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Is Zell Miller Suffering from a Mental Disorder?

 
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Sep, 2004 08:36 am
Temporary static. The destructive ones won't be able to last more than a short while before the door opens beneath them.
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blueveinedthrobber
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Sep, 2004 10:09 am
squinney just volunteered us to sit outside some public places and try to get people walking in to register as democrats......I may hate some of my fellow Americans by the time this little foray into the streets is over... Laughing
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Sep, 2004 10:23 am
very brave indeed...and I love ya both
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blueveinedthrobber
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Sep, 2004 10:30 am
thanks blatham we love ya back......

I must say however that despite my good intentions I probably won't be a very effective tool for recruitment with my long hair, jewelry and tattoos...especially if placed beside the republican recruitment fellas, those fresh faced fraternity boys with their neat haircuts, button down collars, dockers and that hundred yard stare that one usually associates with a person who just got Jesus in a big way...... but, we do what we can Laughing
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Sep, 2004 11:39 am
Yes, diversity does scare the living bejesus out of some folks.
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DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Sep, 2004 01:28 pm
FreeDuck wrote:
During the 90s, when conservatives were freaking out at not having control of the government and doing their damndest to bring down a president using taxpayer money, did anyone accuse them of hating America?


oh heck no, duck. thatwas clinton. therefore it was patriotic to hate and hose down the president.

not that there's a double standard or anything... :wink:
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Sofia
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Sep, 2004 01:53 pm
blatham wrote:
Sofia wrote:
<I was hoping you wouldn't think I was suggesting that YOU personally move. It just seems so many people here really hate America. ...all the negative comments, comparisons and criticisms. If I felt that way, I'd just go.>


God, I do detest this black/white model for thinking.

There are things you don't like about your kid's school, so you gotta blow it up.

There are aspects to your child's personality or behavior you don't like, so have have to take him out back and shoot him between the eyes.

A wife says to her husband "I hate the way you leave beer cans on the coffee table", so therefore it's logical that she must leave the relationship.

Nobody here "hates America". Lots of people here hate certain characteristics of America and love other characteristics of America.


I have removed my children from substandard schools--as have many people. If conditions are as bad as many say they are--I just wonder why they're still here. Not black and white. More like, if you don't like it--find something you do like.

freeduck-- Being furious with Clinton never made any Republican not like the country. The focus was on one man. The focus I'm referring to is complaints about America by Americans.
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DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Sep, 2004 02:50 pm
Bi-Polar Bear wrote:
I must say however that despite my good intentions I probably won't be a very effective tool for recruitment with my long hair, jewelry and tattoos..


why i don't go there as well. except for the ink. funny though that the nuge gets by with it. must be all o' that FRESH GAME that he's wolfin' down, cause hannity just loves the guy. and totally buys it that ted "never inhaled".


Laughing
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DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Sep, 2004 02:58 pm
Sofia wrote:
freeduck-- Being furious with Clinton never made any Republican not like the country. The focus was on one man. The focus I'm referring to is complaints about America by Americans.


g'day sofia. you being one of the reasonable reps that i come across, could you please explain to me where the difference is? about the clinton/bush thing, that is. i get it constantly over the airwaves and in person, that if you don't go along with bush, you are unpatriotic. it's the same situation, really. it's bush's policies that i dislike not america.

to revive a bit of '60s stuff... remember the "love it or leave it" sticker. most of the people that i ran with back then prefered "fix it or forget it".

for me, it's not good stewardship of our country to pretend that there's nothing wrong when so many of us feel that there is.

since i don't choose to leave, my vote is to fix.
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Sep, 2004 03:00 pm
sofia said
Quote:
I have removed my children from substandard schools--as have many people. If conditions are as bad as many say they are--I just wonder why they're still here. Not black and white. More like, if you don't like it--find something you do like.


Or, how about setting out to work hard and change it?

On another thread, someone made a witty move by turning this "love it or leave it" idiocy around. Oddly, I've never seen that move made before, and it's wonderfully illuminating.

So, when someone says that the 'country is run by a liberal media elite' or some such, there is of course no reason why the response ought not to be "well then, go somewhere else."
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Sofia
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Sep, 2004 03:05 pm
I understand what you're saying--to a point.

When you criticise Bush or Clinton--who cares? They are men. When someone deeply criticises American capitalism, our wealth--like Piffka did somewhere--making what I took as a generalized, sweeping comment that struck America down to a foundational attribute--then I think, damn, why are you here? Can't remember what is was she said... It just made me wonder.

I'm not a love it or leave it type. Some acts of civil diobedience are just as American/patriotic IMO as voting--if they are for closely held principles. I'm not SUGGESTING anyone go anywhere, I just sincerely wonder why so many dissatisfied people don't.

Not a very complicated statement.
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Sep, 2004 03:12 pm
Love of country. Home.

Neither of those need exclude very strong opinions regarding what all a huge complex nation-state may get up to. If you read Twain on the American role in the Phillipines during his lifetime, you'll find indictments as strong as anything said on A2K, and of course, much better. Yet Twain is in many ways the quintessential American.

It would be quite accurate to say that Twain really loved his country, and really despised patriotism.
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Sofia
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Sep, 2004 03:16 pm
If he really loved his country, he was a patriot.
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Harper
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Sep, 2004 03:27 pm
Maybe it would be more accurate to say that Twain abhorred jingoism or blind patriotism. He also didn't appreciate libelists and plagiarists.
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Harper
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Sep, 2004 03:32 pm
Sofia wrote:
I understand what you're saying--to a point.

When you criticise Bush or Clinton--who cares? They are men. When someone deeply criticises American capitalism, our wealth--like Piffka did somewhere--making what I took as a generalized, sweeping comment that struck America down to a foundational attribute--then I think, damn, why are you here? Can't remember what is was she said... It just made me wonder.

I'm not a love it or leave it type. Some acts of civil diobedience are just as American/patriotic IMO as voting--if they are for closely held principles. I'm not SUGGESTING anyone go anywhere, I just sincerely wonder why so many dissatisfied people don't.

Not a very complicated statement.



OMFG! Piffka had the unmitigated gall to criticize capitalism! That is traitorous!!!!

S
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dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Sep, 2004 03:53 pm
well, Pifka is a woman, what do they know about politics?
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Piffka
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Sep, 2004 08:57 am
If Sophie has a high horse, I wish she'd get off of it.

Why should I leave? My family has worked harder than many to "save freedom," my family has worked harder than many to "build democracy." Is it my fault that there has been an incredible and ugly flow to the right?

What my preference would be is to regain some sanity in this country. That is a heavy burden, particularly when there are Republican sheep who baaah that they are the only ones who are right (even if, like Zell Miller, they have to froth and spittle) and they are the only ones who know anything AND if anybody doesn't like it they are wrong, they are unpatriotic, they are possible traitors, and they should leave.

So, when I talk about not liking where this country is now, besides the war, besides the political gerrymandering, besides the shift to the right, what I don't like is our very complicated form of "capitalism" that encourages, aids and abets those who are already rich to stay that way. I know about it because in a small way I am encouraged to do just that. And in a particularly nasty turn of morality, that same "capitalism" encourages those who are poor to blame themselves. They are bad. They are lazy. They are uneducated, etc. Blah, Blah, Blah.

The most insidious form is when these Republicans say that they cannot afford to help the "poor" (those lazy bastards) because it would be too costly... they cannot afford to help them have good schools (so let's have vouchers so we can have privatized special schools for ourselves), they cannot afford to help them have medical care. Let's all show our empty pockets while hiding wealth in all sorts of other orifices. Meanwhile, let's be sure and keep those wonderful tax breaks for all sorts of good capitalistic plots, let's allow wealth to flow out of this country and into offshore accounts, let's make laws that benefit people who already have more than enough for themselves to spend and spend and spend.

If I saw that these laws were doing good for the benefit of all, I wouldn't mind so much. If I thought trickle-down economics worked, I wouldn't fuss. But it isn't happening. What is happening is that the rich are insulating themselves more and more from the hoi polloi. I detest gated communities. I detest elitism and I detest this manhandled form of "capitalism" which encourages the wealthy to go through no end of gyrations -- tax-wise, ownership-wise, estate-wise, to legally do whatever it take in order to keep their wealth. I seriously question this as I question the motives behind W.'s push to lower the estate tax -- affecting 2% of the population. I seriously question the way our country's wealth has shifted so that the "Haves" lead over the "Have-nots" has increased by geometric progressions. I seriously question W.'s push to rollback taxes for the most wealthy while the country goes into bankruptcy, borrowing everywhere, spending way more than we bring in and making the amount we have to pay in interest servicing higher than what we give to the poor. Whoever do you think receive those fat interest payments? Have you ever wondered? Who really finances America?
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Sep, 2004 09:16 am
A few of Mr. Clemens thoughts on the human race and society:

"Next the statesmen will invent cheap lies, putting the blame upon the nation that is attacked, and every man will be glad of those conscience-soothing falsities, and will diligently study them, and refuse to examine any refutations of them; and thus he will by and by convince himself that the war is just, and will thank God for the better sleep he enjoys after this process of grotesque self-deception."

--- from The Mysterious Stranger, 1916,


"Man is the animal that blushes. He is the only one that does it--or has occasion to."


Commenting on the Phillipine war and the insurgency against American occupation, he wrote new lyricsto an old Patriotic song of the Civil War. This is the final verse of The Battle Hymn of the Republic (Brought Down to Date):

In a sordid slime harmonious Greed was born in yonder ditch,
With a longing in his bosom -- and for others' goods an itch.
As Christ died to make men holy, let men die to make us rich --
Our god is marching on.



A most interesting book would be a release of many of the "obscure" anti-war and anti-Phillipine policy works he wrote, and for which he usually could not find publishers. It is entitled A Pen Warmed up in Hell, the title comes from a letter he wrote to a friend upon completing A Connecticutt Yankee in King Arthur's Court:

Well, my book is written -- let it go. But if it were only to write over again there wouldn't be so many things left out. They burn in me; and they keep multiplying; but now they can't ever be said. And besides, they would require a library -- and a pen warmed up in hell.


Most significant is his War Prayer, which i posted here before the Shrub started his dirty little war. In the next post, although it is long, i think it bears re-posting.
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Acquiunk
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Sep, 2004 09:19 am
excellent point Piffka
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Sep, 2004 09:22 am
The War Prayer

-- Samuel Langhorne Clemens, c. 1904 or 1905


It was a time of great and exalting excitement. The country was up in arms, the war was on, in every breast burned the holy fire of patriotism; the drums were beating, the bands playing, the toy pistols popping, the bunched firecrackers hissing and spluttering; on every hand and far down the receding and fading spread of roofs and balconies a fluttering wilderness of flags flashed in the sun; daily the young volunteers marched down the wide avenue gay and fine in their new uniforms, the proud fathers and mothers and sisters and sweethearts cheering them with voices choked with happy emotion as they swung by; nightly the packed mass meetings listened, panting, to patriot oratory which stirred the deepest deeps of their hearts, and which they interrupted at briefest intervals with cyclones of applause, the tears running down their cheeks the while; in the churches the pastors preached devotion to flag and country, and invoked the God of Battles beseeching His aid in our good cause in outpourings of fervid eloquence which moved every listener. It was indeed a glad and gracious time, and the half dozen rash spirits that ventured to disapprove of the war and cast a doubt upon its righteousness straightway got such a stern and angry warning that for their personal safety's sake they quickly shrank out of sight and offended no more in that way.

Sunday morning came -- next day the battalions would leave for the front; the church was filled; the volunteers were there, their young faces alight with martial dreams -- visions of the stern advance, the gathering momentum, the rushing charge, the flashing sabers, the flight of the foe, the tumult, the enveloping smoke, the fierce pursuit, the surrender! Then home from the war, bronzed heroes, welcomed, adored, submerged in golden seas of glory! With the volunteers sat their dear ones, proud, happy, and envied by the neighbors and friends who had no sons and brothers to send forth to the field of honor, there to win for the flag, or, failing, die the noblest of noble deaths. The service proceeded; a war chapter from the Old Testament was read; the first prayer was said; it was followed by an organ burst that shook the building, and with one impulse the house rose, with glowing eyes and beating hearts, and poured out that tremendous invocation

God the all-terrible! Thou who ordainest! Thunder thy clarion and lightning thy sword!

Then came the "long" prayer. None could remember the like of it for passionate pleading and moving and beautiful language. The burden of its supplication was, that an ever-merciful and benignant Father of us all would watch over our noble young soldiers, and aid, comfort, and encourage them in their patriotic work; bless them, shield them in the day of battle and the hour of peril, bear them in His mighty hand, make them strong and confident, invincible in the bloody onset; help them to crush the foe, grant to them and to their flag and country imperishable honor and glory --

An aged stranger entered and moved with slow and noiseless step up the main aisle, his eyes fixed upon the minister, his long body clothed in a robe that reached to his feet, his head bare, his white hair descending in a frothy cataract to his shoulders, his seamy face unnaturally pale, pale even to ghastliness. With all eyes following him and wondering, he made his silent way; without pausing, he ascended to the preacher's side and stood there waiting. With shut lids the preacher, unconscious of his presence, continued with his moving prayer, and at last finished it with the words, uttered in fervent appeal, "Bless our arms, grant us the victory, O Lord our God, Father and Protector of our land and flag!"

The stranger touched his arm, motioned him to step aside -- which the startled minister did -- and took his place. During some moments he surveyed the spellbound audience with solemn eyes, in which burned an uncanny light; then in a deep voice he said:

"I come from the Throne -- bearing a message from Almighty God!" The words smote the house with a shock; if the stranger perceived it he gave no attention. "He has heard the prayer of His servant your shepherd, and will grant it if such shall be your desire after I, His messenger, shall have explained to you its import -- that is to say, its full import. For it is like unto many of the prayers of men, in that it asks for more than he who utters it is aware of -- except he pause and think.

"God's servant and yours has prayed his prayer. Has he paused and taken thought? Is it one prayer? No, it is two -- one uttered, the other not. Both have reached the ear of Him Who heareth all supplications, the spoken and the unspoken. Ponder this -- keep it in mind. If you would beseech a blessing upon yourself, beware! lest without intent you invoke a curse upon a neighbor at the same time. If you pray for the blessing of rain upon your crop which needs it, by that act you are possibly praying for a curse upon some neighbor's crop which may not need rain and can be injured by it.

"You have heard your servant's prayer -- the uttered part of it. I am commissioned of God to put into words the other part of it -- that part which the pastor -- and also you in your hearts -- fervently prayed silently. And ignorantly and unthinkingly? God grant that it was so! You heard these words: 'Grant us the victory, O Lord our God!' That is sufficient. the whole of the uttered prayer is compact into those pregnant words. Elaborations were not necessary. When you have prayed for victory you have prayed for many unmentioned results which follow victory -- must follow it, cannot help but follow it. Upon the listening spirit of God fell also the unspoken part of the prayer. He commandeth me to put it into words. Listen!

"O Lord our Father, our young patriots, idols of our hearts, go forth to battle -- be Thou near them! With them -- in spirit -- we also go forth from the sweet peace of our beloved firesides to smite the foe. O Lord our God, help us to tear their soldiers to bloody shreds with our shells; help us to cover their smiling fields with the pale forms of their patriot dead; help us to drown the thunder of the guns with the shrieks of their wounded, writhing in pain; help us to lay waste their humble homes with a hurricane of fire; help us to wring the hearts of their unoffending widows with unavailing grief; help us to turn them out roofless with little children to wander unfriended the wastes of their desolated land in rags and hunger and thirst, sports of the sun flames of summer and the icy winds of winter, broken in spirit, worn with travail, imploring Thee for the refuge of the grave and denied it -- for our sakes who adore Thee, Lord, blast their hopes, blight their lives, protract their bitter pilgrimage, make heavy their steps, water their way with their tears, stain the white snow with the blood of their wounded feet! We ask it, in the spirit of love, of Him Who is the Source of Love, and Who is the ever-faithful refuge and friend of all that are sore beset and seek His aid with humble and contrite hearts. Amen.

(After a pause.) "Ye have prayed it; if ye still desire it, speak! The messenger of the Most High waits!"

It was believed afterward that the man was a lunatic, because there was no sense in what he said.
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