DrewDad
 
Reply Tue 31 May, 2016 07:31 am
Will his continued futile campaign for the Democratic nomination result in a backlash? Or is Vermont so hippy-dippy that they'll continue to support him?

Discuss.
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Type: Discussion • Score: 10 • Views: 2,948 • Replies: 66

 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 May, 2016 07:38 am
@DrewDad,
The attacks on Bernie and his supporters will continue until Unity ensues.
0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 May, 2016 07:41 am
In my view, it is not so much as him staying in, but his increasingly belligerent attitude of thinking the democrats owe him something of which I hope backlashes, but have my doubts of it happening. If he drops out now before California and NJ, Bernie supporters will claim he was forced out before all his chances to win were over.
Sturgis
 
  2  
Reply Tue 31 May, 2016 07:59 am
@DrewDad,
1)has the campaign truly been futile? No. Many issues have been brought forward; which, otherwise likely would have stayed sealed away.

2)your thread title shows you don't want a true and real discussion. You'd rather it became thread number 8000 on either Bernie bashing or Hillary praising.

3)Vermont may or may not be hippy-dippy. States rarely if ever are actually capable of having a political bent as they are not sentient beings in and of themselves.

For the record Vermontians are a mixture of people. In 2012 for example, the electorate gave 31% of their votes to Mitt Romney. In 2008 some 30% went for McCain. In 2004 a full 38% voted for Bush and 2000 gave him A whopping 40%. As recently as 1988, they gave their electoral votes to a Republican (George H. W. Bush over Michael Dukakis).

0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Tue 31 May, 2016 08:05 am
@revelette2,
Your view is missing an important fact Revelette. This isn't about Bernie. This is about us.

There are tens of millions of us who want the Democratic party to support progressive issues including single-payer health care, are deeply dissatisfied with the influence money has in politics for both parties and are worried about increased US military involvement in the world.

I think you are completely nuts if you think Hillary can just write off tens of millions of her progressive core. Hillary has to ask people for their votes. This will mean that she will compromise with the tens of millions of us... she won the nomination, but she needs to be reasonable and reach out to her progressive wing. Yes, that will mean she will compromise.

Hillary isn't stupid. For all of her faults, her intelligence isn't at all in question. She will do exactly that.

I get the fact you are pissed off and want Hillary to lash out at Bernie. But sorry, politics doesn't work that way, and spite does not win elections. Hillary will do what it takes to win .. even if in this case it means doing the right thing.

Your belligerence isn't helpful to winning an election. Your candidate will win... and you can't stop hard feelings, or even any bad behavior, by the other side.

You can, however, stop adding to the discord by slamming people who your candidate needs to unite with.
revelette2
 
  2  
Reply Tue 31 May, 2016 08:17 am
@maxdancona,
I'm sorry, but it is about Bernie. He is upset because his lifelong dream is coming to a close. I feel for him, but he is getting grumpy and thinking that the one who looses the war gets to have the spoils and it has never been that way in the history of mankind.

Having said that, since I agree with a lot of Bernie Sander's ideals, I hope most of them are accepted by the committees of the DNC platform. In one form or another.
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Tue 31 May, 2016 08:26 am
@revelette2,
You are contradicting yourself Revelette.

The "spoils of war" that you apparently don't think Bernie and his supporters deserve are the very ideals that you hope are accepted by the committees of the DNC platform. The way that this is going to happen is that the losing candidate is going to use his or her leverage based on the support of voters to push for their people to be in the process and their principle to be in the platform.

What Bernie is doing is exactly what Hillary did in 2008 (when she was on the losing side of the primary). This is how the process works.

What practically do you want to see (other than that Bernie is publicly punished in some way)?

DrewDad
 
  4  
Reply Tue 31 May, 2016 08:39 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
There are tens of millions of us who want the Democratic party to support progressive issues including single-payer health care, are deeply dissatisfied with the influence money has in politics for both parties and are worried about increased US military involvement in the world.

A couple of points:

1) "Tens of millions" is a lot of people, but there are also "tens of millions" of people who don't want all of those things. (I happen to be a person who agrees with you on these issues, but one has to acknowledge that this is not the only vocal minority with views.)
2) I'd be more impressed if these "tens of millions" of folks worked on these issues other than just during election season. Unless you're an activist on these issues, then you've got to choose among the candidates you're presented with.
revelette2
 
  2  
Reply Tue 31 May, 2016 08:42 am
@maxdancona,
Listen, perhaps I don't explain myself well. It is just the attitude he has been displaying of late of acting like he is owed something. I don't want him punished, but once Hillary is declared the winner of the primary, he should just back off of demands. If Hillary and the DNC want to offer him something, that is one thing, but him thinking he can demand something when he looses, is just not the way it is supposed to be and never has been. I know I am contradicting myself, it has been a big problem for me all along. It is like Hillary has said repeatedly and it is true, there is more to unite us than there is to divide us.
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Tue 31 May, 2016 08:50 am
@DrewDad,
If Hillary writes off the tens of millions of Bernie supporters, she will lose.

This is not unique to 2016. The winner of every primary goes through the same process of building a coalition. Candidates who don't successfully unify the party after the primary don't win the election.

You are right that working on progressive issues when it is not an election is important. But, that is irrelevant to the point I am making.

You started this post to attack Bernie. You are responsible for your own behavior.

Your attacks on Bernie are not helping Hillary, or Democrats in general, to win.

maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 May, 2016 08:52 am
@revelette2,
Revelette,

Bernie voters are owed something. If Hillary doesn't reach out to Bernie voters, she will lose the election. Period end of story.

Again, this isn't unique to 2016. Obama certainly reached out to Hillary and her supporters in 2008. The process of negotiating for leverage on the platform happens every year.

The demonization of Bernie only serves to drive a wedge between Hillary and the core progressive voters she needs to draw into her coalition if she wants to win the general election.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 May, 2016 08:59 am
@DrewDad,
too much mapley syrp goin on in Vt.
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Tue 31 May, 2016 09:29 am
@farmerman,
And Maine and New Hampshire and Rhode Island and West Virginia and Indiana and Michigan and Wisconsin and Minnesota and Oklahoma and Nebraska and Kansas and Colorado and Utah and Nebraska and Idaho and Oregon and Washington and Alaska...

and California.

Who doesn't like mapley syrup?
farmerman
 
  3  
Reply Tue 31 May, 2016 09:41 am
@maxdancona,
maine and NH maply syrps taste funky to me. I think they keep tapping late in the season so they get that "Iron-syrup taste"

I was not aware that those other states had maple syrp industries. (because then they forgot to list Pa and Ohio).
Are you presuming a Sanders win in Calif by my maply syrp analogy?

Bernie really has no original ideas you know. His ideas, like Trumps, are well worn, sophist assertions NO?
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 May, 2016 09:44 am
@farmerman,
Now you have crossed a line Farmerman.

I am not easy to offend, but anyone who knows anything about maple syrup knows that syrup from NH is without a doubt the best in the world. Although Vermont, being next to NH is pretty good (although their state is upside-down).

I will pretend you didn't make that comment.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  3  
Reply Tue 31 May, 2016 09:44 am
@farmerman,
Like both he nd Trump speak of "Energy Independence" What the hell does that even mean. Its a senseless phrase but these guys are counting on Doofus ameri-anus to pick it up as a real concept.

Im voting for an adult, even though she be imperfect and she sports a really annoying voice.
revelette2
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 May, 2016 09:45 am
@maxdancona,
You obviously have a pet peeve. I have explained where I am coming from, in my opinion, Hillary needs to do no more than she is currently doing which is trying appeal to Bernie supporters by pointing out what they have in common. I am not sure in what way you claim Obama did to reach out to Hillary voters once he became the clear front runner.

What I disagree with to give an example is Bernie going after committee members. Hillary didn't do things like that and if you claim she did, you will be just making it up.

The Bernie Sanders campaign has filed an official challenge to the credentials of Gov. Daniel Malloy and Barney Frank to serve as chair and co-chair of key committees at the Democratic convention because they are, "aggressive attack surrogates for Clinton."

It is actions like these which Sanders does which is more destructive to democrats than anything Trump will try to pull. He needs to lay off.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 May, 2016 09:48 am
@farmerman,
Bernie's ideas are pretty traditional progressive ideas. I want them well represented in the Democratic party which is why I want Bernie to stand his ground to get his issues in the platform, before he ultimately unites with Hillary to beat Trump.

I will admit that part of my support of Bernie stems from my dislike of the Clintons. They represent a side of the Democratic party that I find quite distasteful. And will even admit that I am not sure that Bernie would be the best president (I have understood for months that he was not going to be the nominee).

The point is that the issues he represents are important and getting the Democratic establishment to pay attention to them is very important.

I really wish Elizabeth Warren had run. She would be great president as well as a champion of progressive values.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 May, 2016 09:49 am
@farmerman,
Didn't Carter, Gore and both Clintons talk about "energy independence"?
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Tue 31 May, 2016 09:50 am
@farmerman,
Foreign policy, particularly the overuse of American military force, is the thing that worries me most about a second Clinton administration.
0 Replies
 
 

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