Turn on the Republican convention right now! Bush Sr.'s on!

Seeing it requires one to pay Moore for making it. I know lots of folks who haven't seen it for that reason (I have)... and of course it was scripted... it was a speech. Laughing

Also interesting that Moore was allowed to be there. Nader you'll recall wasn't allowed to attend the Democratic Convention.

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I mentioned the microexpressions being at odds with his words when I was heckling McCain's speech, live. (Can I do that with Bush's speech too? Please?) The micro shaded into macro when he said something about confidence in the president -- he was just plain LYING when he said that. (His eyelid flickered, one corner of his mouth was doing weird things.)

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sozobe wrote:

Can I do that with Bush's speech too? Please?

Who you askin? I'm not the boss of you. :wink:

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OCCOM BILL wrote:

Seeing it requires one to pay Moore for making it. I know lots of folks who haven't seen it for that reason (I have)

Wasn't the deal, in the U.S. at least, that any profits would go to a charity of Disney's choice. Something odd like that.

In any case, having recently read a couple of biographies of Giuliani, listening to anything he says now is coming through a huge filter of fear I've developed.

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OCCOM BILL opines:

Quote:

Seeing it requires one to pay Moore for making it. I know lots of folks who haven't seen it for that reason (I have)... and of course it was scripted... it was a speech.

Also interesting that Moore was allowed to be there. Nader you'll recall wasn't allowed to attend the Democratic Convention

It was an op-ed piece wrapped around visual facts. As you've seen the movie, do you believe McCain was right in stating that Michael thought Iraq was an Oasis of peace and that we shouldn't have invaded based on that premise (which is utterly false, IMO)? And do you think that Michael is against the troops, despite the fact that he featured the families of these soldiers dying in an unjust war, their misery and sacrifice, pointing out that it is predominantly the POOR who serve our country in a time of war? These are the problems with many rightwingers who refuse to see the film because they would be paying Michael Moore.

That kind of blind hatred gets us nowhere as a country.

As far as Nader is concerned, he's a PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE. Michael Moore is a guest op-ed writer for USA Today. It certainly was great that McCain had no idea he was in the audience. An unprecedented moment in convention history, to be sure.

And now, many more people will probably flock to Michael's film, since McCain gave him some GREAT television coverage the other night.

Gotta love it.

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Michael Moore is the singing canary in the mineshaft of freedom (thanks Dennis). As long as he's breathing, I know I can say any damned thing I want, about anyone, anytime. He also encourages people to pay attention to what's going on around them. That's pretty much everything good I have to say about Michael Moore.

Dookiestix wrote:

As far as Nader is concerned, he's a PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE. Michael Moore is a guest op-ed writer for USA Today.

Nader has press credentials too. He's also 10 times closer to being a democrat than Moore is to being a Republican. No biggie. That was just an observation.

ehBeth, I have no idea where the money goes... but I thought Disney was out of it? Lightwizard?

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D'artagnan wrote:

Apparently (from what I've read; didn't hear it), McCain condemned Michael Moore's film, than later admitted he hadn't seen it.

Could this have been scripted?

I haven't watched the repub. convention mostly because I don't want to contribute to their being able to brag about getting more ratings. (a little shallow of me...nobody's perfect)

So I wonder do I get to condemn the convention as a digusting con job no better than a magic act? Based on the things I have been reading from others who have seen it, that seems to be the case.

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Larry434 wrote:

What is your beef with the Harlem Boys Choir?

Quote:

I always enjoy seeing and hearing them no matter the venue they are performing in.

I have absolutely NO beef with the Harlem Boys Choir. They are famous around the world, and sounded utterly beautiful. But they probably don't know much about the suppression of African American votes in Florida during the 2000 election.

If I was a member of the choir and knew what happened in Florida, I wouldn't have been there singing for the GOP convention.

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Most youth music groups (e.g., high school bands) would play at Satan's inauguration, if it brought them big exposure. I'd hardly count that as an endorsement...

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D'artagna:

Quote:

Most youth music groups (e.g., high school bands) would play at Satan's inauguration, if it brought them big exposure. I'd hardly count that as an endorsement...

A politically astute individual may think otherwise, because their presence alone could be "misconstrued" as an endorsement. Especially when the policies of the GOP directly contradict everything you believe in.

There are a lot of dumb Americans out there.

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Dookie:

Do you mean that adult leaders of these groups should think twice before agreeing to perform at partisan events? If so, I agree...

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That's pretty much what I'm saying. The Harlem Boys Choir has had plenty of exposure over the years. Imagine growing up after singing as a member at the GOP convention and realizing/learning that you sang for a bunch of racist cronies who disenfranchised thousands of elligible African American voters in the 2000 election.

I'd be pretty p*ssed, not only at the GOPers, but the adult leader of the group who agreed to perform for the GOP.

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If forcing someone to vote in their own precinct, or vote only ONCE is disenfranchisement...

There were busloads of people (mostly black) who had never voted before--who didn't know the rules of voting, who made these charges--and the partisan Democrats used the confusion to lie about Republicans.

The reason they were black was because these were the people Jesse Jackson held the most influence over. They weren't singled out for 'disenfranchisement'--they were singled out by Jackson--many of them driven in mass transit--who didn't have any history or knowledge re voting.

Many had been registered a long time ago--and hadn't voted in decades--and some had just been registered by Jackson and the Rainbow PUSH. They didn't know about Precincts--or any other rules.

I'm so tired of Dems using the poliics of racial division. There are rules to voting. People should know what they are--and follow them.

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No, Sofia, there is much more to it than that. It has to do with ex-convicts, and a whole bunch of others who were "scrubbed" from the voter rolls in Florida in 2000, by Katharine Harris (?) and others with specific Republican ties. It's pretty stinky all around. I don't remember details right now, nor do I have the time -- hopefully someone else will step in. But much, much more than what you say above.

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There have been recent articles about this, sozobe. The idea that this is all about Jesse Jackson trying to get fake voters to register reminds me of the rhetoric one used to hear from the powers-that-be in the South in the good old days.

There would have been no problems (and no black voters) if it weren't for those outside agitators...

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I don't pretend to know of every complaint, and the story behind them all--but the scenario I explained previously WAS in fact the source of many false complaints.

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I didn't even say they were illegitimate voters. I said they were either first time voters, who were trying to vote in the wrong precinct, or people, who had voted decades ago--and again were either in the wrong place, or didn't have their voter registration cards (or their names weren't found on voter lists) or were in some way not prepared to vote legally.

When they were told..."You have to go to the Seventh Precinct" many people said--"You're trying to keep me from voting..." In that horrible climate, mountains were made of molehills--and false accusations were made.

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Isn't it a federal law--convicts lose the right to vote?
Some of them?

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That is an opinion, a neoconservative scribe if I ever heard one, Sofia.

Now here's what happened:

Quote:

What really happened in Florida?But these people weren't felons, so why were they scrubbed?

The Florida Republicans wanted to block African Americans, who largely vote as Democrats, from voting. In 1999 they fired the company they were paying $5,700 to compile their felony "scrub" lists and replaced them with Database Technologies [DBT], who they paid $2.3 million to do the same job. [DBT is the Florida division of Choicepoint, a massive database company that does extensive work for the FBI.]

There are a lot of Joe Smiths in the Florida phonebook. DBT was hired to verify which Joe Smith was a felon and which was not. They were supposed to use their extensive databases to check credit cards, bank information, addresses and phone numbers, in addition to names, ages, and social security numbers. But they didn't. They didn't use one of their 1,200 databases to verify personal information, nor did they make a single phone call to verify the identity of scrubbed names.

So where did DBT get their data?

From the Internet. They went to 11 other states' Internet sites and took names off dirt-cheap. They scrubbed Florida voters whose names were similar to out-of-state felons. An Illinois felon named John Michaels could knock off Florida voter John, Johnny, Jonathan or Jon R. Michaels, or even J.R. Michaelson. DBT matched for race and gender, but names only had to be similar to a certain degree. Names could be reversed, and suffixes (Jr., Sr.) were ignored, but aliases were included. So the felon John "Buddy" Michaels could knock non-felon Michael Johns or Bud Johnson Jr. off the voter rolls. This happened again and again.

Although DBT didn't get names, birthdays or social security numbers right, they were very careful to match for race. A black felon named Mr. Green would only knock off a black Mr. Green, but not a single white Mr. Green. That's how DBT earned its $2.3 million.

Why didn't DBT use their own databases?

They didn't, because the state told them not to. Choicepoint vice-president James Lee was grilled by a Congressional committee, headed by Cynthia McKinney, and he admitted everything, but said DBT was following state directives. Florida state officials told DBT to knock off voters by incorrectly matching them with felons.

Congresswoman McKinney led this commission to her own peril. Choicepoint is in her Atlanta district. She was destroyed in the last election by fabricated quotes and a vicious propaganda campaign.

Is this the only way votes were stolen?What happened to Choicepoint?

Try some more facts next time Sofia, instead of accusing African Americans of being rascist against themselves, which is the most absurd bullshite I've ever heard.

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Turn on the Republican convention right now! Bush Sr.'s on!

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