28
   

The Supreme Court vacancy, a minefield for Republicans

 
 
Brandon9000
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 22 Feb, 2016 08:40 pm
@Real Music,
Real Music wrote:
In 1993 republicans and conservative groups were proposing alternative plans to Bill and Hillary Clinton Healthcare Reform. Conservative groups who embraced these alternate plans included both the Heritage Foundation and the American Enterprise Institute. One of those plans was (Health Equity And Access Reform Today Act Of 1993). This bill never got voted on. The point man for this bill was republican Senator John Chafee from Rhode Island. Other republican sponsors to this bill included then Minority Leader Bob Dole from Kansas, Senator Orrin Hatch from Utah, Charles Grassley from Iowa, Richard Lugar from Indiana, as well as 13 other republican senators along with 2 dems sponsors.

Features included in this 1993 republican bill were
1. An individual mandate
2. Creating of Purchasing Pools
3. Standardizing benefits
4. Vouchers for the poor to buy insurance
5. A ban on denying coverage based on a pre-existing condition

I don't know whether or not this is identical to Obamacare. If it isn't identical, it's pretty darn close to being identical. I guess Obamacare was okay in 1993. I guess Obamacare was also okay when Mitt Romney passed it in Massachusetts. Obamacare is okay, just as long it didn't come from Obama..

A well researched response. I, personally, have always been for Obamacare and have said so both here and other places. The main feature which I liked was that poor people could have health care, particularly elderly poor. I am still for Obamacare, but I think it needs to be fixed, because I have seen cases of people who cannot get a subsidy, but don't really have the money to pay for it themselves. However, my main point is that I, personally, have always been for it. I have talked to conservatives who were against it and they always had a couple of specific points they objected to.

However, the idea that if Obama proposed the things we want, we would oppose them is pretty much a straw man argument. If someone advocates what we advocate, we'll be happy about it. It's basically a statement that we don't really advocate our own beliefs, which seems to be easier to argue than arguing against our beliefs as we state them. It's taking the easy way out with a straw man argument. The fact is that we have very different beliefs from Obama. I promise you that if Obama starts advocating full enforcement of the immigration laws, I won't start advocating amnesty.
RABEL222
 
  4  
Reply Mon 22 Feb, 2016 09:23 pm
@Real Music,
But wouldent you think that anyone who pays attention to politics would elect a state governor and house who is trying to help them rather vote for politicians who are screwing the middle class whenever they can. Yes gerrymandering is the problem but the worst problem is voters voting to screw them selves which is what I think is going on now with the presidential race and the Supreme Court.
parados
 
  4  
Reply Mon 22 Feb, 2016 09:37 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
http://www.senate.gov/pagelayout/reference/cloture_motions/clotureCounts.htm

GOP controlled the 105th - 109th and Dems invoked cloture.
Dems controlled the 109th - 113th and GOP filed for cloture.

4 years of Dems - 126 times invoking cloture
4 year of GOP - 352 times invoking cloture

revelette2
 
  3  
Reply Tue 23 Feb, 2016 09:27 am
Quote:
Whomever Obama Picks May Not Meet Scalia’s Definition Of Diversity

By Leah Libresco

Justice Antonin Scalia thought it shouldn’t make too much difference who sat on the bench. If Supreme Court justices hewed to his originalist philosophy, deciding cases was a matter of applying objective criteria — personal experience shouldn’t enter into it.

But in his dissent to Obergefell v. Hodges, which found that the Constitution guaranteed a right to marriage for same-sex couples, Scalia argued his colleagues had every reason to be concerned about diversity. A group of nine people who look so little like America couldn’t be qualified to do the democratic work of making law. And making law (the proper function of the legislative branch, not the judiciary) was exactly what he thought his colleagues were trying to do.

Scalia ticked off the ways he and his colleagues fell short of being representative of the country:


Take, for example, this Court, which consists of only nine men and women, all of them successful lawyers who studied at Harvard or Yale Law School. Four of the nine are natives of New York City. Eight of them grew up in east- and west-coast States. Only one hails from the vast expanse in-between. Not a single Southwesterner or even, to tell the truth, a genuine Westerner (California does not count). Not a single evangelical Christian (a group that comprises about one quarter of Americans), or even a Protestant of any denomination.

How likely is the next nominee or confirmed justice to address the problem of diversity and representation on the Supreme Court? We don’t know the full pool of candidates President Obama is considering, but we do know one especially likely source of nominees: circuit courts. Seven of the eight current justices were serving on circuit courts when nominated, and so are several of the potential Scalia replacements whose names are being floated.

After paging through all 158 of the active federal appellate judges’ official biographies, articles about their appointments, and, yes, their wedding announcements, I found that the circuit courts are more diverse than the Supreme Court. That is, they’re more diverse by two of Scalia’s metrics: where the judges grew up and where they went to school.

https://espnfivethirtyeight.files.wordpress.com/2016/02/libresco-circuitcourt-1.png?w=575&h=565

Just over a quarter of circuit court judges attended either Harvard or Yale Law School, offering a number of options for breaking those schools’ lock on the Supreme Court. But there may be a political factor that favors the nomination of those schools’ alumni. Linda Greenhouse, who has covered the Supreme Court for The New York Times and teaches at Yale Law School, said, “Presidents want sitting judges with impeccable credentials, and these two schools count.” In other words, presidents want their nominees to get through the often contentious nomination process, and it may be an easier sell if the nominee went to a brand-name law school.

Compared to educational diversity, geographic diversity is harder to find. More than half of circuit court judges (54 percent) hail from the East or West Coast.

Looking for judges who satisfy both categories narrows the pool considerably. Only 54 circuit court judges neither attended Harvard nor Yale Law School nor grew up on a coast. But not all of those people are plausible Obama nominees. When I ignore those who were not nominated to their current posts by other Democratic presidents, I’m left with a pool of 29 judges.

Even that includes some people Obama will probably never consider. Obama wouldn’t be likely to pick the two judges in their 80s who match my criteria, and if he’s looking for someone under 60, he only has 11 circuit court judges to pick from. As the pool gets shallower and shallower, you can see how difficult it can be to shake up the court’s demographics.

And I still haven’t touched Scalia’s last criterion: Finding any kind of Protestant to add to the exclusively Jewish and Catholic court. But data on the religion of sitting judges is difficult to come by. I called two of the 12 circuit courts, and both their court officers declined to comment on judges’ faith.

Even if Scalia intended his indictment of the homogenous court primarily to ridicule his colleagues, Jonathan Kastellec, an assistant professor at Princeton University, told me that changing the composition of the court really could change its decisions. In his own research, he’s found that not only do African-American judges differ in how they rule compared to judges of other races, but also that their presence makes a difference. Their colleagues vote differently when serving in a racially mixed group compared to an all-white one. Other researchers have observed similar effects on male judges who serve with women, rather than with all men.

If adding judges from a broader range of faiths, schools and hometowns did shift the court’s decisions, Scalia wouldn’t have seen it as a victory for diversity, though. He would have viewed it as damning evidence that his colleagues were deciding cases on something other than what the Constitution’s creators intended. If he could influence the nomination process at all, he’d probably repeat what he’d said before: If he couldn’t have someone who agreed with him, he just wanted someone smart.


source
0 Replies
 
Real Music
 
  5  
Reply Tue 23 Feb, 2016 09:32 am
@Brandon9000,
I am not making this claim without facts. The facts are that Obamacare was originally propose, supported, and embraced by conservative groups and republican legislators back in 1993 as an alternative to President Bill Clinton's health care reform. The facts are that the republican congress lead by the Tea Party voted to repeal Obamacare at least 40 times. The facts are that the Tea Party republicans have never shown any interest in improving the Affordable Care Act. (Only to repeal the whole law). The facts are that the Tea Party republicans have voted to repeal the (whole) Affordable Care Act Law/Obamacare at least 40 times.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Feb, 2016 10:24 am
wow, some really well researched debate. Im actually drawn to this to learn . KIU
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Feb, 2016 01:02 pm
@Real Music,
Actually, they tried to repeal it over 50 times.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 23 Feb, 2016 03:34 pm
@parados,
parados wrote:

http://www.senate.gov/pagelayout/reference/cloture_motions/clotureCounts.htm

GOP controlled the 105th - 109th and Dems invoked cloture.
Dems controlled the 109th - 113th and GOP filed for cloture.

4 years of Dems - 126 times invoking cloture
4 year of GOP - 352 times invoking cloture





This proves the Republicans have used the filibuster more than Democrats, in recent years, after a period of time during which the numbers were roughly equal.

So if use of the filibuster as the sole determination of "obstructionism" then you are correct.

Of course there are a number of considerations residing beneath these numbers.

First of all what do we mean by "obstructionism?" I've no doubt that you are quite happy to see a Democrat minority do all that it can to stymie Republican measures, and when they do, I'm equally certain you are not bemoaning their obstructionist ways. So it would be helpful to this discussion if you put aside some of your tribal instincts.

Democrat politicians are no more bound to support a Republican president's initiatives that their counterparts are to support a Dem one. "Obstructionism" then is to be expected by not only the voters but the system.

I doubt you will be honest in admitting this but your cries about "obstructionism" are not based on a desire to see government perform, but on the desire to see Democrats win.

Whether or not you are a paid or volunteer Democrat operative, it's perfectly clear that for you Democrat always means good and Republican always means bad. It's why there is little to be gained from debating you.

You're pretty good at it, but you're also transparent

An intellectually honest debater would have to admit that the entire ObamaCare debacle was a perfect example of one party doing everything it possibly could, including bending the rules to the breaking point to not only obtain a goal, but to utterly exclude the other party from the process.

Again, I'm sure you have no problem with this and a glib response but if the shoe was on the other foot, I'm also sure you would interpret it as a throwing down of the gauntlet in the face of your favored party.

After ObamaCare it became clear to Republicans that it was all out war. I'm sure you would have preferred that they engage in such a political war fastidiously, but not so Republican voters.



Brand X
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Feb, 2016 04:02 pm
Expected.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/24/us/politics/mitch-mcconnell-renews-call-to-block-an-obama-supreme-court-nomination.html?_r=0
0 Replies
 
Real Music
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Feb, 2016 04:17 pm
@RABEL222,
I agree with you on your assessment of our voting public. To answer your question on why people vote the way they do, when it goes against their own interest? That's the million dollar question. I, myself, tend to be more analytical regarding specific issues, laws, ideology, policies and party affiliation. I believe most people are not as analytical if at all. I believe there are many voters who respond more to political emotions rather than dissecting and understanding topics on an analytical level. Some people, if they hear something often enough and loud enough, they will start to believe what they are hearing.

Now as far gerrymandering is concern, there are gerrymandering cases working their way through our courts. The U.S. Supreme Court chose to leave intact a lower court ruling compelling the North Carolina legislature to draw up a new map to (rectify racial gerrymandering) in two of its districts. This was among the first actions SCOTUS has taken since the death of Justice Antonin Scalia. I believe there was also another SCOTUS case involving Alabama that also dealt with the gerrymandering issue.
0 Replies
 
jcboy
 
  2  
Reply Tue 23 Feb, 2016 04:30 pm
Senate Republicans have officially decided they won't even hold a committee hearing for any Supreme Court nominee from the President.

At this point, President Obama is rounding up all Republicans in the House and Senate. They will be executed by a single bullet to the head and dumped in a mass grave. And finally the nation can move forward.
*crosses fingers* Cool
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Feb, 2016 04:52 pm
@jcboy,
Is there a mini nuke that can destroy the whole racial bigot party?
0 Replies
 
Real Music
 
  2  
Reply Tue 23 Feb, 2016 05:20 pm
@jcboy,
That really baffles me why the republicans are choosing not even have a hearing. They don't even know who Obama is going to nominate. I don't see what is the harm of having a hearing and then vote to confirm or to not confirm. The republicans have the majority. They have the votes to defeat any nomination. Choosing to not even go through the process makes the republicans look bad especially when they have the votes to defeat any nomination. I personally think Obama should perform his constitutional duty and nominate a supreme court nominee. If the president does not perform his constitutional duty of nominating a supreme court justice he would be in dereliction of his presidential duties.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Tue 23 Feb, 2016 05:31 pm
@Real Music,
The problem is they don't care if they look bad. They're snubbing their noses at everybody - including republicans. That's what we get with the republicans in power; GRIDLOCK.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  5  
Reply Tue 23 Feb, 2016 05:49 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
You wanted evidence. You now have it and instead of accepting it as evidence you seem to be attempting to claim it isn't obstructionism.

Quote:
An intellectually honest debater would have to admit that the entire ObamaCare debacle was a perfect example of one party doing everything it possibly could, including bending the rules to the breaking point to not only obtain a goal, but to utterly exclude the other party from the process.

What is your evidence of this?

The GOP wasn't excluded from the process.

http://www.americasfairhealthcare.org/blog/entry/fact-check-how-the-health-care-law-was-made/

Quote:

Again, I'm sure you have no problem with this and a glib response but if the shoe was on the other foot, I'm also sure you would interpret it as a throwing down of the gauntlet in the face of your favored party.
I do have a problem with it if either party does it. They do not have to accept any and every candidate but they certainly should give them a hearing. Bork got a hearing and a vote. Clarence Thomas got a hearing and became a Supreme Court Justice. Harriet Miers got a hearing before she was withdrawn by pressure from the WH after GOP Senators questioned her qualifications. I don't have to like the nomination but they do deserve consideration.
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 23 Feb, 2016 07:32 pm
@Real Music,
Real Music wrote:
I am not making this claim without facts. The facts are that Obamacare was originally propose, supported, and embraced by conservative groups and republican legislators back in 1993 as an alternative to President Bill Clinton's health care reform. The facts are that the republican congress lead by the Tea Party voted to repeal Obamacare at least 40 times. The facts are that the Tea Party republicans have never shown any interest in improving the Affordable Care Act. (Only to repeal the whole law). The facts are that the Tea Party republicans have voted to repeal the (whole) Affordable Care Act Law/Obamacare at least 40 times.

I guess there's something about it that they don't like. They keep telling me what they don't like and I forget it immediately. The idea that we only dream up positions to be contrary is ludicrous.
DrewDad
 
  3  
Reply Wed 24 Feb, 2016 09:26 am
@Brandon9000,
Brandon9000 wrote:
The idea that we only dream up positions to be contrary is ludicrous.

The idea that so many Republicans don't do that is ludicrous. The Republicans have a well-earned reputation as "the party of 'no.'"

McGentrix
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 24 Feb, 2016 09:56 am
@DrewDad,
DrewDad wrote:

The idea that so many Republicans don't do that is ludicrous. The Republicans have a well-earned reputation as "the party of 'no.'"


I am sure if a Republican were president, they'd be the party of "You bet." Once Trump becomes President, we'll see who the party of no is, I mean unless the Dems in Congress continue having no backbone like they used to.
DrewDad
 
  4  
Reply Wed 24 Feb, 2016 10:33 am
@McGentrix,
McGentrix wrote:
I am sure if a Republican were president, they'd be the party of "You bet." Once Trump becomes President, we'll see who the party of no is, I mean unless the Dems in Congress continue having no backbone like they used to.

Yeah, it'll be, "You bet (you can't have that)!"
"You bet you can't have that equal pay!"
"You bet you can't have that Medicaid!"
"You bet you can't have that jobless benefit!"
"You bet you can't have that Planned Parenthood health screening!"
"You bet you can't have that immigration reform!"
"You bet you can't have that marriage!"
"You bet you can't have that protection against climate change!"
"You bet you can't have that VA hospital visit!"


https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-0/s480x480/12573839_918856594876516_3538015610134457118_n.jpg?oh=4d216ff1200ad47f7559d0a528f31b33&oe=5755E536
revelette2
 
  7  
Reply Wed 24 Feb, 2016 10:41 am
@McGentrix,
It is one thing to oppose a proposal because it goes against what you think is good for the country, it quite a different thing to have a strategy of just saying no to any proposal simply because of who proposed it and to top it all off, admit straight out to it.
 

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