God's Forgiveness

...well, if I'm wrong, I have nothing to lose. If you're wrong...

0 Replies

duce wrote:

Frank:

Your so Funny.

Have you NEVER had an experience, you you may have thought you felt God's presence, even on the back 9?

You would be surprised at how religious golfers are.

As a lot...they often call on the deity...and Jesus Christ himself is called on as often in a typical round...as in a typical Christian church service.

0 Replies

snood wrote:

...well, if I'm wrong, I have nothing to lose. If you're wrong...

Well...unless the god is a scumbag...neither of us has anything to lose.

0 Replies

FRANK:

You avoid personal questions very well. I will try again. Have you never had a personal experience with which you felt God/Diety was involved.
(JMO I don't think God cares about your Golf Game or who wins a ball game)

What about when you got married, was it not more than a civil ceremony?

Just nosy. :wink:

0 Replies

duce wrote:

FRANK:

You avoid personal questions very well.

There is at least the possibility that I have answered more personal questions in this forum than anyone else. I certainly have answered MANY...and will continue to do so.

And I have the balls to answer them using my real name...rather than some alias.

I thought your question was rhetorical...especially considering the form in which it was addressed.

Quote:

I will try again.

Good. It gives you practice.

Quote:

Have you never had a personal experience with which you felt God/Diety was involved.
(JMO I don't think God cares about your Golf Game or who wins a ball game)

Until age 22 - 23...I was a daily communicant in the Catholic Church...and I was fairly certain "GOD had called me" to a religious vocation. I actually told my family that I was going to enter the priesthood.

Luckily...both for me and the Church...my attitude changed.

During the time that I was religious (i.e. up to age 22 - 23) I often thought that I was having personal experiences with some GOD.

Hey...the priests told me I would have them; the nuns told me I would have them; relatives told me I would have them. So I had them.

My guess is that it was delusion.

Obviously I cannot prove that (to myself or to you)...but it is my guess. And I feel very comfortable that it is a correct guess.

What do you guess about any "personal experiences with GOD" that you have had, Duce (that is what you call yourself, right)?

Are you certain that any such experiences you may have had were NOT simply delusions?

Quote:

What about when you got married, was it not more than a civil ceremony?

Big church wedding. No personal experience with any gods at the wedding.

Quote:

Just nosy. :wink:

No problem. Honestly. I'm enjoying this. Twisted Evil

0 Replies

0 Replies

Thanks, for answering. I take no offense at your remarks nor meant you any.

"Luckily...both for me and the Church...my attitude changed. "

I think both lost out. I bet you would have made a good religious leader and a counselor. You do promote thought and I think that's your goal.

I guess I am a product of BF Skinnerism. I believe (truly) in God and Jesus. You know I'm from ALabama (The Bible Belt) Do I have questions, sure. But for me it all hinged on the Resurrection. If I believe Jesus, rose from the dead (and I do), then I guess the rest seemed moot by comparison. Once I came to believe that Jesus rose from the dead, a claim I cannot find matched by any other religious persuasion, I guess I became one of those hard core fanatics. You know I'm praying for your return to the fold. :wink: If I'm deluded, may I remain forever drunk in my delusion, for there I have found no harm, made many personal improvements and have found a contentment and even occasional joy
that I did not have before. I am continuing on this path and hope I never become so educated or enlightened as to change. (Bet I can "GUESS" what your response is to that).

0 Replies

Frank Apisa wrote:

snood wrote:
...well, if I'm wrong, I have nothing to lose. If you're wrong...

Well...unless the god is a scumbag...neither of us has anything to lose.

...yeah, a scumbag, or someone who wants a committment - same thing, when we're talking about eternity, Iguess.

0 Replies

duce wrote:

You know I'm praying for your return to the fold. :wink:

Whenever someone tells me they are praying for me...I always thank them.

Thank you, Duce. I understand that you mean me well with that.

I don't pray myself...but I do wish you well also.

Quote:

If I'm deluded, may I remain forever drunk in my delusion, for there I have found no harm, made many personal improvements and have found a contentment and even occasional joy
that I did not have before.

If you will pardon the expression....AMEN!

I have no problem with that at all...and if asked, would recommend that course (have, in fact, recommended that course) to many people.

The only reason I discuss these things here...is because that is what these forums are designed for.

Quote:

I am continuing on this path and hope I never become so educated or enlightened as to change. (Bet I can "GUESS" what your response is to that).

I wish you luck in that.

(I'll bet your were wrong in your bet!) Twisted Evil

0 Replies

See Snood:

Frank ain't so bad. I really enjoy hearing from him. At least his opposition is educated opposition and not like many others I encounter. Besides evey time I see him describe the "nothingness" agnostic philosophy, I become more convinced of my own "somethingness". Ain't it great, he actually encourages my beliefs as well at teaching me about others views.

0 Replies

paulaj wrote:

<runs in, looks around, wishes I had half of the energy Frank has>

:wink:

0 Replies

duce wrote:

See Snood:

Frank ain't so bad. I really enjoy hearing from him. At least his opposition is educated opposition and not like many others I encounter. Besides evey time I see him describe the "nothingness" agnostic philosophy, I become more convinced of my own "somethingness". Ain't it great, he actually encourages my beliefs as well at teaching me about others views.

I've never said Frank was "bad".

0 Replies

Something interesting on yesterday's TV news:

There is a "religious left" and they are a'growing, that's good even if it's to get votes from the religious folk.

According to some group (can't seem to get a full view of the short five-minute bite on this subject) there can't possibly be no "God" since the human body is much too complex to have occurred over time, through nature alone.

So, this group is suggesting a study of evolution be introduced in our public school systems with the idea not of "God" but Intelligent Design.

Actually, "we" are the real evidence there is "God" or intelligent designer. It's almost impossible for most to understand the workings of the brain in connection with the body, or the autonomic nervous system, but few in the world claim much knowledge of how the "mind" connects with the physical "us." Especially we can't explain how our thoughts affect our outer lives, even though the medical community admits they do.

I, myself, have never seen much difference between evolution and creationism.

0 Replies

sunlover wrote:

Something interesting on yesterday's TV news:

There is a "religious left" and they are a'growing, that's good even if it's to get votes from the religious folk.

According to some group (can't seem to get a full view of the short five-minute bite on this subject) there can't possibly be no "God" since the human body
So, this group is suggesting a study of evolution be introduced in our public school systems with the idea not of "God" but Intelligent Design.

Actually, "we" are the real evidence there is "God" or intelligent designer. It's almost impossible for most to understand the workings of the brain in connection with the body, or the autonomic nervous system, but few in the world claim much knowledge of how the "mind" connects with the physical "us." Especially we can't explain how our thoughts affect our outer lives, even though the medical community admits they do.

I, myself, have never seen much difference between evolution and creationism.

I'm not sure of what this is all about...but it is absurd to argue that there has to be a God because the human body is much too complex to have occurred over time, through nature alone.

If people want to guess there is a God...let 'em do so.

To pretend that a God is required by the evidence we have at our disposal is about as self-serving and silly as any pretension ever.

We are not "the evidence there is a God...or an Intelligent Designer."

We may, in fact, be nothing more than a simple organism on an insignificant speck of dust circling a relatively insignificant star in a relatively insignificant galaxy...in a much, much, much more complex universe than we think exists or can even imagine.

Many of the scientific explanations for "existence"are presumptuous. Most religious explanations for "existence" are not only more presumptious...but are also simplistically laughable.

0 Replies

Lemme just ask you this, Frank...
Could you understand why it might seem offensive or disrespectful, if someone casually and consistently referred to your system of beliefs (or in your case reasoned conclusions, I suppose) as "simplistically laughable"?

And while I'm at it, lemme ask one more...

If you can comprehend why that might strike someone as offensive and confrontational, can you imagine yourself disagreeing without being disagreeable?

0 Replies

Lemme take your second question first, Snood.

snood wrote:

If you can comprehend why that might strike someone as offensive and confrontational, can you imagine yourself disagreeing without being disagreeable?

Absolutely.

And I intend to do so.

I hope you can also!

Now to your first question:

Quote:

Lemme just ask you this, Frank...
Could you understand why it might seem offensive or disrespectful, if someone casually and consistently referred to your system of beliefs (or in your case reasoned conclusions, I suppose) as "simplistically laughable"?

Yes...I can.

But I am not referring to those belief as "simplistically laughable" to be offensive or disrespectful, Snood...but rather to share my honest opinion of them.

HONESTLY!

If anyone takes those comments to be offensive or disrespectful....I suggest that might say more about them than about me.

I am not trying to be nasty here in any way.

I am merely attempting to explain that I feel very, very passionately about my considerations of religion...and here in an Internet forum, I honestly do not think I have to sugar coat the incredibly negative feelings I have for religion...just because it might offend someone or that someone might find it disrespectful.

I do not want to show respect for religion.

I want to present it from my perspective...which is that although it has some incidental benefits for individuals...on the whole, I see it as a HUGE NET NEGATIVE for humanity.

I want to show it as little respect as absolutely possible...because HONESTLY...I think the best thing that can happen for humanity is for us to abandon religion in all its forms.

How does one project any of that intensity and purpose without stepping on some toes?

How does one project any of that intensity and purpose without saying things that will offend or will cause some to consider disrespectful?

Are you suggesting that I should I be more respectful of those considerations...even if it means doing so will be showing greater DISRESPECT for my own convictions and intentions?

0 Replies

Dear Sun:

Welcome! And Thanks for the article post. I have read other articles recently on the "design theory". As a Christian, I welcome it, or even other explanations. Let it show that there are grave questions beyond the missing link (Frank's ancestor's Laughing

)regarding Darwin and others. It really does not matter to me how God did it. My simple Southern backwater brain can not conceive that something GREATER than ourselves had to be at the root of our beginning. PS. Be nice to Frank, if he does not associate with people other than pagans how will he ever get back to the fold :wink:

0 Replies

Quote:

But I am not referring to those belief as "simplistically laughable" to be offensive or disrespectful, Snood...but rather to share my honest opinion of them.

HONESTLY!

Well, I could honestly look at my neighbor and say to her "Damn, you're obese!" I mean, I honestly feel that people should take better care of themselves, and I would just be trying to enlighten her. the truth is, "honesty" can be used as a disguise for brutality, if not tempered with kindness.

Quote:

If anyone takes those comments to be offensive or disrespectful....I suggest that might say more about them than about me.

And my suggestion to you is that it only speaks of you.

Quote:

I am not trying to be nasty here in any way.

...no, I don't think you are - maybe it's just a talent...

Quote:

I am merely attempting to explain that I feel very, very passionately about my considerations of religion...and here in an Internet forum, I honestly do not think I have to sugar coat the incredibly negative feelings I have for religion...just because it might offend someone or that someone might find it disrespectful.

So, since you have passionate, negative feelings about religion, it's evryone elses' job to take your insults?

Quote:

I do not want to show respect for religion.

Well, if you can't see that peoples' beliefs are very much a part of who they are, and that causes your jabs at their belief systems to be hurtful, then don't expect any respect in return.

Quote:

I want to present it from my perspective...which is that although it has some incidental benefits for individuals...on the whole, I see it as a HUGE NET NEGATIVE for humanity.

You're big on "guesses", and pointing out others' myriad "guesses". That thing about "huge net negative" - isn't that just a guess? Where is your proof that religion has done more harm than good? Can you show me any comparative statistics that the number of people comforted and helped by their religion is outnumbered by the number who've been oppressed? Of course you can't. But somehow your guesses should be sacrosanct, in Frank's world.

Quote:

I want to show it as little respect as absolutely possible...because HONESTLY...I think the best thing that can happen for humanity is for us to abandon religion in all its forms.

Another opinion - everyone's got one.

Quote:

How does one project any of that intensity and purpose without stepping on some toes? How does one project any of that intensity and purpose without saying things that will offend or will cause some to consider disrespectful?

So lemme get this straight. Since you can't "project" your true feelings about religion without "stepping on some toes", but you also believe you can agree without being disagreeable, when you step on toes, it's somebody else's problem?

Quote:

Are you suggesting that I should I be more respectful of those considerations...even if it means doing so will be showing greater DISRESPECT for my own convictions and intentions?

I'm saying your right to swing your arm ends at my nose. And if you can't get next to that, just don't bitch about it when I give you your own medicine.

0 Replies

I think religion is a bunch of hypocritical horseshit...fit pap only for the mentally challenged...or the terminally naive.

In most cases, I think it hypocrisy with a different spelling.

Anything I can do to call attention to the disgusting superstition that calls itself religion and pretends to be love and charity...I will do.

I attempted to explain my position in a reasonable and courteous way, Snood, but you are simply closed to that kind of thing.

In any case, it makes about as much sense for you to lecture me on respect and courtesy...as it is for you to lecture me on how to put a smile on my face when a camera is pointed my way.

Is that any better???

0 Replies

Frank Apisa wrote:

I think religion is a bunch of hypocritical horseshit...fit pap only for the mentally challenged...or the terminally naive.

In most cases, I think it hypocrisy with a different spelling.

Anything I can do to call attention to the disgusting superstition that calls itself religion and pretends to be love and charity...I will do.

I attempted to explain my position in a reasonable and courteous way, Snood, but you are simply closed to that kind of thing.

In any case, it makes about as much sense for you to lecture me on respect and courtesy...as it is for you to lecture me on how to put a smile on my face when a camera is pointed my way.

Is that any better???

It's okay, Frank - we all do the best we can, I guess.

0 Replies

God's Forgiveness

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know