It was directed towards internal attitudes. I thought it the only way, here on a forum such as this, where we might get some perspective on certain uniquenesses of America - uniquenesses which much of the rest of the world are not terribly comfortable with as the US government and a whole mess of its population grow a big hardon for war and God-sanctified custodianship of all the peoples of Creation.
Seems we have a winner in the definition of anti-Americanism.
blatham, We probably don't hear about Anti-Switzerlandnism, because that country has the highest suicide rate in the world. Canadians are too cold to give a damn, except Quebec wants to become a separate country. We are not unique; just more vocal in criticizing what's wrong with our country.
c.i.
my first real encounter with anti-americanism--i fought in southeast asia-came home and protested the war and was greeted with "america love it or leave it". i was then an american, i remained an american and will always be an american but that constant and oft times violent rhetoric of "love it of leave it" told me very directly that i was not to have a thought not consistent with what so many regarded as "american".
dys, If you're a true American, you must understand by now that we all have "free speech" in this country. That's the beauty of our freedoms, we can disagree with our fellow Americans and even the government without getting our heads chopped off. Those slogans such as "america love it or leave it" is in direct contradiction to our freedoms to say what we please, and comes from people of ignorance. Who knows whether we "love" our country or not? I love my country, but I speak out against many things our government does. That's being a true American is all about. c.i.
dys--
Who was the anti-American?
I know protesters feel that so-called 'establishment-types' may be questioning their 'patriotism'. Big deal. The protesters are protesting the country I love and the administration I may prefer.
Part of being American is having the luxury to protest, to protest the protesters...
The very thing you want the freedom to do: protest; you don't want to afford the ones who protest against what you are doing.
Protest is a two-way street. (At least two-way.) You are free to protest your country, and I am free to protest you.
Isn't that fair?
dys
Hate to abandon you like this, and yes, you have my point clearly.
ci
Likewise, will miss exchanges with you on political issues, but, no, America IS unique just as any culture or country is. The tricky bit is to understand in what ways that is so. And that is made even trickier because certain thoughts about one's own culture become impermissable - taboo - or 'anti-theculture'.
Lash
Once again, those goddamned trees loom up blocking the forest for you.
My concern with "anti-American' is the way it is used by
some on the political right to- to impugn the patriotism of
critics of the president. It is to me a serious malignment of
the politiical process.
When I was doing research dealing with the 1930's, I bumped into
material on the Dies Commitee. Martin Dies was a forerunner of Joe McCarhy.
At one point, the commitee was investigating left-wing writers to find out where their political sympathies lay. Those writers who by the early 1930's were warning the world about the "Hitleries" and the "Hitllerites" were labelled "premature anti-fascists." It was allright to be against Hitler after he marched into Poland. But not before.
"Premature anti-fascist"!!!!!! There are somethings you never forget.
ddd
Lash
Once again, those goddamned trees loom up blocking the forest for you.
This is a long goodbye, blatham. Poo or get off the pot. If you decide to poo, please cut the ad hominems and let me know what the above statement refers to.
You know you want to poo. No one will hold you to your 'future refusal to poo' declaration, but you must not make those pronouncements. In future, just get up from your chair and scream obscenities from your window.
This is what I do. Has worked so far.
Don't be such a Dilbert. (Now, we are even in the ad hominem department.)
lash you have really lost me on this one, the "freedom" i fought for, the freedom so many died for, the freedom to protest for or against, earns me the label of "anti-american"?
Blatham
That was a great article by Ash ---about 2/3 thru he touched on something that rang my bell. He said "Communist Russia united us and the middle east is dividing us". The thought occured to me that a lot of this bickering is caused by the fact that we no longer have a "common enemy" such as Communist Russia. It may be that we are all now our own worst enemy because the national interests of each country has sprung to the fore. Since the threat of nuclear extinction has been lifted(that kept the west at least partially united) all countries can go back to behaving like children with all the greed and duplicity that children display.
For a short time terrorism was a common enemy---now it is pure national interest that is our enemy.
dyslexia wrote:lash you have really lost me on this one, the "freedom" i fought for, the freedom so many died for, the freedom to protest for or against, earns me the label of "anti-american"?
lash, you lost me there too.
Perception- fascinating observation. I will have to think it through.
Anti Americanism
Blatham,
There are many in America who do not want a war with Iraq or anyone else for that matter, as seen by numerous demonstrations reported, and many not covered by the news media.
The average American does not wish to send their sons and daughters to a foreign land to kill or be killed, nor do we wish innocent people harmed.
Tossing blanket bias on an entire nation is irresponsible for those who don't have a damned clue about America's people.
dys
I know you don't want to hear this especially from me but---doesn't lash have a damn good point? Isn't protest a two-way street?
There should be a law against 'blanket tossing'.
perception: possibly you missed what i said :"the freedom so many died for, the freedom to protest for or against,"
please note PROTEST FOR OR AGAINST
and Lash my point was the "love it or leave it" i very definitly understood as a label of "anti-american" however i was only 20 yrs old at the time and just perhaps did not recognise the subtilites of ephithets.
dys--
Since I seem to be winning the "Most Misunderstood Person" award, I'd like to say very clearly that I don't think you're un-American.
I'd also like to ask you to think about what you are complaining about.
There you were protesting. Do you remember what you might have been saying? Do you think anyone hearing you might take offense? And, you are complaining about something someone said to you during a protest?
Nobody told you what you could say, and nobody tells opposing protesters what they can say.
It seems to me, liberal protesters want the street and freedom of speech to themselves sometimes.
Can you see my point?
dys
I think what Lash and I are deathly afraid of is that anyone who is our enemy will hear the protests against war and use it against us as Ho Chi Minh did in Vietnam----he won that war in the streets of America ---- not in the jungles and rice paddies of Vietnam. And right now MAYBE Saddam is hanging on because he hears that there have been rallies all over America against the war. Who knows---if it hadn't been for that round of protests just recently he might have caved in and left the country.
Does that make any sense to you?
perception, We can't let Saddam win the war on our freedom of speech. His is a totalitarian state where free speech is nonexistent. For whatever reasons he uses to continue his game of chicken or his noncooperation of revealing all of his WMD as spelled out in UNR1441, we can't be held responsible for his actions in any way. Besides, Saddam is not a rational madman. He continues his rhetoric that Iraq will win this war with the US. c.i.
