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Does Bush deserve to be POTUS one more time?

 
 
Dookiestix
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Sep, 2004 02:56 pm
McGentrix:

Quote:
So, I'll observe your pose and then carry on with life.


And take some english classes as well.
0 Replies
 
blacksmithn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Sep, 2004 02:56 pm
Yes, his actions do speak louder than his words.

Like ignoring the warning signs and allowing 9/11 to happen in the first place.

Like allowing the hunt for bin Ladin to be preempted by invasion of an uninvolved country.

Like misleading the country into that useless war. Although he did get Saddam's nifty pistol as a souvenir, so maybe that makes it all worthwhile in his mind.

Like failing to plan for the peace so completely that we're now involved in a foolish and costly guerrilla conflict with no end in sight (although I'm sure he'll toss out that old chestnut about "light at the end of the tunnel" anytime now).

Yep, indeed, his actions speak luder than his words. Unfortunately, he seems to put little thought into either.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Sep, 2004 02:59 pm
Dookiestix wrote:
McGentrix:

Quote:
So, I'll observe your pose and then carry on with life.


And take some english classes as well.


What's this? I'll ask in all seriousness, is English a second language for you? i ask because there is nothing wrong with my English aside from a few keyboard errors. If English is not your second language, I will mark that down as an infantile remark not worth replying to.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Sep, 2004 03:11 pm
McGentrix wrote:
Dookie,

You forced denial in understanding what the president says is nothing more than a smokescreen of denial keeping you from recognizing the fact that Bush, while not the best president ever, is a far cry from the worse.

In these trying times of extremism in American politics, it is in vogue to strike a pose and be against the president. So, I'll observe your pose and then carry on with life.


Hey, McG...

...I know we're friends and friends normally like to stick together...but...

....I would say that George Bush is either the worst president we've ever had....and this administration the worst...

...or they are so close to it, debating the matter is silly.

This administration certainly is the worst I've personally ever lived through...and I've been around since Franklin Roosevelt.
0 Replies
 
blueveinedthrobber
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Sep, 2004 03:19 pm
McGentrix, how exactly does one call someone a poser in a denigrating manner when their avatars have in turn been Dick Cheney and Ronald Reagan?
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Sep, 2004 04:37 pm
Frank Apisa wrote:
McGentrix wrote:
Dookie,

You forced denial in understanding what the president says is nothing more than a smokescreen of denial keeping you from recognizing the fact that Bush, while not the best president ever, is a far cry from the worse.

In these trying times of extremism in American politics, it is in vogue to strike a pose and be against the president. So, I'll observe your pose and then carry on with life.


Hey, McG...

...I know we're friends and friends normally like to stick together...but...

....I would say that George Bush is either the worst president we've ever had....and this administration the worst...

...or they are so close to it, debating the matter is silly.

This administration certainly is the worst I've personally ever lived through...and I've been around since Franklin Roosevelt.


Frank, you know I would never miss the chance at a round of golf with you but your incessant use of the term "moron" makes me doubt your opinion of Bush could be anymore slanted. You wish to believe the worse, despite the facts and despite everything that you can read about the administration. I agree that debating the issue with some members of A2K is silly.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Sep, 2004 04:38 pm
Dookiestix wrote:
a bunch of stuff that skirts/ignores my question


Why are you ignoring my question Dookiestix?
0 Replies
 
Dookiestix
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Sep, 2004 04:50 pm
McGentrix:

Sigh...

Because until you take those english classes, it is utterly pointless to try and explain to you what a grammatically correct statement looks like and the direct meaning behind it. ESPECIALLY since your interpretation of what Dumbya said is flat out incorrect. I dare you to find an english professor who would tell you otherwise.

English is my first language, and if we were to compare our prose side by side, perhaps you would see things differently. But I seriously doubt it...

I've also offered a small snippet of Dumbya's history of Bushisms (there is so much out there) which would need further explanation from one such as yourself, as you seem to be the only one who can yank the meaning out of Dumbya's amazingly flawed grasp of the english language.

There IS no denial as to what Dumbya said based on his quote regarding harming our country. But perhaps if you ACTUALLY admitted that what Bush said was ridiculously flawed and probably not his intended thoughts, then this interaction may not have escalated to where it is now.

But you were the one who directly changed the meaning of his grammatically correct quote to suit YOUR "slant."

Is any of this becoming any clearer yet? I hope so...
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Sep, 2004 04:57 pm
Yes, it is clear to me now that you see Bush as an "inferior" because he isn't a wonderful orator. I have never claimed he was. I did however demonstrate my ability to translate what Bush says using the context of his statements to understand what he means. It's unfortunate that it's neccessary to do that.

You have demonstrated again and again a lack of ability to use comprehension in understanding what it is he is saying. You, and others like you choose instead to be-little and use terms like "moron" because you believe yourself to be "superior" to Bush in someway.

But, while he is presiding over the most powerful nation on earth, you are arguing with me on a chat forum.
0 Replies
 
Jer
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Sep, 2004 04:58 pm
Dookie,

I'm not a Bush fan at all...but I've gotta tell you that it's hard to take anything you say seriously when you say "Dumbya".

I'll be reading along agreeing with what you're saying and then WHACK "Dumbya" hits me and I tune out. So if that's the effect it's having on a lefty...imagine how much a Bush-lover would tune out.
0 Replies
 
Dookiestix
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Sep, 2004 05:02 pm
LOL!!!!

Why should ANY American need a neoconservative translator to tell them what their pResident really means?

Unbelievable!
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Sep, 2004 05:02 pm
McGentrix wrote:
Frank, you know I would never miss the chance at a round of golf with you but your incessant use of the term "moron" makes me doubt your opinion of Bush could be anymore slanted. You wish to believe the worse...


Ahhh, McG, if only you had stopped there, I would have overlooked the use of the word "believe"...and would have agreed with you.

But then you added:

Quote:
...despite the facts and despite everything that you can read about the administration.


Good grief, Mc G, I have NOT overlooked the facts...and my decision that Bush is a moron and that his handlers are a danger more real than any terrorists...is based on "the facts."

And I certainly have not overlooked any of the stuff written about the administration. In fact, one of the reasons that I think this administration will go down in history as one of the mosts deranged, destructive, and incompetent administrations in US history...is based on what I've seen written.

You are too intelligent to be backing Bush, McG.

He's a loser...and his handlers are (wittingly or unwittingly) doing more damage to our civil liberties; our standing in the world community; our integrity; and our prestige.

They are dolts...this group of incompetents.

Don't come over to the other side...I can understand that.

But stop backing him.

It is beneath you.
0 Replies
 
Jer
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Sep, 2004 05:10 pm
Well put.

Frank Apisa wrote:
McGentrix wrote:
Frank, you know I would never miss the chance at a round of golf with you but your incessant use of the term "moron" makes me doubt your opinion of Bush could be anymore slanted. You wish to believe the worse...


Ahhh, McG, if only you had stopped there, I would have overlooked the use of the word "believe"...and would have agreed with you.

But then you added:

Quote:
...despite the facts and despite everything that you can read about the administration.


Good grief, Mc G, I have NOT overlooked the facts...and my decision that Bush is a moron and that his handlers are a danger more real than any terrorists...is based on "the facts."

And I certainly have not overlooked any of the stuff written about the administration. In fact, one of the reasons that I think this administration will go down in history as one of the mosts deranged, destructive, and incompetent administrations in US history...is based on what I've seen written.

You are too intelligent to be backing Bush, McG.

He's a loser...and his handlers are (wittingly or unwittingly) doing more damage to our civil liberties; our standing in the world community; our integrity; and our prestige.

They are dolts...this group of incompetents.

Don't come over to the other side...I can understand that.

But stop backing him.

It is beneath you.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Sep, 2004 05:12 pm
Jer wrote:
Dookie,

I'm not a Bush fan at all...but I've gotta tell you that it's hard to take anything you say seriously when you say "Dumbya".

I'll be reading along agreeing with what you're saying and then WHACK "Dumbya" hits me and I tune out. So if that's the effect it's having on a lefty...imagine how much a Bush-lover would tune out.



Actually, "Dumbya" is a cleaned up version.

George ADumbyaOL Bush is the full moniker...

...if you haven't tuned out.
0 Replies
 
Jer
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Sep, 2004 05:30 pm
I'm as angry about dubya as either of you...all those names do is heat up an already boiling kettle...and maybe this is just a place to vent, but I always hope that it's a place where people will learn too. You know?
0 Replies
 
Dookiestix
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Sep, 2004 06:04 pm
Jer:

I hear ya. Unfortunately, this particular election cycle has bred more hatred towards Bush and this administration than any other in my memory. I've never in my life experienced the unbelievable vitriol that has come from the neoconservative right. If we don't fight back, then we stand a chance of losing so much more.
0 Replies
 
Jer
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Sep, 2004 12:54 am
Dookie,

I hear you. But you're not going to change any minds by calling the president "dumbya" - I promise that. So if you're going to invest the time in trying to change minds by providing good, solid info - then drop the juvenile name-calling so people won't dismiss your argument straightaway.

I'm telling you this because you do spend a lot of time debating and usually you've got solid arguments - and because I do think it is that important to make sure that bastard and his puppeteers don't get re-elected.


Dookiestix wrote:
Jer:

I hear ya. Unfortunately, this particular election cycle has bred more hatred towards Bush and this administration than any other in my memory. I've never in my life experienced the unbelievable vitriol that has come from the neoconservative right. If we don't fight back, then we stand a chance of losing so much more.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Sep, 2004 01:23 am
Jer speaketh with wise tongue...
0 Replies
 
melbournian cheese
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Sep, 2004 01:25 am
a while back someone said George Bush 'won' the 2000 election...ummm....right.
I hate going through this (seeing as it takes so long):

The 'rigging' of the election began long before Election Day 2000. In the summer of 1999 Katherine Harris, who was both George W. Bush's presidential campaign cochairwoman and the Florida secretary of state in charge of elections, paid $4 million to Database Technologies to go through Florida's voter rolls and remove anyone 'suspected' of being a former felon. She did so with the blessing of the governor of Florida, George W.'s brother Jeb Bush - whose own wife was caught by immigration officials trying to sneak $19,000 without declaring and paying tax on it...a felony in it's own right. But of course you Americans don't prosecute felons if they're rich or married to a governing Bush.

The law states that ex-felons cannot vote in Florida. And sadly that means 31% of all black men in Florida are prohibited from voting because they have a felony on their record. Harris and Bush knew that removing the names of ex-felons from the voter rolls would keep thousands of black citizens out of the voting booth.
Black Floridians, overwhelmingly, are Democrats - and sure enough, Al Gore received the votes of more than 90% of them on November 7, 2000.
That is, 90% of those who were allowed to vote.
In what appears to be a mass fraud committed by the state of Florida, Bush, Harris, and company not only removed thousands of black felons from the rolls, they also removed thousands of black citizens who had never committed a crime in their life - along with thousands of eligible voters who had committed only misdemeanors.

How did this happen? Harris's office told Database - a firm with strong Republican ties - to cast as wide a net as possible to get rid of these voters. Her minions instructed the company to include even people with 'similar' names to those of the actual felons. They insisted Database check people with the same birth dates as known felons, or similar Social Security numbers; an 80 percent match of relevant information, the election office instructed, was sufficient for Database to add a voter to the ineligible list.
These orders were shocking, even to Bush-friendly Database. They would mean that thousands of legitimate voters might be barred from voting on Election Day just because the had a name that sounded like someone else's, or shared a birthday with some unknown bank robber. Marlene Thorogood, the Database project manager, sent an e-mail to Emmett 'Bucky' Mitchell, a lawyer for Katherine Harris's election division, warning him that, "Unfortunately, programming in this fashion may supply you with false positives," or misidentifications. Never mind that, said ol' Bucky. His response: "Obviously, we want to capture more names that possibly aren't matches and let county election supervisors make a final determination rather than exclude certain matches altogether."

Database did as they were told. And before long 173,000 registered voters in Florida were permanently wiped off the voter rolls. In Miami-Dade, Florida's largest county, 66 percent of the voters who were removed were black. In Tampa's county, 54 percent of those who were denied the right to vote on November 7, 2000 were black.

But culling names from Florida's records alone was not enough for Harris and her department. Eight thousand additional Floridians were thrown off the voting rolls because Database used a false list supplied by another state, a state which claimed that all the names on the list were former convicted felons who had since moved to Florida.
It turns out that the felons on the list had served their time and had all their voting privileges reinstated. And there were others on the list who had only committed misdemeanors - such as parking violations or littering. What state was it that offered Jeb and George a helping hand by sending this bogus list to Florida?
Texas.

On November 7, 2000, as black Floridians flocked to the polls in record numbers, many were met with a blunt rebuke: "You cannot vote." In a number of precincts in Florida's inner cities, the polling locations were heavily fortified with police to block anyone on Katherine and Jeb's 'felons list' from voting. Hundreds of law-abiding citizens looking to exercise their constitutional right to vote, mostly in black and Hispanic communities, were sent away - and threatened with arrest if they protested.

George W. Bush would officially be credited with receiving 537 more votes than Al Gore in Florida. Is it safe to say that the thousands of black and Hispanic voters barred from the polls might have made a difference if they had been allowed to vote - and cost Bush the election?
Without a doubt.

On election night, after the polls closed, there was much confusion over what was happening with the counting of the votes in Florida. Finally a decision was made by the man in charge of the election night desk for the Fox News Channel. He decided that Fox should go on the air and declare that Bush had won Florida and thus the election. And that's what happened. Fox formally declared Bush the winner.

But down in Tallahassee, the counting of the votes had not yet been completed; in fact, the Associated Press insisted it was too close to call, and refused to follow Fox's lead.
Not so the other networks. They ran like lemmings after Fox made the call, afraid that they would be seen as slow or out of the loop - even though their own news reporters on the ground were insisting that it was too early to call the election. But who needs reporters when you're playing follow the leader - the leader, in this case, being John Ellis, the man in charge of Fox's election coverage. Who is John Ellis?
He's the first cousin of George W. and Jeb Bush.
Once Ellis made the call and everyone followed suit, there was no going back - and nothing was more psychologically devastating for Gore's chances of winning than the sudden perception that he was being the spoiler by asking for recounts, withdrawing his concession of defeat, tying up the courts with lawyers and lawsuits. the truth is that during all of this, Gore actually was ahead - he had the most votes - but that was never how the news media played it.

On election night, after the networks had first - correctly - projected the state of Florida for Gore. The cameras cut to a hotel room in Texas. There sat George W. with his father, the former president, and his mother, Barbara. The old man appeared cool as a cucumber, even though it looked like curtains for Sonny. A reporter asked young Bush what he thought about the outcome.
"I'm not conceding anything in Florida," Junior piped up, semicoherently. "I know you've all the projections, but people are actually counting the votes...the networks called this thing awfully earlier and people are actually counting the votes have different perspective." It was an odd moment in that crazy night of election result coverage. The Bushes, with their relaxed smiles, looked like a family of cats that had just wolfed down a bunch of canaries - as if they knew something we didn't.

They did. They knew Jeb and Katherine had done their job months earlier. They knew cousin John was holding down the fort at Fox election central. And if all else failed, there was always that team Poppy could count on: the United States Supreme Court.
As we all know, that's exactly what happened for the next 36 days. The forces of the Empire struck back, and they did so without mercy. While Gor was stupidly concentrating on getting recounts in a few counties, the Bush team was going after the holy grail - the overseas absentee ballots. Many of these ballots would come from the military, which typically votes Republican, and would finally give Bush the lead that denying the vote to thousands of blacks and Jewish grandmothers hadn't.

While Kim Baker was chanting his mantra - "It is not fair to change the rules and standards governing the counting or recounting of votes after it appears that one side has concluded that is the only way to get the votes it needs." - he and his operatives were doing just that.

A july 2001 investigation by the New York Times showed that of the 2,490 overseas ballots that ended up being included in the certified election results, 680 were considered to be flawed and questionable. Bush got the overseas vote by a ratio of 4 to 5. By that percentage, 544 of the votes that went to Bush should have been thrown out. Suddenly Bush's winning margin of 537 votes was down to a chilling negative 7.

Within hours of the election, the Bush campaign had launched their attack. The first step was to make sure that as many ballots got in as possible. Republican operatives sent out frantic e-mails to navy ships asking them to dig up any ballots that might be hanging around. Thousands of votes poured in - even some that were signed after election day. Now all they had to do was make sure that as many of these votes as possible went to W. And so the real thievery began.

According to the Times, Katherine Harris had planned to send out a memo to her canvassing boards clarifying the procedure for counting overseas ballots. Included in this memo was a reminder that state law required all ballots to have been "postmarked or signed and dated" by election day. When it was clear that George's lead was rapidly sinking, she decided not to send the memo. Instead, she sent out a note that said ballots "are not required to be postmarked on or prior to" election day. Hmmm.

What caused her to change her mind - and the law? We may never know, since the computer records of what happened have been mysteriously erased - a possible violation of Florida's Sunshine Laws. Now, long after the horse has left the barn, Harris has turned over her hard drives to the media for inspection - but only after her own computer consultant "looked them over."

"Equal Representation" Florida style, meant that the rules governing acceptance or denial of your absentee ballot depended on what county you were from. Perhaps that would explain how counties where Gore won, only 2 out of 10 absentee ballots with unclear postmarks were counted; in Bush counties, predictably, 6 out of 10 such ballots made it into the final tally.

When the Democrats complained that ballots that didn't follow the rules shouldn't be counted, the Republicans launched a fierce public relations campaign to make it look as if the Democrats were trying to screw the men and women who were risking their lives for your country. A Republican city council member from Naples was typical in his hyperbole: "If they catch a bullet, or fragment from a terrorist bomb, that fragment does not have any postmark or registration of any kind."

As the New York Times found out:
344 ballots had no evidence that they were cast on or before Election Day
183 ballots were postmarked in the United States
96 ballots lacked appropriate witness information
169 ballots came from unregistered voters, had envelopes that weren't signed properly, or came from people who hadn't requested a ballot
5 ballots came after the November 17 deadline
19 overseas voters voted on two ballots - and had both counted.

All of these ballots violated Florida law, yet they all were counted.
BUSH DIDN'T WIN! GORE DID.
Author: Michael Moore (Stupid White Men)

There, I hope that clears everything up. Very Happy In case you forgot, THE 2000 ELECTION WAS RIGGED!! I could have added more but I wouldn't want to insult your intelligence.

(hope you could read all that without getting too bored)
0 Replies
 
melbournian cheese
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Sep, 2004 01:29 am
also, someone said that Bush wasn't the worst ever President of the United States, then who was?
0 Replies
 
 

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