5
   

In a nutshell: why Islam is doomed

 
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Nov, 2015 07:53 am
One of the few leaders in history for whom i have a genuine respect was Yusuf, a Kurd also known as Ṣalāḥ ad-Dīn, or, as the French have it, Saladin. He was an effective military leaders, and therefore had to accept a harsh profession, but seems never to have willfully cruel, and eschewed pomp and the trappings of power. It was alleged in his lifetime that his servants lead him a merry dance because they were old faithful retainers whom he could not put aside. I suspect they exploited that. He was never know to deceive either allies or enemies. I find him an interesting character.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Mon 23 Nov, 2015 08:09 am
@Tuna,
Quote:
Your comprehension of the differences between Islam and Christianity is clearly close to zero.


Strange as that is how I feel about your knowledge of history and or religion IE near zero.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Nov, 2015 08:14 am
@izzythepush,
Quote:
There you go. BillRM lives in a fantasy world and talks a load of nonsense.


Poor baby even those from your posting you are agreeing with me about sharia law as not being a core part of Islam religion you still are driven to attacked me.
Tuna
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Nov, 2015 08:35 am
@izzythepush,
Quote:
And it's an interpretation and needs to be updated as its creators wanted. By locking it in stone you're doing the same thing as the fundamentalists. Most modern thinking Moslems do condemn slavery

I'm not locking Muslim holy texts in stone. Muslims began to do that during the 10th Century.

It is true that most of the world's Muslims condemn slavery. They should not expect an imam or ulama, speaking on behalf of Islam, to explicitly join them in that condemnation. They rely on political authority beyond Islam to do that. In this way, Islam is morally dependent on the power of states.

We could imagine an Islam, unburdened by a legacy of domination by the British, free of an explosive sectarian conflict, free to evolve organically according to its own best vision of itself without being undermined and manipulated by forces beyond its control. That Islam would not find itself practically paralyzed in the face of bloodshed that breeds bloodshed.

The struggle that this hypothetical Islam would face would be ijtihad, not jihad. There is beauty in Islam. I believe I understand why people have been drawn to it for hundreds of years. It does appear to me that the odds are stacked against its survival, though. There are forces in the world that reinforce rigidity in Islam. In the long term, rigidity is lethal.


izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Mon 23 Nov, 2015 08:37 am
@Tuna,
You still don't appreciate what Sharia law is. It's an interpretation, it's not set in stone like the Koran, just because some fundamentalists think it is doesn't mean you have to follow suit.
izzythepush
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 23 Nov, 2015 08:39 am
@BillRM,
After the fuss you kicked up when your mum died you've got no place calling anyone a baby, even babies.
Tuna
 
  2  
Reply Mon 23 Nov, 2015 09:08 am
@izzythepush,
Quote:
You still don't appreciate what Sharia law is. It's an interpretation, it's not set in stone like the Koran, just because some fundamentalists think it is doesn't mean you have to follow suit.

Oh for ****'s sake.
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Mon 23 Nov, 2015 10:44 am
@izzythepush,
Quote:
After the fuss you kicked up when your mum died you've got no place calling anyone a baby, even babies.


My my so you attacking me for having a rough time when my mother died and sharing some of that pain with this group?

Is there nothing you will not try to used again anyone who dare to disagree with you?
izzythepush
 
  0  
Reply Mon 23 Nov, 2015 10:50 am
@BillRM,
Not using anything, pointing out a fact. My mother died more recently than yours but you don't know about it because I didn't kick up a fuss. I dealt with it. That's what men do.
BillRM
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 23 Nov, 2015 10:50 am
@Tuna,
Quote:
Oh for ****'s sake.


Yes we all know that you have a point of view that is not open to counter arguments of any kind and sadly you fit all too well with too many posters on this website in that regard.

We even have such people as Izzy that allowed his emotions and hate such control that he can not drop his personal attacks even when the objects of his attacks are agreeing with him.
izzythepush
 
  0  
Reply Mon 23 Nov, 2015 10:53 am
@BillRM,
Your support isn't usually a good thing. You know why I have a problem with you, and it goes to the heart of who you are as a person. Nothing I've learnt about you is good. Nothing.
BillRM
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 23 Nov, 2015 10:56 am
@izzythepush,
Quote:
My mother died more recently than yours but you don't know about it because I didn't kick up a fuss. I dealt with it. That's what men do


My I did not know you was given the power to decide what manhood is or is not.

I must had miss the memo that keeping silent is an important part of manhood, focusing instead on the parts about meeting the obligations to take care of an aging member of the family for years and keeping her in her home to the very end.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Mon 23 Nov, 2015 11:00 am
@izzythepush,
LOL so a man a real man like you can not accepted support on subjects that others agree with you on if you have a "problem" with the person who is agreeing with you.

Yes you are indeed a real man.............in the worst possible meaning of those words.
0 Replies
 
Tuna
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Nov, 2015 11:11 am
I think we probably need some back-alley peace negotiations for this crowd. I doubt Norway would want to get involved.

“Simplicity, patience, compassion.
These three are your greatest treasures.
Simple in actions and thoughts, you return to the source of being.
Patient with both friends and enemies,
you accord with the way things are.
Compassionate toward yourself,
you reconcile all beings in the world.”
― Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Mon 23 Nov, 2015 01:53 pm
@Tuna,
My peace negotiations with those mad killers?

Sorry the only peace that can be have is after we wiped them off the face of the earth.
Tuna
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Nov, 2015 02:42 pm
@BillRM,
I was talking about you and izzy. You insult him, he insults you. On and on, back and forth.
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Mon 23 Nov, 2015 06:24 pm
@Tuna,
I
Quote:
was talking about you and izzy


Take note in the future of who issue the first insult and who go off topic to do so as for example this thread the last time I look have zero to do with the proper ways to deal with your dying mother.
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Nov, 2015 07:18 pm
@Tuna,
The problem with fishing with explosives is you never know what might come to the surface ! But knowledge of the fishing grounds can help.

(You might want to think about that example if 'the catch' ever lets you get to discussing definitions of 'knowledge' on your epistemology thread,)
Tuna
 
  2  
Reply Mon 23 Nov, 2015 08:00 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
Take note in the future of who issue the first insult and who go off topic to do so as for example this thread the last time I look have zero to do with the proper ways to deal with your dying mother.

I'm in no position to judge. I'm a jerk, although I can't say I've ever made fun of someone for expressing grief.

But I do come from a culture that doesn't allow that kind of expression. When I was a kid, I sat with some relatives watching a TV broadcast about the new Vietnam Memorial in Washington DC. It showed a woman who found her brother's name on the wall and sank down to her knees weeping.

My great aunt became outraged at the display. She went on and on about how disgusting it was and then she said "Everybody's lost a brother in a war!" I was confused by her outburst until I remembered that her brother died in WW2. And I knew: she had never been allowed to openly grieve. Her anger at the sight of someone else publicly weeping was as close as I would ever get to knowing the pain she must have felt.

My experience is that grief for the loss of a loved one goes deep: to a place that isn't entirely rational. I can only imagine how Muslims suffering from sectarian violence feel. But I'm human. I know based on that, that they must become locked into the conflict. Eventually, the fact that Shias condemn the Companions of the Prophet in their ceremonies isn't the real reason for the conflict. It's that so many people have lost people they loved. To some extent, the violence we see is their grief.

If you've known grief, you know at least part of the story of the monsters you declare we must wipe from the face of the earth. They're your brothers and sisters.



Tuna
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Nov, 2015 08:14 pm
@fresco,
Quote:
The problem with fishing with explosives is you never know what might come to the surface !

Large amounts of dead fish?

Quote:
(You might want to think about that example if 'the catch' ever lets you get to discussing definitions of 'knowledge' on your epistemology thread,)

The last line of the Tao Te Ching quote above seems to suggest that I'm ever only talking to myself. Put that in your Private Language Argument and smoke it.
0 Replies
 
 

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