"Anti-Americanism"...what is this critter?

hobit, you are wrong. There may not be a direct connection but what does it matter? We are in Iraq to restore peace and give the country back to its citizens. Do you think its a negative thing to get rid of a dictator?

No, its not a negative thing to remove a dictator. It is a negative thing to occupy and oppress a population.

Thank God we're not doing that.

We aren't? I thought at the very least we had the Iraqi people in leg irons and were forcing them to give manicures to American G.I.'s. The way some characterize our presence in Iraq it sounds that at the very least we are somewhere between Simon Legree and Atilla the Hun.

Well, that's clarifying.

Of course, Sadaam wouldn't have become the wonderful fellow we know without support from the US (as in the anthrax he used, which was American anthrax).

Some of you use the term 'anti-americanism' as if one must be totally in support of all US acts and policies, or completely 100% against. That's a particularly silly way to think about the issue.

Or perhaps, the notion is that one can have some doubts about American perfectness, but that it certainly isn't ok to speak publicly about this.

And it is a curious aspect to certain protests above that it is mainly Americans themselves who are expressing dissatisfaction with certain American policies, acts, and characteristics.

And has been mentioned earlier on this thread, per capita, the US falls pretty far down the list of charitable nations, by the way.

If one considers which sort of government will insist that the dear fatherland is without any trace of baditude, or which will insist that it is tantamount to traitorous to voice such an opinion, then you are looking at the species of government which you've insisted america has saved the world from.

Are you sure about that American Anthrax, Blatham?

http://www.progressive.org/0901/anth0498.html

I just got over 30,000 hits on u.s. supply of anthrax to iraq. it doesn't really seem to be news - as this came out about 10 years ago.



US COMPANY SOLD ANTHRAXBACTERIA TO IRAQ

How long does anthrax survive as a bacteria?

William Blum has not written anything positive, good, or encouraging about the United States in 35 years. He is socialist to the core and implies just about everyting about the United States from Nixon to Clinton is nefarious, evil, disingenuous, or corrupt. It does explains the particular point of view held by those who read him I suppose.

As in all such damning 'exposes' of this type, an author can make big bucks by feeding those who want to believe what they write. Blum's theories have not been supported by the most liberal and anti-Reagan/Bush of the mainstream media, however.

It is no secret that the U.S. did help arm Iraq as a hedge against a fanatical and increasingly militant and dangerous Iran. Iran and Iraq were at war at the time and Iraq was considered the less dangerous of the two. In hindsight, that was probably a really dumb thing to do.

But without the 'facts' listed in Blatham's post being substantiated by another more objective and credible source, I have to suspect most or all of the damning 'evidence' listed has been skewed to fit Blum's very dark and contentious view of Americans and the United States.

Blatham's link is the text from an report on "Nightline" from 1998. You are going to have to do better than that, foxy.

Blatham that is how all my really bad days start out, I was thinking ... .

On the brighter side most days I don't think much at all.

That is as clear an example of the ad hominem fallacy as I've seen from you, foxfyre. You should know better, and you certainly should behave better. And please don't attempt a justification excusing this because of 'what liberals here do'. You are responsible for what comes off your own typewriter first, as are each one of us. William Blum might be a nazi or wear pink dresses from J Edgar Hoover's closet...THE ONLY RELEVANT MATTER IS THE FACTUAL CLAIM THAT THE US PROVIDED ANTHRAX TO SADAAM, AND THAT HE SUBSEQUENTLY USED IT, WHICH THE US KNEW ABOUT, AND WHICH THE US DID NOT MOVE TO PREVENT. ehBeth's note below mine makes your ad hominem fallacy that much more transparent and egregious. If you don't know these facts (and they are, as ehBeth notes, old news), then you haven't done your homework. And if you haven't done your homework, then you oughta ask yourself why.

The reason I began this thread, rather a long time ago, was to engage consideration of the functional blindness that results from the sort of posture we see in sofia's post above, or americanlon's, or yours on this page above, or in a thousand other posts on this board over the last year or two. That posture holds that America is a good place, that it doesn't do much at all that is bad but where it might do so it is justified either by self-interest or by comparison to other states, and that therefore any serious indictment of America's presence in the world is wrong-minded at best and a seditious support of evil at worst.

And meanwhile, the thousandds of innocent victims in Bophal HAVE YET TO RECIEVE A FUKKING PENNY. Meanwhile, Muslims listen to the your president talk about innocent American deaths in New York WHILE YOU NOR HE NOR PERHAPS ANY OTHER AMERICAN HAS THE SLIGHTEST NOTION OF HOW MANY INNOCENT IRAQI WOMEN, CHILDREN, AND MEN HAVE BEEN KILLED IN THE LAST YEAR. Meanwhile, your president and his principals talk about forwarding democracy WHILE SUGGESTING THAT THE GOVERNMENTS OF BRITAIN OR SPAIN OR AUSTRALIA OUGHT TO COMPLETELY IGNORE THE WISHES OF THE CITIZENS WHO PUT THEM INTO POWER. Meanwhile...this long list grows.

Unless you folks who continue to adopt this posture take a deep breath and face the negative consequences which have fallen out from the US presence in the world, your enemies will grow and keep coming at you as you and your barber shake your heads and wonder why anyone would dislike your nation.

Jawohl, Herr Oberfuehrer!

Seriously, Blatham, what's with your promise to work on the project we discussed at vast length?

If you won't pursue it (couple of years later) then please be kind enough to forward the 4 e-mails to my friend, ex-USMC, whose name and e-mail address you have.

Lots of love to you, daughter, and see what you can do about the baby seal slaughter on Canadian ice floes before picking on neighbors down south!

Recht herzlichen Dank!

Hi Ms HofT, Long time no see. Hope all is well with you. Please don't be too harsh of blatham; he's one of the good canuks. c.i.

You know her better, Blatham, but sometimes she can be really ... well, nasty inconvenient, especially, when in 'low approach' :wink:

'Hals- und Beinbruch', HofT!

Just saw this, and stopped by to say, I emphatically disagree. That is not the reason we are in Iraq.

But, that is the reason we are given that we are in Iraq.

I hope the truth will become more widely known, soon.

many many years. I island in Scotland was infected with anthrax and was out of bounds for years. I can't remember the details.

there is an entire building at Ft. Detrick that is off limits pretty much forever because of an accident with weaponized Anthrax.

If our government provided anthrax to Saddam, what gives our government the right to start a war with Iraq because they have anthrax? Am I missing the logic?