maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 May, 2016 09:55 am
@revelette2,
No, Bernie does not need to lay off.

Not surprising, I agree with Bernie on these committee members. This is completely within his rights. This happens every election. Clinton had a say in who was on the platform committee in 2008. Go back and read all that Clinton was given in 2008. (She was given a speaking slot, large influence on the platform committee and a cabinet position... PUMA's were demanding that she be given the Vice President role.)

This is Hillary's campaign now. She has to figure out how to draw in voters. Bernie voters are a fact of life that she has to deal with.

If she doesn't do a good job, she will lose the campaign. It's that simple.

DrewDad
 
  3  
Reply Tue 31 May, 2016 09:56 am
@revelette2,
revelette2 wrote:
more destructive to democrats

I really think that's the crux of the issue. I honestly think Sanders doesn't care about Democrats.

Sanders is an ideologue. That's part of his appeal for his supporters.

The rest of us, who think get part of what we want instead of none of what we want, are seen as impure and beneath contempt.



Quote:
Suicide Squad Leader: We are the Judean People's Front crack suicide squad! Suicide squad, attack!

[they all stab themselves]

Suicide Squad Leader: That showed 'em, huh?

maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 May, 2016 09:58 am
@DrewDad,
Quote:
I really think that's the crux of the issue. I honestly think Sanders doesn't care about Democrats.


Are Bernie Sanders' supporters included in the Democratic coalition. Think very carefully about the implications of your answer.

If you insist on driving Bernie Sanders and his supporters out of the Democratic tent... things won't look very good for Hillary.
DrewDad
 
  3  
Reply Tue 31 May, 2016 10:02 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
If you insist on driving Bernie Sanders and his supporters out of the Democratic tent...

My point is that Bernie was never inside the tent.


Quote:
“(TCU) is like a bunch of cockroaches. It’s not what they eat and tote off, it’s what they fall into and mess up that hurts.”

-Darrell K. Royal
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 May, 2016 10:12 am
@DrewDad,
Quote:

My point is that Bernie was never inside the tent.


And Bernie's supporters?

If Bernie's supporters aren't in the tent, Hillary is screwed. Maybe the problem is the tent.

revelette2
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 May, 2016 11:02 am
@maxdancona,
On the Bernie's in thread, there was link by Lash which showed most of the supporters of Bernie have said if Hillary wins, they will vote for her. I think when it comes down to it, common sense is going to win over most of Bernie supporters when you think of the alterative. In my lifetime I can't think of a worse alternative than Trump.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 May, 2016 11:12 am
@revelette2,
maybe Harpo Marx
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  3  
Reply Tue 31 May, 2016 12:17 pm
@revelette2,
Quote:
I think when it comes down to it, common sense is going to win over most of Bernie supporters when you think of the alterative. In my lifetime I can't think of a worse alternative than Trump.


I agree with this.

That being said, the more gracious Hillary is towards Bernie supporters, the more of them will end up voting for her (and just as important working for her) in the general election.

Hillary can't afford divisive attacks, such as the one that started this thread. If she wants to win, she is going to have to accept, and reach out to, the Bernie supporters she needs on her side.

This is an election, not a coronation. She, like any candidate before her, has to work hard to earn the votes she needs to win.


DrewDad
 
  3  
Reply Tue 31 May, 2016 12:43 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
Hillary can't afford divisive attacks, such as the one that started this thread.

I am completely unaffiliated with Hillary Clinton, except for choosing to vote for her.

0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  2  
Reply Tue 31 May, 2016 01:53 pm
@maxdancona,
I assume you also decry terms such as "Hillarybots?"
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Tue 31 May, 2016 05:25 pm
@DrewDad,
I am saying that for anyone who wants the Democratic nominee to win the general election, attacking fellow Democratic voters is insane.

Hillary needs to reach out to Bernie voters. This means inviting them into her coalition and compromising on issues that are important to them (as Democratic nominees have done so many time before).

For people who want Hillary to win the White House. Use of terms such as "Hillarybots" would be counterproductive. I said the same thing when Obama won in 2008, and I would say the same thing had Bernie won this year.

These attack posts aren't very helpful to Hillary.

0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 May, 2016 05:55 pm
@maxdancona,
Well said.

An egomaniac doesn't fly coach.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 May, 2016 05:57 pm
@maxdancona,
You got that right.
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  5  
Reply Tue 31 May, 2016 06:11 pm
@DrewDad,
I think Sanders demanding that his political enemies not have roles at the DNC convention is setting a bar so high that Clinton won't be able to go there so he will be able to continue saying he has been ill treated. He ran a really great campaign until a couple of months ago, but now he really seems off the rails. I think he is really blowing all the good he built up and the cred he would have had in the Senate.
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Tue 31 May, 2016 06:36 pm
@engineer,
You have always been a Hillary supporter (correct me if I am wrong). I think your opinion is still biased.

Bernie is responsible to his supporters first... if you could see things from the perspective of his supporters (the very people that Hillary needs to win this election) you would have a quite different opinion.

This doesn't change the fact that Hillary needs to take the lead and unite the party (regardless of what Bernie does). Its her campaign now, and the way that she reaches out to Bernie and his supporters is an important test of her ability to lead.
ossobuco
 
  3  
Reply Tue 31 May, 2016 06:39 pm
I have odd tastes re facial expressions, and I try to not listen to myself on it - I don't like people who always open their mouthes wide. Many fine people do this, for what reason they do it routinely I don't know, but it puts me off.

That is a problem for me for Andy Murray, the tennis player, whom I sort of like as a person, but the yap photos make me grimace. I've dual gender distaste on this. I might get it, as need for air, but that's not a universal tennis need exhibited..
I suppose it's my age, my lack of enthusiasm for seeing if tonsils are there.

I don't read a lot of Bernie by now, though I still get some of his generalities - but I get to keep seeing his angry yap. At this point, I don't read a lot of any of the leaders because of despair.

Today I voted for Hillary Clinton.
Not with vigor.
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  3  
Reply Wed 1 Jun, 2016 06:48 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
Bernie is responsible to his supporters first...

Really?

That seems counter to his whole "I'm not bought and paid for" schtick.

Is he responsible to his supporters, or is he responsible to his cause?
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Jun, 2016 06:57 am
@engineer,
engineer wrote:
I think he is really blowing all the good he built up and the cred he would have had in the Senate.

Yup, that's where I'm at. I respected him and his ideals, and I was glad that he was in the race pushing Hillary to the left.

This hanging-on-by-the-fingernails approach is counterproductive, and I think it's an example of why he wouldn't have made a good President. Now he gives the impression of being unable to face reality. He really needs to move from a take-no-prisoners attitude (which ends up netting him nothing once it's clear he's lost) to a lets-talk-about-this attitude (which could end up netting him real power to advance his agenda, if he could only bring himself to eat some humble pie.)
engineer
 
  4  
Reply Wed 1 Jun, 2016 07:07 am
@DrewDad,
His attacks on Barney Frank and Dannel Malloy seem much more about settling scores than advancing a liberal or socialist agenda. Both of these guys are respected liberals on the left side of the Democratic party, but Frank in particular has long been critical of Sanders as being holier than thou and ineffective in Congress because of a lack of willingness to compromise in the least. I'd never heard of Sanders before this election cycle, but I knew that Frank was a leading voice on the left in Congress.

Quote:
Both Frank and Malloy are long-time liberal stalwarts. Frank, who was one of the first openly gay congressman in American history, is the co-author of the landmark Dodd-Frank financial regulation and is a leading progressive figure. Malloy, a two-term governor, is head of the Democratic Governors Association and has notably raised taxes and pushed for gun control legislation in his state.

Yet the Sanders campaign claimed their criticisms of Sanders “have gone beyond dispassionate ideological disagreement and have exposed a deeper professional, political and personal hostility toward the senator and his campaign” and urged their removal as a result.
DrewDad
 
  0  
Reply Wed 1 Jun, 2016 07:32 am
@engineer,
https://bmorgan192014.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/screen-shot-2013-05-27-at-9-47-35-pm.jpg?w=527&h=374
Bernie's rapidly approaching the trough of disillusionment.... Does he have the legs to make it past that?
0 Replies
 
 

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