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The Supreme Court vacancy, a minefield for Republicans

 
 
Brandon9000
 
  0  
Reply Tue 16 Feb, 2016 04:30 am
@parados,
parados wrote:

Quote:
It doesn't shoot anything out of the water. The Democrats would certainly do the same under reversed conditions

And you know this how?
The Democrats have not done this. They have never threatened to do this. History shows they did vote on a Supreme Court candidate in the last year of Reagan's term.

I see you trying to create a false equivalency to defend the indefensible. I would be upset of the Democrats tried to do this. It violates the basic principles of our government.

I know this because I have seen Democrats (as well as Republicans, of course) react with extreme partisanship many times. Also, what principle of our government does it violate to reject a nominee because you don't think his confirmation would be in the national interest?
Brandon9000
 
  0  
Reply Tue 16 Feb, 2016 04:33 am
@parados,
parados wrote:
But now you are arguing something completely different. Opposing a candidate because they are unqualified is NOT what the GOP proposed here. They have decided to oppose ALL candidates even those that would be extremely qualified.

That may be taking it too far, but there is no reason why we should permit a conservative on the Supreme Court to be replaced by a liberal. The appointee may be there for a long time. It seems unlikely that President Obama would nominate anyone who didn't have liberal tendencies. We might win the next presidential election, so it in our interest to stall until then, barring the unlikely event that President Obama nominates someone we view as not hugely worse than Scalia.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 16 Feb, 2016 05:15 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
This is a thread about the political battle that is already unfolding over the Supreme Court vacancy. The Republicans are already shooting themselves in the foot.

The Republicans are fine. If anyone complains, all they need to do is point out the way the Democrats blocked Mr. Bush's nominees out of spite in 2008.


maxdancona wrote:
4) If the Democrats win the next election, the Republicans could well end up with a Democratic President and a Democratic Senate. The Republicans would have already spent all of their political capital and would have no ability to block an even more liberal justice.

This might be one of the interesting cases where Democratic politicians will fight tooth and nail to win this battle while secretly hoping they lose. Most polls favor the Democratic nominee... and if the democratic lose the confirmation but win the election, they will be in a great position to confirm a very liberal justice.

The 2013 gun control debacle virtually guarantees that Mr. Trump is going to win the election (and win it so decisively that the Democrats will not be back in the White House for a good 20 years).
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 16 Feb, 2016 05:16 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
And it is also not in their interests to block Obama's qualified nominee. That's what's so great about this.
They are screwed either way!

I suspect that the Republicans will be happy to have Mr. Trump appoint Justice Scalia's replacement.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 16 Feb, 2016 05:17 am
@parados,
parados wrote:
Brandon9000 wrote:
It doesn't shoot anything out of the water. The Democrats would certainly do the same under reversed conditions.

And you know this how?
The Democrats have not done this.

In 2008 the Democrats blocked Mr. Bush's nominees for no other reason than sheer spite.
Setanta
 
  3  
Reply Tue 16 Feb, 2016 06:42 am
Mr. Bush did not nominate anyone for the Supreme Court in 2008.
0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  2  
Reply Tue 16 Feb, 2016 08:47 am
A 4-4 Supreme Court Could Be Good For Unions And Voting Rights Advocates

Justice Antonin Scalia’s black leather Supreme Court chair could be empty for months as the Senate argues about whether to replace him. His death on Saturday leaves behind a divided court and will have profound implications for this year’s docket of cases and possibly next year’s as well.

As the scholars Andrew Martin and Kevin Quinn wrote for FiveThirtyEight this morning, “It is very likely that many cases during the current term will end in 4-4 ties; when that happens, the decision of the lower court is affirmed without creating a precedent.”

We can’t know for sure which lower-court decisions would have been reversed on 5-to-4 votes at the Supreme Court this term. But we can guess, using two sources of Supreme Court prediction: the {Marshall}+ algorithm and the wisdom of the crowd competing in everyone’s favorite Supreme Court/fantasy sports mashup, FantasySCOTUS. Seven cases currently before the court were predicted by one or both of those sources to result in 5-to-4 reversal votes in which Scalia would’ve been in the majority. In other words, there are seven cases in which Scalia was predicted to be a pivotal voter but are now seen as likely to result in a tie. They include the following:

Contraception: Priests for Life v. Burwell

In yet another challenge to the Affordable Care Act, this case, which has been consolidated with a number of other similar cases, is focused on the law’s mandate that insurance provided by employers include contraception coverage. The petitioners want to see the religious exception to this mandate expanded — churches, for example, are already exempt from it — to include religiously affiliated schools, hospitals, nonprofits, charities and so on. FantasySCOTUS had seen this as a 5-to-4 strike against an already battle-weary Obamacare. But without Scalia’s predicted vote, a ruling further limiting the health care law now seems unlikely.

Voting rights: Wittman v. Personhuballah

This case originated from a redistricting ruling in Virginia. A lower court held that race played too strong a role when the state legislature redrew the boundaries of a Virginia congressional district. The court said the district, Virginia’s Third, was gerrymandered because the legislature packed black voters into its boundaries in a way that diluted their vote in other districts. Republicans appealed that ruling to the high court. Scalia was seen by FantasySCOTUS as very likely to vote to overturn the lower court’s ruling.

Unions: Friedrichs v. California Teachers Association

This is a case involving the ability of public-sector unions to collect the equivalent of dues from workers who choose not to join the union. The unions say that if they lose that ability, they will not be able to effectively bargain with government employers, but the justices — and particularly Scalia — seemed unsympathetic to that position during oral arguments in January. Scalia’s death may allow these unions, with a combined membership of more than 9 million public workers, to avoid a loss, at least for the time being.

The four other cases are less sexy but are also seen as likely to end up tied: Bernard v. Minnesota concerns whether it’s a crime for someone to refuse to take an alcohol test when stopped under suspicion of driving while intoxicated; Spokeo v. Robins concerns who has a right to sue in civil cases; Franchise Tax Board of California v. Hyatt concerns whether state agencies are immune from being sued in other state courts; and Bank Markazi v. Peterson concerns whether certain federal statutes violate the separation of powers. All were seen as 5-4 reversals, with Scalia in the majority.

There are also some big cases not on the list above. One is Fisher v. University of Texas, a major affirmative action case involving the admissions policies of a large state university. Justice Elena Kagan recused herself from the case because she worked on a related brief when she was solicitor general, so now only seven justices are left to decide it. If the predictions are correct, that case will see an unusual 4-3 reversal, resulting in a major defeat for supporters of affirmative action. A 4-3 reversal hasn’t happened since 1984, according to the Supreme Court Database.

Other major cases not making this list are Whole Woman’s Health v. Hellerstedt, a challenge to Texas’s restrictions on abortion providers, and Evenwel v. Abbott, about whether states violate the “one person, one vote” principle if they count nonvoters (such as undocumented immigrants or prisoners) when drawing legislative districts. The predictors don’t see these cases as particularly close at the moment — the crowd foresees a 9-0 affirmation in Evenwel, allowing states to continue counting nonvoters. But Whole Woman’s Health won’t be argued until March, and the wisdom of the crowd can improve dramatically after the court hears oral arguments. In any case, it’s a safe bet that Scalia would’ve voted against a challenge to abortion restrictions. (So far this term, the crowd has been 84 percent accurate in predicting the justices’ votes, and the algorithm 71 percent. One member of the team behind these predictors put together his own list of cases likely to be affected by Scalia’s death.)

And what, precisely, happens to the cases that result in 4-4 ties? It’s true that, as Martin and Quinn wrote, a tie means the lower-court decision is upheld without creating a national precedent. But in previous terms with a missing member, the court has sometimes chosen to reconsider cases with tie votes after a vacancy is filled. It could be a long time before there is clarity on these cases, and on the court’s future direction.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  2  
Reply Tue 16 Feb, 2016 08:49 am
@Brandon9000,
Quote:

I know this because I have seen Democrats (as well as Republicans, of course) react with extreme partisanship many times. Also, what principle of our government does it violate to reject a nominee because you don't think his confirmation would be in the national interest?

There is a difference between examining a candidate and finding them wanting compared to rejecting every candidate outright without even knowing who they are. As one wag wrote, the GOP would reject Scalia if he rose from the dead and Obama nominated him.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  3  
Reply Tue 16 Feb, 2016 08:51 am
@Brandon9000,
Quote:

That may be taking it too far, but there is no reason why we should permit a conservative on the Supreme Court to be replaced by a liberal. The appointee may be there for a long time.

Interesting. So we should go back in time and correct all those instances where a USSC judge leaning one way is replaced by one leaning the other?
You don't seem to understand the basic process. The President gets to nominate whoever he wants. There is no obligation to replace a judge with someone similar.
parados
 
  4  
Reply Tue 16 Feb, 2016 08:52 am
@oralloy,
Who did Bush nominate in 2008? Did you forget to take your medications today because you seem to be even more out of touch with reality than usual.
parados
 
  4  
Reply Tue 16 Feb, 2016 08:54 am
@Brandon9000,
Brandon9000 wrote:

parados wrote:
But now you are arguing something completely different. Opposing a candidate because they are unqualified is NOT what the GOP proposed here. They have decided to oppose ALL candidates even those that would be extremely qualified.

That may be taking it too far,


You just argued that isn't taking it too far in your previous post. The GOP has said Obama shouldn't nominate anyone. That is essentially saying they will block all candidates since that is the only way to enforce their position.


farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Feb, 2016 10:11 am
@parados,
The court can decline to hear the cases on the docket. Would that "kill" the present appeals or could they be brought up again?
parados
 
  2  
Reply Tue 16 Feb, 2016 10:50 am
@farmerman,
I have no idea what would happen if they decline current cases. Would the appeal be dead or subject to be presented again with a full court? I know it takes 4 judges to agree in order for them to take a case.

I did hear they could ask to re-argue undecided cases if a new judge is appointed before the case is ruled on.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 16 Feb, 2016 11:57 am
@parados,
parados wrote:
Who did Bush nominate in 2008?

I recall John Bolton. There were a lot more people whose names I don't remember off hand.


parados wrote:
Did you forget to take your medications today because you seem to be even more out of touch with reality than usual.

As always, my facts are all in order.
parados
 
  3  
Reply Tue 16 Feb, 2016 12:27 pm
@oralloy,
You recall Bolton being nominated for what in 2008? Bush certainly didn't nominate him for any post let alone a Supreme Court judgeship.

Bolton's wiki page doesn't list any 2008 nominations. Maybe Bush nominated him for worst contributor to FOX News in 2008. Is that what you were thinking of?
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 16 Feb, 2016 12:42 pm
@parados,
parados wrote:
You recall Bolton being nominated for what in 2008?

UN ambassador.
parados
 
  4  
Reply Tue 16 Feb, 2016 05:19 pm
@oralloy,
Considering Bolton was made US Ambassador in a recess appointment in 2005 and resigned the office in 2006, how do you get him being nominated in 2008?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_R._Bolton

So much for being sure of your facts on this one, oralloy.
Brandon9000
 
  0  
Reply Wed 17 Feb, 2016 05:23 am
@parados,
parados wrote:

Brandon9000 wrote:

parados wrote:
But now you are arguing something completely different. Opposing a candidate because they are unqualified is NOT what the GOP proposed here. They have decided to oppose ALL candidates even those that would be extremely qualified.

That may be taking it too far,


You just argued that isn't taking it too far in your previous post. The GOP has said Obama shouldn't nominate anyone. That is essentially saying they will block all candidates since that is the only way to enforce their position.




The president certainly has the right to nominate candidates, but the senate has the right to reject them.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 17 Feb, 2016 05:56 am
@parados,
parados wrote:
Considering Bolton was made US Ambassador in a recess appointment in 2005 and resigned the office in 2006, how do you get him being nominated in 2008?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_R._Bolton

So much for being sure of your facts on this one, oralloy.

So they blocked him from 2006 through 2008 (even earlier if you consider the refusal to confirm that led to the recess appointment). Doesn't change the fact that they were blocking a ton of Mr. Bush's appointees.
revelette2
 
  2  
Reply Wed 17 Feb, 2016 09:39 am
@Brandon9000,
Quote:
The president certainly has the right to nominate candidates, but the senate has the right to reject them
.

That point has never been in dispute. What has been in dispute is announcing they reject any nominee out of hand and suggesting Obama should even try to do it. Consider the following graph.

http://politicsthatwork.com/img/x130.gif.pagespeed.ic.GHVsg00Dq5.png

Quote:
Discussion: Within hours of the passing of Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia, Republican Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell vowed to block any replacement nominated by President Barack Obama. Holding a Supreme Court seat vacant for that long would be an unprecedented move since the Civil War.

If it takes the average time for the next president to nominate a Justice and to have them confirmed, the Supreme Court would be one Justice short for 415 days. It has been argued in the past, controversially, that the Senate should refuse to confirm Supreme Court nominees during the final six months of a lame duck presidency, but holding out for eleven months on the basis of the party of the President, rather than the particular nominees, would be a first in U.S. history.

Only one vacancy since the Civil War has lasted longer than 300 days, That was the 391 days between Justice Abe Fortas's resignation in 1969 and Justice Harry Blackmun's placement on the court in 1970. That extraordinarily long vacancy was the result of two factors. First, it took President Nixon three months to make a nomination because his first choice declined the offer. Second, the first two nominees were advocates of racial segregation and were rejected by the Senate.


source
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