43
   

Hundreds of Armed Right-Wing Militia Members Take Over Federal Building

 
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Wed 6 Jan, 2016 02:02 am
@blatham,
blatham wrote:

And then there's Ted...

Quote:
“At some point, we have to deal with the fact that there are at least two candidates who could utterly destroy the Republican bench for a generation if they became the nominee,” said Josh Holmes, a former chief of staff to Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell. “We’d be hard-pressed to elect a Republican dogcatcher north of the Mason-Dixon or west of the Mississippi.”
“Trump and Cruz are worrisome to most Republican candidates for governor, senator and Congress,” said Curt Anderson, a longtime GOP strategist and former Republican National Committee political director. “Some will say they are not worried, but they are.”
http://politi.co/1UsPuM1

Once again, you might feel some sympathy for the relatively saner components of the GOP if and only if they took some ******* responsibility for fostering this beast that's now lunging for their throats.


You seem to be suggesting Josh Holmes and Curt Anderson are "saner" because they criticize Trump and Cruz.

They may be, but they are also long-time, solid members of the GOP establishment and friends and associates of Mitch McConnell (Holmes, as noted, was his Chief-of-Staff).

Trump is, obviously, a pariah to the GOP Establishment, but Cruz is not seen by them in any kinder light. McConnell despises Cruz, not least of all for calling him a liar on the Senate floor.

Their antipathy for Trump and Cruz may not have anything to do with their sanity.
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  -1  
Wed 6 Jan, 2016 02:28 am
This Will article is quite dated now, but it came to mind when Barry Goldwater was mentioned. I found it humorous, but I'm sure the commies would be outraged by it.


Quote:
By George F. Will
Thursday, August 25, 2005

Sad yet riveting, like a wreck by the side of the road, Cindy Sheehan, a plaything of her own sincerities and other people's opportunisms, has already been largely erased from the national memory by new waves of media fickleness in the service of the public's summer ennui. But before she becomes fully relegated to the role of opening act for more durable luminaries at antiwar rallies, prudent Democrats -- those political snail darters, the emblematic endangered species of American politics -- should consider the possibility that, although she was a burr under the president's saddle for several weeks, she is symptomatic of something that in 2008 could cause the Democratic Party a sixth loss in eight presidential elections. That something is a shrillness unlike anything heard in living memory from a major tendency within a major party.

Many warmhearted and mildly attentive Americans say the president should have invited Sheehan to his kitchen table in Crawford for a cup of coffee and a serving of that low-calorie staple of democratic sentimentality -- "dialogue." Well.

Since her first meeting with the president, she has called him a "lying bastard," "filth spewer," "evil maniac," "fuehrer" and the world's "biggest terrorist" who is committing "blatant genocide" and "waging a nuclear war" in Iraq. Even leaving aside her not entirely persuasive contention that someone else concocted the obviously anti-Israel and inferentially anti-Semitic elements of one of her recent e-mails -- elements of a sort nowadays often found woven into ferocious left-wing rhetoric -- it is difficult to imagine how the dialogue would get going.

He: "Cream and sugar?"

She: "Yes, please, filth-spewer."

Do Democrats really want to embrace her variation of the Michael Moore and "Fahrenheit 9/11" school of political discourse? Evidently, yes, judging by the attendance of 12 Democratic senators at that movie's D.C. premiere in June 2004, and by the lionizing of Moore at the Democratic Convention -- the ovation, the seating of him with Jimmy Carter.

If liberals think that such flirtations with fanaticism had nothing to do with their 2004 defeat, they probably have nothing to learn from what conservatives did four decades earlier. But for the record:

In the 1960s, just as conservatism was beginning to grow from a fringe tendency into what it has become -- the nation's most potent persuasion -- it was threatened by a boarding party of people not much, if any, loonier than Sheehan. The John Birch Society, whose catechism included the novel tenet that Dwight Eisenhower was an agent of the Kremlin, was not numerous -- its membership probably never numbered more than 100,000 -- but its power to taint all of conservatism was huge, particularly given the media's eagerness to abet the tainting. Responsible conservatives, especially William F. Buckley Jr. and his National Review, repelled the boarders, driving them into the dark cave where today they ferociously guard the secret of their size from a nation no longer curious about it.

MoveOn.org, which claims 3.3 million members and is becoming a tone-setting tail that wags the Democratic Party dog -- a dog that is mostly such tails -- adopted Sheehan during her Crawford demonstration, organizing 1,627 vigils around the country to express solidarity with her. But the Democratic Party, whose democratically elected chairman is Howard ("I Hate the Republicans and Everything They Stand For") Dean, is not ripe for lessons in temperate rhetoric, which may be why the Republican Party has far fewer worries than it deserves.

It is showing signs of becoming an exhausted volcano. Regarding Iraq, it is mistaking truculent asperity and tiresome repetition for Churchillian wartime eloquence. Regarding domestic policy, intellectual anemia has given rise to behavioral patterns not easily distinguished from corruption, as with the energy and transportation bills. Yet the Democratic Party, which by now can hardly remember the far-distant past when it was a volcano not of molten rhetoric but of serious thought, seems preoccupied with the chafing around its neck. The chafing is caused by the leashes firmly gripped and impudently jerked by various groups such as MoveOn.org that insist the party adopt hysteria as a policy by treating the Supreme Court nomination of John G. Roberts Jr. as a dire threat to liberty.

If Hillary Clinton has half the political sense her enthusiasts ascribe to her, she must be deeply anxious lest all her ongoing attempts to adopt moderation as her brand will be nullified by the increasing inclination of her party's base to succumb to siren songs sung by the likes of Sheehan. But, then, a rapidly growing portion of the base is not just succumbing to those songs, it is singing them.
Olivier5
 
  2  
Wed 6 Jan, 2016 04:55 am
@layman,
Michael Moore is not an extremist.. He's just saying the truth, most of the time.
blatham
 
  3  
Wed 6 Jan, 2016 06:00 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
First of all - I like you. Your posts are often bright and carefully argued. You are one of the most worthwhile conservative voices to engage that I've bumped into on discussion boards anywhere. But as a matter or both courtesy and integrity, you ought to have acknowledged that your presumptions regarding what media sources I attend to were in error. When I said that I visit NRO and WS every morning (rare exceptions), that was truthful. And I've been doing it for close to a decade. Less frequently, but at least twice a week, I also visit The American Conservative (Dreher and Larison are worthwhile for anyone to read). I read Byron York whenever I bump into his pieces. Likewise, Robert Costa (previously reporter and senior editor at NRO). And David Frum, as I've noted. And there are others. Though no longer, I monitored Limbaugh regularly. On the last board where I was active (some six years, daily engagement) I quoted and linked to NRO and WS far more often than any conservative posting there. Conservatism in America is my main area of study (along with media and propaganda). There are, roughly speaking, two categories of conservative voices I attend to. Those names above are serious-minded conservatives who, though biased (like me), try to get things right. The second category are propagandists. Bill Kristol, Rich Lowry, John Fund, Fred Barnes, Jonah Goldberg and Limbaugh are a few of the individuals who don't care if they get it right - the game they play is something else.

I don't make these remarks because you hurt my feelings. Nor because I'm bragging. Nor to suggest I'm without biases. We all have biases and blind-spots. But how can this endeavor we are engaged in have any value if we don't try to do it carefully and as honestly as possible? The value I see in boards like this one is the potential to learn. None of us is going to alter the result of any election anywhere.

Now, I'll get to your comment in a separate post.
blatham
 
  2  
Wed 6 Jan, 2016 06:29 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
And you don't recognize that Democrats trade on fear and dire predictions of the future?

Sure, at times. The relevant questions regard rationality of the proposition forwarded and the motivations behind such instances. Your local weather station will, at times, make dire predictions as will all our Disaster Preparedness services.
Quote:
The "shift" referred to by Rucker and Costa is most evident in Trump because it exists only in Trump. To the extent that past primaries actually did focus on an ideological litmus test, they still do for those candidates not named Donald Trump.

That is quite evidently false. Trump did not create this state of mind in his followers. Nor has Cruz created such in the minds of his followers. Nor Huckabee. Nor Sarah Palin. They merely harvest from what is already out there (even if each helps to make it more acute). There is presently not a single GOP presidential candidate who has refrained from a rhetoric of
imminent doom to America.
“Nobody cares,” Republican strategist Alex Castellanos said. “Political records and promised plans have turned to dust in front of us. . . . That’s not what this election seems to be about for Republicans. It’s about rescuing the country before it goes over the cliff.”
Quote:
[The other candidates] all fighting over who is more against amnesty, who would be tougher on ISIS etc etc.

But these are two of Trump's main targets! And when he talks about them (in his manner) his polls of primary voters rise, routinely. More importantly, look at what each candidate says will be the probable or certain dire consequences to America's continued existence as a democracy or even as a nation, if citizens choose someone other than him as leader - particularly any Dem because of those two issues.

*Sorry, just hit 'post' when meaning to hit 'edit'. Will continue in a following post
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  -2  
Wed 6 Jan, 2016 06:46 am
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

Michael Moore is not an extremist.. He's just saying the truth, most of the time.


Well, not according to your fellow traveler, Christopher Hitchins, eh, Ollie?:

Quote:
With Michael Moore's Fahrenheit 9/11, however, an entirely new note has been struck....To describe this film as dishonest and demagogic would almost be to promote those terms to the level of respectability. To describe this film as a piece of crap would be to run the risk of a discourse that would never again rise above the excremental. To describe it as an exercise in facile crowd-pleasing would be too obvious. Fahrenheit 9/11 is a sinister exercise in moral frivolity, crudely disguised as an exercise in seriousness. It is also a spectacle of abject political cowardice masking itself as a demonstration of "dissenting" bravery.

I never quite know whether Moore is as ignorant as he looks, or even if that would be humanly possible....I think we can agree that the film is so flat-out phony that "fact-checking" is beside the point..A film that bases itself on a big lie and a big misrepresentation can only sustain itself by a dizzying succession of smaller falsehoods, beefed up by wilder and (if possible) yet more-contradictory claims...Moore is a silly and shady man who does not recognize courage of any sort even when he sees it because he cannot summon it in himself. To him, easy applause, in front of credulous audiences, is everything. (Christopher Hitchins)


http://williamwebbdotorg.blogspot.com/2004/06/unfairenheit-911-lies-of-michael-moore.html
edgarblythe
 
  3  
Wed 6 Jan, 2016 06:51 am
I am a fan of Michael Moore.
Olivier5
 
  2  
Wed 6 Jan, 2016 06:56 am
@layman,
Funny how there's not onle single fact in that op-ed. It's pure verbal abuse.

Y
ou want to invite this guy to A2K?
parados
 
  4  
Wed 6 Jan, 2016 06:57 am
@McGentrix,
Quote:
No, all three are entertainers. You just don't like 2 of them.

Hannity is on the Fox NEWS channel. John Stewart was on COMEDY Central.
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  -2  
Wed 6 Jan, 2016 06:58 am
@edgarblythe,
edgarblythe wrote:

I am a fan of Michael Moore.


Well, Ed, to you I guess Hitchins might say (as he did):

Quote:
Some people soothingly say that one should relax about all this. It's only a movie. No biggie. It's kick-ass entertainment. It might even help get out "the youth vote."

But if you leave out absolutely everything that might give your "narrative" a problem and throw in any old rubbish that might support it, and you don't even care that one bit of that rubbish flatly contradicts the next bit, and you give no chance to those who might differ, then you have betrayed your craft. If you flatter and fawn upon your potential audience, I might add, you are patronizing them and insulting them.

By all means go and see this terrible film, and take your friends, and if the fools in the audience strike up one cry, in favor of surrender or defeat, feel free to join in the conversation.



layman
 
  -1  
Wed 6 Jan, 2016 06:59 am
@Olivier5,
Quote:
Funny how there's not onle single fact in that op-ed. It's pure verbal abuse.


Did you read it, Ollie, or just the excerpts I pasted which I thought were the most fun?
layman
 
  0  
Wed 6 Jan, 2016 07:06 am
Quote:
“In October, after more than 20 years at the left's house organ, the Nation, Hitchens announced his decision to leave the magazine. "

"I have come to realize that the magazine itself takes a side ... the amoral side ... in this argument and is becoming the voice and echo chamber of those who truly believe that John Ashcroft is a greater menace than Osama bin Laden," he said
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  0  
Wed 6 Jan, 2016 07:19 am
@edgarblythe,
edgarblythe wrote:

I am a fan of Michael Moore.


Well, I guess George Will had this much right, at least, eh?

Quote:
Do Democrats really want to embrace her variation of the Michael Moore and "Fahrenheit 9/11" school of political discourse? Evidently, yes, judging by the attendance of 12 Democratic senators at that movie's D.C. premiere in June 2004, and by the lionizing of Moore at the Democratic Convention -- the ovation, the seating of him with Jimmy Carter
.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  2  
Wed 6 Jan, 2016 07:19 am
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

You want to invite this guy to A2K?

Oh sorry, didn't see it was by late Christopher Hitchens, the oh-so-smart leftist who supported Bush's war of choice in Iraq. Hahahaha... Could you find a more ridiculous punk to quote?
layman
 
  0  
Wed 6 Jan, 2016 07:27 am
@Olivier5,
Quote:
Oh sorry, didn't see it was by late Christopher Hitchens, the oh-so-smart leftist who supported Bush's war of choice in Iraq. Hahahaha... Could you find a more ridiculous punk to quote?


Not a very nice thing to say about a fellow-travelling devout Trotskyite commie, is it, Ollie? Aint there no honor among thieves no more? Or maybe that's just your way of making a little joke, eh?

Quote:
One of the many problems with the American left, and indeed of the American left, has been its image and self-image as something rather too solemn, mirthless, herbivorous, dull, monochrome, righteous, and boring. How many times, in my old days at The Nation magazine, did I hear wistful and semienvious ruminations? Where was the radical Firing Line show? Who will be our Rush Limbaugh? I used privately to hope that the emphasis, if the comrades ever got around to it, would be on the first of those and not the second. But the meetings themselves were so mind-numbing and lugubrious that I thought the danger of success on either front was infinitely slight.

Nonetheless, it seems that an answer to this long-felt need is finally beginning to emerge. I exempt Al Franken's unintentionally funny Air America network, to which I gave a couple of interviews in its early days. There, one could hear the reassuring noise of collapsing scenery and tripped-over wires and be reminded once again that correct politics and smooth media presentation are not even distant cousins. With Michael Moore's Fahrenheit 9/11, however, an entirely new note has been struck. Here we glimpse a possible fusion between the turgid routines of MoveOn.org and the filmic standards, if not exactly the filmic skills, of Sergei Eisenstein or Leni Riefenstahl.
boomerang
 
  2  
Wed 6 Jan, 2016 07:28 am
Trevor Noah has an interesting and hilarious take on this: http://www.cc.com/video-clips/8ru8dm/the-daily-show-with-trevor-noah-an-armed-standoff-in-oregon
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  3  
Wed 6 Jan, 2016 07:29 am
@layman,
I did, and he's got absolutely nothing substantial. He tries to tease contradictions out of Farenheit 911 but comes out empty handed.

He must have been trashed by Moore publicly, to hate him so much. Maybe he should have kept to his anti-catholic routine, pedling **** on Mother Theresa, this sort of **** was at his level: the level of total irrelevance.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  2  
Wed 6 Jan, 2016 07:40 am
@layman,
While i am a proud socialist (aka a social democrat à la Bernie Sanders), I have always been anti-communist, anti-leninist, anti-trotskist, antistalinian, you name it. Those guys were no better than the Nazis.

As for Hichens, he was a hater and an idiot. Try to choose your cinema critiques better next time. Even better: watch the movie!
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Wed 6 Jan, 2016 07:44 am
@Olivier5,
Qua definitione, social democrats can't be communists (of any couleur) here ... and elsewhere.
Setanta
 
  2  
Wed 6 Jan, 2016 07:54 am
I used to be a social Democrat, but i've grown more misanthropic with age.
 

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