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Turn on the Republican convention right now! Bush Sr.'s on!

 
 
Reply Mon 26 Jul, 2004 07:02 pm
Hurry up!
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 17,293 • Replies: 441
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OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Jul, 2004 07:21 pm
How does the very man who negotiated the "agreed framework" have the courage to bring up North Korea's nuclear weapons? This guy is blaming Bush for a problem he himself created. Whose idea was it to have the former President with the worst foreign policy in history stand up to endorse Kerry anyway? Will this help? By the way, I'm well aware the man is a Saint of a human being and always means well, but come on. Rolling Eyes
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ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Jul, 2004 07:29 pm
I am a bit sad to see Carter like this. He should be above these kind of attacks.

The convention is turning out a lot more agressive than I expected. I thought the strategy was to make Kerry shine. Everyone already knows that Bush is a failure (except those who will never admit it).

It will be interesting to see how the convention develops. I think the Dems would be best served to present a positive vision. There is more than enough time to knock this very vulnerable president.

I have always had a deep respect for Carter. His speech tonight made me cringe.
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littlek
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Jul, 2004 07:31 pm
well, then, I'm glad I missed it.
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OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Jul, 2004 08:26 pm
Hillary is on now!
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littlek
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Jul, 2004 08:34 pm
eh
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OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Jul, 2004 08:37 pm
Now it's Bill's turn!
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kuvasz
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Jul, 2004 08:39 pm
carter was spot on. it was personal with carter tonight and it showed. he firmly believes that bush has done two things. the first is seek war before peace, and second, lie about it, both of which can be accounted for and blessed if done as the context requires. but carter is unconvinced that bush did what he did for the nation, carter believes that bush did it for bush, and that carter can not abide. it is to him a sundering of a sacred trust a president has to put nation before self.

does anyone really think that had carter bombed tehran to ruble in late 1979 or early 1980 he would not have beaten reagan in 1980? carter could have ensured his re-election simply by having the american air force bomb the ever living crap out of iran and kill tens of thousands, and probably too the 55 hostages. the american people wanted him to. but he but chose to use less destructive methods. even then, had the helicopters gotten the hostages out instead of hitting that sand storm in the northern deserts of iran, carter would have declared a genius and beaten reagan.

and before we talk about the economy under carter, just remember who he picked for the fed head and what volker did and at what it contributed to carter's re-election defeat. volker's necessary tight money belt monetary policies in 79-80 created the wave reagan's economic boon rode upon

OCCOM BILL wrote:
How does the very man who negotiated the "agreed framework" have the courage to bring up North Korea's nuclear weapons? This guy is blaming Bush for a problem he himself created. Whose idea was it to have the former President with the worst foreign policy in history stand up to endorse Kerry anyway? Will this help? By the way, I'm well aware the man is a Saint of a human being and always means well, but come on. Rolling Eyes




but, really?

the guy who brought 90 million egyptian muslims and 15 million israelis peacably together, after them having fought 3 bitter wars within 25 years has no seat at the table or is denied as a legitimate commentary voice when international diplomacy is the most important feature in the american tool-belt to secure the safety of americans.

as to carter's title of worst president for foreign policy, i would submit that many of the 900 dead american soldiers and 9,000 injured americans who were lucky enough to be in the armed forces under bush the lesser might disagree.

how many american soldiers died while carter was president? now subtract from that those who died trying to rescue the hostages in '80. we are needlessly losing that many now under bush in a day or two.

i do not count foreign policy coups by the ears we take in battle or the number of battles we fight, especially needless ones, but by those we can avoid in pursuit of our goals.

as the greatest military power the earth has ever seen, having to go to war means that we failed at diplomacy.

any idiot can burn down a barn. its the smart one who can avoid the torching it altogether.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/carter/gallery/images/10.jpg
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Jul, 2004 08:50 pm
Quote:
"Jimmy and Rosalyn Carter have done more good things for more people across the world than anyone else in history."

-- Bill Clinton
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Piffka
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Jul, 2004 08:59 pm
"Strength AND Wisdom go hand in hand... "

ahhh, I've missed Bill's speechifying.
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Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Jul, 2004 08:59 pm
Strength and wisdom are not competing values.

W J Clinton.
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OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Jul, 2004 09:01 pm
Wow, slick hasn't lost a step. Shocked I'm glad hardly anyone saw that because that man is a closer. I forgot how well he speaks; "Strength and wisdom are not opposing values."
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OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Jul, 2004 09:03 pm
Laughing I wonder which of us got that quote right right?
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kuvasz
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Jul, 2004 09:04 pm
yes, bill it makes one reconsider the wisdom of the 22nd amendment.
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Piffka
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Jul, 2004 09:04 pm
He said them all... good speakers rephrase their best lines.
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ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Jul, 2004 09:05 pm
Bill Clinton is simply a brilliant speaker.

He may be a closer, but I think they put him the first night because Kerry will almost certainly be upstaged by his performance.
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Piffka
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Jul, 2004 09:07 pm
We'll he could be the Sec'y of State, couldn't he?
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Piffka
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Jul, 2004 10:23 pm
Here we go... B.Clinton's speech text:
Quote:

Strength and wisdom are not opposing values.

They go hand in hand.

They go hand in hand, and John Kerry has both.


O'Bill, it looks like you nailed the quote, I paraphased it, and Clinton said it three times, once for each of us.
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OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Jul, 2004 10:41 pm
Boy, you're quick Piffka. And I believe he can hold any job but President... maybe First Lady one day? Laughing

ebrown_p wrote:
Bill Clinton is simply a brilliant speaker.

He may be a closer, but I think they put him the first night because Kerry will almost certainly be upstaged by his performance.
I'd say you got that dead on. No slam on Kerry there… he'd make most anyone look sloppy.

kuvasz wrote:
yes, bill it makes one reconsider the wisdom of the 22nd amendment.
Or reinforces it. :wink: Consider how you'd feel if our current President remained in office beyond 2 terms. Shocked

kuvasz wrote:
does anyone really think that had carter bombed tehran to ruble in late 1979 or early 1980 he would not have beaten reagan in 1980? carter could have ensured his re-election simply by having the american air force bomb the ever living crap out of iran and kill tens of thousands, and probably too the 55 hostages. the american people wanted him to. but he but chose to use less destructive methods. even then, had the helicopters gotten the hostages out instead of hitting that sand storm in the northern deserts of iran, carter would have declared a genius and beaten reagan.

3 things here.
1) You are suggesting as our elected representative he did a good job in part because he chose not to follow the will of the people he was representing. Confused
2) He was and may still be a genius… though he didn't sound like one tonight. Pretty sharp for 85 though.
3) Did you miss my disclaimer that I know he was a decent man who always meant well?

kuvasz wrote:
and before we talk about the economy under carter, just remember who he picked for the fed head and what volker did and at what it contributed to carter's re-election defeat. volker's necessary tight money belt monetary policies in 79-80 created the wave reagan's economic boon rode upon
Interesting thought... Whose policies do you credit the boom of the 90s to then?

kuvasz wrote:
OCCOM BILL wrote:
How does the very man who negotiated the "agreed framework" have the courage to bring up North Korea's nuclear weapons? This guy is blaming Bush for a problem he himself created. Whose idea was it to have the former President with the worst foreign policy in history stand up to endorse Kerry anyway? Will this help? By the way, I'm well aware the man is a Saint of a human being and always means well, but come on. Rolling Eyes

but, really?

the guy who brought 90 million egyptian muslims and 15 million israelis peacably together, after them having fought 3 bitter wars within 25 years has no seat at the table or is denied as a legitimate commentary voice when international diplomacy is the most important feature in the american tool-belt to secure the safety of americans.
What precisely does that have to do with the disaster of the "agreed framework"? He, without authority, negotiated a deal with a suspected terrorist, a known mass-murderer where we provide a windfall of economic aide in exchange for Kim not building the bomb, which he quite predictably did anyway.

This lovely, benevolent, peaceful solution allowed Kim to strengthen his position while MILLIONS of North Koreans paid the ultimate price. MILLIONS. Are dead people from other countries less important than dead American Soldiers?
Sorry, I don't think this is spinable. Carter's diplomacy with the monster Kim was a very, very predictable disaster. Idea

kuvasz wrote:
as to carter's title of worst president for foreign policy, i would submit that many of the 900 dead american soldiers and 9,000 injured americans who were lucky enough to be in the armed forces under bush the lesser might disagree.
And upon such a silly submission, I think I'm going to back off and give you an opportunity do the same... see if you're really interested in pursuing this debate. I noticed this is the second thread I've peeked your interest on today... but I still want to make sure.
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blueveinedthrobber
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Jul, 2004 10:43 pm
Clinton is the man. Great speech, smart speech...listed accomplishments without patting himself on the back and tied them all neatly to Kerry with a big red bow. Self effacing, economic, stirring, uniting.

Every speaker was great, and tonight we saw the beginning of how Kerry can send bush home.

How anyone can look at Jimmy Carter and accept him as a Christian and then even consider bush to be one is certainly a puzzlement.
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