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Chris Matthews Destroys Swiftboat Liar John O'Neil

 
 
Brand X
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Aug, 2004 01:38 pm
I think the greatest thing that could happen for this election is if Kerry somehow redeems himself to these guys and explains some of the questions in detail because I do think he owes them and the country that if he truly wants to be president.

I don't think he is on solid enough ground to do that, sadly.

I'm afraid he is as bad as they say he is and if it brings his campaign down to where he has no chance of beating Bush then all hell will break lose with the ABB's.

It will be even more bitter than it is now, not good at all.
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Aug, 2004 01:41 pm
It won't bring his campaign down because Kerry's not going to sit around and argue about it.

After all, it's really a 'do you still beat your wife?' type of attack. No matter what Kerry says he is going to come off as a bad guy; the proponents of the attacks just keep asking for more proof, or find someone who says Kerry is a liar, ad infinitum.

Same thing with the military records of Bush. No matter how clean he comes, it still looks bad for him. Capice?

Cycloptichorn
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Karzak
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Aug, 2004 01:53 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
It won't bring his campaign down because Kerry's not going to sit around and argue about it.

After all, it's really a 'do you still beat your wife?' type of attack.


Hardly, it is virtually every peer andd superior from Kerry's time in Nam saying he is unfit for command.

Kerry won't argue it, of course, because he can't hide from the truth. To the undecideds who will see kerry fearfully avoid commenting on the charges themselves with anything other than personal attacks the truth will be apparent.

Kerry is hurting badly, by his own handywork.
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Aug, 2004 01:55 pm
Yet he remains ahead in almost every poll. What does that tell you about popular support for your candidate, K?

Cycloptichorn
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DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Aug, 2004 02:07 pm
SwiftBoat Veterans for Bush ?
javascript:emoticon('Rolling Eyes')

o.k. i'm not a dem, and not particularly liberal. voted repl in the presidentials 70's thru the late 80's. so don't go r/w on me.

what i see of the swifties is this; this is a very old feud between o'neill and kerry. having read the transcript of the '71 cavett debate between the two (on the swiftboat site), i noticed that o'neill made not one allegation against kerry's citations or p/h's. his entire complaint was with kerry's anti-war activity following his return to the states.

if, as he claims, he is telling the truth about kerry's citations, why wait 34 years to bring it up? considering his claim to have replaced kerry on the boat, wouldn't he have known about the allegations in '71? wouldn't he have used them to undermine kerry's position then? i sure as hell would have.

so why did o'neill wait till now to put this bunch together?

could it be, umm... P-O-L-I-T-I-C-S ??

there's something pretty fishy about the whole thing, imho.

just a couple of oddities to chew on...

1) thurlow was reportedly the ranking officer that day(rassman rescue). yet he claims, with no proof, that kerry wrote up the after action report. now doesn't the ranking officer normally write the reports? and if he assigns it to someone else, isn't it his job to read it and sign off?

2) why didn't thurlow raise an objection when he recieved a bronze star based on the very same report he challenges? wouldn't that have been the truthful thing to do? he says"he got it after he was cashiered and went home and forgot about it". must not have been too bothered by getting a medal based on a lie at the time, huh?

3) thurlow is now saying that "kerry staged the whole thing". is this guy nuts or what? how the hell does that work? what, kerry swims out under a moonless night, tethers a mine and the next day makes sure that another guy's boat hits it? then grabs a green beret and throws him off the boat? this is the same bunch that says that kerry had a guy film his re-enactment of the war for later use. and they say that hollywood is la-la land. sheesh... funny though, nobody has brought that up about the filming of bush sr.'s "rescue at sea".

4) both thurlow and elliot have praised kerry in the past. and both have now flip-flopped on their "swift boat truths" over the last few weeks.

these guys are playing a very stupid and dangerous game. they have now opened the door to question every single citation ever awarded to any soldier. and that probably means a lot of you reading this right now.

and here's something else to think about. kerry could have avoided any service and vietnam in particular. using the same deferments that kept cheney, ashcroft, delay and, yes, clinton, et al cozy and safe at home. or even the national guard sidestep that worked so well for quayle and bush jr.

but he didn't. he volunteered for 2 tours of duty. and the idea that he went just to pad his resume is silly. would you step in front of a bullet just to get a job?

if you want to get a clue on who does what for the vets, think about what o'neill did when he got home. then go to the thomas website and look through the multiple legislations that kerry sponsored, co-sponsored or voted for in favor of veteran's benefits and rights. and against when it hurt vets.

this swift boats stuff is the same type of dirty politics that were used on mccain and cleland.

bottom line; bush in 1968-69 - tejas. kerry in 1968-69 vietnam.
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DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Aug, 2004 02:25 pm
Swift boats for bush?
Karzak wrote:
Anyone else feeling deja vue remembering hillarys "giant right wing conspiracy" chuckles?

gee... isn't it the republicans who are complaining daily about george soros and moveon.org. ?? i have heard more than one "rush hannity" rant, as well as ultra conservatives, gripe about "left wing extremists that want to hurt this president".

they never seem to complain about richard mellon-scaife, the arkansas project, or the christian coalition, among others, do they?

ohmygawd!!! it's a vast left wing conspiracy !!
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Aug, 2004 02:32 pm
Careful, you'll blow it!

Cycloptichorn
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DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Aug, 2004 02:40 pm
swift boat vets for bush?
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Careful, you'll blow it!

ooopppsss ! sorry ! forgot it's supposed be a big, dark secret among the 50%+ of the country that's "out of the mainstream".

javascript:emoticon('Laughing')
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PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Aug, 2004 02:42 pm
Welcome to A2K, d.t.o.m.

Karzak, God love him, is one of the forum's less-enlightened (and less obnoxious) right-wing nuts.

He's more the kind of neoconservative that nails manifestos on telephone poles than the kind (and you'll know them when you read them) that hears aliens from Uranus transmitting hate about Democrats and liberals through their teeth fillings, which they are then compelled to post here immediately.
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DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Aug, 2004 03:05 pm
swift boat vets for bush?
PDiddie wrote:
Welcome to A2K, d.t.o.m.


thanks! i occasionally come across something that really compels me to to toss in my humble opinion.

i do have to say, that unlike some in our country, i still believe in the multiparty system. what i don't support is uninformed and unresearched spewing of "sound byte" rhetoric. from any side. that said, nothing wrong with a little healthy speculation as long as it is presented as such.

so, happy harping to one and all... Laughing
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Karzak
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Aug, 2004 03:33 pm
I guess my point went over some heads.

The left is screaming "vast right wing consiracy" thinking this will convince anyoe but the already convinced faithful that the charges are false.

I have news for you all, just because a charge is politically motivated does not make it false.

Kerry needs to answer to the charges and stop bashing the war heroes with better records than his.

Kerry was already caught blatently lying about being in Cambodia, it is now up to him to prove the rest isn't a lie as well, with some 250 vets that served with him in nam saying Kerry is unfit for command and two vets saying he is.
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kickycan
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Aug, 2004 03:39 pm
I think Kerry is exploiting his service, and that makes me kind of sick. But I also think that Bush is exploiting 9/11, and tying it in with Iraq, which makes me even sicker.

I vote to evict...Bush!
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Karzak
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Aug, 2004 03:40 pm
Well, unlike Kerrys nam lies, Bush actually showed leadership after 9/11.
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DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Aug, 2004 03:43 pm
swift boat vets for bush?
Karzak wrote:

I have news for you all, just because a charge is politically motivated does not make it false.

and it doesn't make it true, either for that matter.

remember whitewater? how much tax money was wasted only to find that clinton lost some money? gee that didn't work... "hey! how about his personal life??" how much time (a few years) and money( about 70 million) was wasted by newty, starr and the rest of the republican revolution to bring down a dem president. guess they should have paid more attention to what was going on in the middle east, huh?
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blueveinedthrobber
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Aug, 2004 03:45 pm
Karzak wrote:
Well, unlike Kerrys nam lies, Bush actually showed leadership after 9/11.


Most stupid post so far today.......IMO....
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kickycan
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Aug, 2004 03:46 pm
Karzak wrote:
Bush actually showed leadership.


The same could be said about David Koresh.
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Karzak
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Aug, 2004 03:48 pm
Well, Clinton Diddled while Osama planned out and started 9/11.

The swiftboat vets have the overwhelming (and I mean overwhelming as in 250 to 2) number of eyewitnesses to kerrys nam actions on their side.

If it isn't true how come the only people standing behind kerry are he ones who will lose face if the truth comes out?
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DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Aug, 2004 03:49 pm
swift boat vets for bush?
Karzak wrote:
Well, unlike Kerrys nam lies, Bush actually showed leadership after 9/11.


and unlike bush's iraq "bad intelligence" (lol), kerry actually showed up for vietnam.

like someone else mentioned before, "were you there?". if not, you DO NOT KNOW the truth. and either do i. however, this stuff certainly resembles the karl rove method of abortion.
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blueveinedthrobber
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Aug, 2004 03:50 pm
what leadership? started a war with bin Laden and left it unfinished to start a war against the guy who traahhhed to kill his daddy, f*&ked it up, and declared war on his own country's personal freedoms, economy, and fiscal well being. Yep, that's leadership all right.
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blueveinedthrobber
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Aug, 2004 03:51 pm
Karzak wrote:
Well, Clinton Diddled while Osama planned out and started 9/11.

The swiftboat vets have the overwhelming (and I mean overwhelming as in 250 to 2) number of eyewitnesses to kerrys nam actions on their side.

If it isn't true how come the only people standing behind kerry are he ones who will lose face if the truth comes out?


when all else fails..."Well Clinton,"......now there's something worth LOL ing about.....
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