considered politically correct for Democrats to do so. John has worked to strengthen our military, reform public education, boost the economy and protect the environment."


-- Zell Miller, praising Kerry's voting record in a 2001 speech / link

Which time do you think Zellout was telling the truth, Baldo?

Before or after he took the money?
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Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Sep, 2004 05:26 pm
Answer: to greedily promote his own books, Miller would say anything.
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Baldimo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Sep, 2004 05:51 pm
PDiddie wrote:
Quote:
"Twenty years of votes can tell you much more about a man than twenty weeks of campaign rhetoric. Campaign talk tells people who you want them to think you are. How you vote tells people who you really are deep inside."


-- Zell Miller, last night / link

Quote:
"John Kerry has fought against government waste and worked hard to bring some accountability to Washington…He fought for balanced budgets before it was considered politically correct for Democrats to do so. John has worked to strengthen our military, reform public education, boost the economy and protect the environment."


-- Zell Miller, praising Kerry's voting record in a 2001 speech / link

Which time do you think Zellout was telling the truth, Baldo?

Before or after he took the money?


Did he receive any money to speak at the convention? From what I heard the man say himself, he started to see the light when Clinton came into office and had a change of heart. Under the pretences he supported him as long as he wasn't running for the most important office in the nation. He could see the effects of having Kerry in office.

Do you see a difference in what Miller had done as opposed to what Jumping Jim Jeffords did?
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Sep, 2004 05:54 pm
soz

I've been recommending a book high and low, with no takers it seems...Gang of Five by Nina Easton (I think it is Putnam, but not sure). Removal of moderates from control points in the Republican party has been an explicit project of Norquist and, to some extent, Reed. And it has been very successful. This is a very good book.
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PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Sep, 2004 05:57 pm
Quote:
Do you see a difference in what Miller had done as opposed to what Jumping Jim Jeffords did?


Did Zell Miller change parties?

Did Jim Jeffords write a book?

Did Jim Jeffords speak at the Democratic convention?

Shall I continue pointing out the differences?
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Baldimo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Sep, 2004 06:09 pm
PDiddie wrote:
Quote:
Do you see a difference in what Miller had done as opposed to what Jumping Jim Jeffords did?


Did Zell Miller change parties?

Did Jim Jeffords write a book?

Did Jim Jeffords speak at the Democratic convention?

Shall I continue pointing out the differences?


Miller is still a democrap.

Not yet I'm sure.

No he didn't because the reason he changed parties was for votes, and then the votes didn't come. He was betrayed!

You can try to point out the differences if you like.
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