Hundreds of Armed Right-Wing Militia Members Take Over Federal Building

@Finn dAbuzz,

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

It is extremely tempting to believe that people who generally adhere to conservative principles are fundamentally better people than those who hold as firmly to progressive precepts, but being correct about the best way for society to be organized and governed certainly doesn’t, in and of itself, invest anyone with virtue.

My contribution in this discussion probably doesn't count for much, but here goes: Like many people, I've had a great interest in politics for decades; and I've had the opportunity to get to know people on both sides. I've noticed there are incredibly decent individuals on both sides. There are also jerks and vicious, mean-spirited people on both sides.

The fact of the matter is that decent people are never going to be restricted to a single party. Also, what's interesting is that a lot of decent people may support political positions that seem to be cruel to others. Sometimes there's a disconnect between an individual's personal decency and what he supports.

0 Replies

@edgarblythe,

edgarblythe wrote:

If it were Muslims it would be like 911 all over again.

And if they were black, native or hispanic, they'd be dead already.

1 Reply

@JPB,

JPB wrote:

Quote:
He said the occupying group has made "no direct demands," but the participants have stated that they will leave if the federal government gives up control of the nearby Malheur National Forest.

and maybe they think the land would go to the ranchers?

since most of it was a land grant to begin with, it would be better to return it to the appropriate native community

hmmm - would the families that sold their ranches to the government 100 years ago be asked to repay the funds -- at today's rates? (if they'd even want them)

1 Reply

They really just need to cut the electricity and water off and send those boys home with their tails between their legs.

3 Replies

@boomerang,

They've fallen off the news radar in Canada already.

0 Replies

@boomerang,

All they need to do is to leave them alone. After a few months, they're going to get tired of standing alone in a empty field - accomplishing nothing.

0 Replies

@George,

I have picked up a leaf. Give me the tree, and I will give you the leaf back....

1 Reply

@DrewDad,

Sounds like a Zen koan.

0 Replies

@boomerang,

boomerang wrote:

They really just need to cut the electricity and water off and send those
boys home with their tails between their legs.

I don't want them to go home. I want them to be arrested and tried.
Having the readiness, will and ability to shed blood should not make you
immune to prosecution if you've broken the law.

3 Replies

@Setanta,

Setanta wrote:

Well, you did leave out the part where the police dropped a home-made bomb on the house in Philly, from a helicopter, igniting a fire which not only killed men and women and children, but also burned down a block of row houses. But hey, it was just a black neighborhood, right? The point about bringing up Philly is the overreaction of the police when the bad guys were black.

Members of MOVE immediately disputed the claim that they killed the police officer in 1978, saying he had been shot in the back of the head and was facing the house at the time.

Well you must be right since I only made these specific comments:

Quote:

Now, what happened (In Philadelphia in 1985) was an excellent example of governmental use and abuse of excessive power by a woefully trained and led police force wherein a criminal lack of regard for the safety and lives of innocents was horribly evident.

Quote:

The author makes a somewhat passing reference to a 1978 incident that predated the 1985 stand-off and eventual bombing.

Quote:

I've no intent or desire to defend the Philadelphia PD for the catastrophic mayhem that followed the first gun shots

Quote:

In fact, it was Goode who made the decision to drop the bomb on the building

0 Replies

@Olivier5,

You, apparently, are reading only the posts that advance your prejudice.

Did news of the Waco Texas and Ruby Ridge Idaho incidents make it to France?

0 Replies

@George,

I agree with you, but other than standing on government property - with guns, they haven't really broken any laws that I can see. If they shoot first, that would be extremely stupid, because they'll never win a war with the police or state/federal government. Their demonstration may make them feel macho, but that's about it.

0 Replies

@George,

George wrote:

I don't want them to go home. I want them to be arrested and tried.
Having the readiness, will and ability to shed blood should not make you
immune to prosecution if you've broken the law.

Having the readiness, will and ability to shed blood is not illegal.

There are millions of American who own guns and if their house is broken into, I presume that many of them have the readiness, will and ability to shed blood.

You can't criminalize a state of mind.

Now, they may have broken one or more laws as regards trespassing, and maybe some over zealous ADA can fashion a charge of threatening law enforcement out of some of their grandiose pronouncements, but unless the guns they are carrying are in some way illegal, I don't know what charges might actually stick.

3 Replies

@Finn dAbuzz,

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

There are millions of American who own guns and if their house is broken into, I presume that many of them have the readiness, will and ability to shed blood.

You can't criminalize a state of mind.

And that's exactly what puzzles me: if the owner of the house uses weapons ...

0 Replies

@George,

I'm surprised more people aren't calling on Bundy Sr. to pay up

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/01/05/462022130/as-oregon-situation-unfolds-heres-a-quick-update-on-cliven-bundy

cowboy privilege must be an extra-special type of white privilege

0 Replies

@Finn dAbuzz,

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

There are millions of American who own guns and if their house is broken into, I presume that many of them have the readiness, will and ability to shed blood.

Bundy's bunch are the ones breaking in.

Your analogy seems to be support for the gov't taking them out.

1 Reply

@Finn dAbuzz,

I'm wondering about the extent of their "occupation" of the property. Are they preventing the public from accessing public property? If you and I decide to go for a walk through those woods would we be barred from doing so by this group?

1 Reply

@JPB,

JPB wrote:

I'm wondering about the extent of their "occupation" of the property. Are they preventing the public from accessing public property? I you and I decide to go for a walk through those woods would be be barred from doing so by this group?

Good question which I can't answer, but if they are doing anything like that, I would think they are breaking the law. I'm not familiar enough with this group or any of the individuals to have a solid opinion, but there are two things that wouldn't surprise me about them in this regards:

1) They profess to be men of the People and so I find it highly unlikely that they would do anything to menace ordinary citizens such as you and I.

2) They appear to be somewhat paranoid and they would probably find anyone who entered the area to be suspicious. We've all seen enough movies where the Feds assume a phony identity to get close enough to the bad guys to get the drop on them. I'm sure these guys have seen these movies too. I certainly hope they wouldn't shoot first and ask questions later but you never know with guys hopped up on adrenaline and righteousness. This is why this is a reckless and foolhardy stunt, the potential for a disaster simply due to a mistake is too great.

Even if they are preventing normal use of the station and thereby breaking the law it is no reason for law enforcement to make a move on them. Do they pose a threat to public safety? Given their rhetoric and arms, they pose some threat, but considering where they are, it's minimal, and whatever threat they pose is likely to only be triggered by a confrontation with police.

I don't think they should be let off the hook if they have broken any laws, but that can all be dealt with when the situation settles down and they are all tired and want to go home and see their families. In the meantime, I don't think they can be doing any harm that requires a confrontation.

What I also don't want to see is them getting treated any more harshly than any other group of protesters that occupy a public building. No less, of course, but certainly no more.

0 Replies

@ehBeth,

someone else/s had the same thought

https://scontent-yyz1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/1927647_1256982104328434_7164663535585232184_n.jpg?oh=3c1993ab0616455e7f8cd5cb2d67e558&oe=5715E20F

0 Replies

They broke into a building they did not own. It was closed for the holidays.
The employees who should be working there now cannot. They have a
lookout in the tower and patrol the perimeter on ATVs. They have
blockaded the road in with trucks. I call that trespass at the very least.

They are not being treated more harshly than other protesters. They are
not being treated with at all. If they were unarmed, they'd have been
arrested by now. They are flouting the law and getting away with it.

2 Replies

Hundreds of Armed Right-Wing Militia Members Take Over Federal Building

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know