Deadly shooting on Oregon college campus

When the scholars who wrote up Sharia law, based on their own interpretation of the Koran, they were keen to point out that it was just their interpretation, for that time. They recommended that it not be set in stone, that instead each generation revisit it, because time changes things.

Unfortunately the exact opposite has happened. The NRA/Tea Party are exactly the same as their IS counterparts in that they refuse to revisit a historical document to make it relevant today. As it stands the 2nd Amendment is an anachronism evidenced by the wildly disproportionate homicide rate.

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@snood,

snood wrote:

Part of the tea party / radical right narrative is that 'the people' have to be ready to rise up and fight against Uncle Sam when he starts behaving like jackbooted Nazis and comes for their guns and freedom. This narrative never addresses how 'the people' armed with whatever they could get from legal and illegal gun sellers would be able to stand against a multi billion dollar arsenal that includes among many other things drone warfare, fighter jets, and tactical nukes.

I've heard that narrative discussed many times over the decades, and its proponents very much address that issue.

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@izzythepush,

Quote:

they were keen to point out that it was just their interpretation, for that time.

Total bullshit. Please show me any proof of that. Islam changes nothing, and the Koran is to be interpreted literally. As you can see by all the people dying for disagreeing or believing something else.

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@snood,

Quote:

Not to mention a standing fighting force of over 1.5 million troops if you include Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines and Coast Guard (not that those would all be used in a domestic fight)

You are forgetting soldiers are citizens too. And an increasing number are oathtakers and will do nothing against the Constitutional rights. If the government intends to do that get ready for mass desertion.

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@snood,

This narrative never addresses how 'the people' armed with whatever they could get from legal and illegal gun sellers would be able to stand against a multi billion dollar arsenal that includes among many other things drone warfare, fighter jets, and tactical nukes.
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First what percent of the US military would join such a rebellion taking the drones and the jets and the tac nukes along with them?

Second you might wish to read a few books on Asymmetric warfare before you are so sure that a modern wide spread rebellion in the US could be put down with little efforts.

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@coldjoint,

If the government intends to do that get ready for mass desertion
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As we no longer draw our military from the population as a whole since we dropped the draft and those who are now our military men and women tend to be more right wing then average, I would not bet that a large percent of those men and women would not be fighting with the anti government forces in short order.

To say nothing of the red states national guard units.

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@MontereyJack,

How do you explain away countries that have gun control and a MUCH higher rate of suicide than the US has?

US is raked 50th in suicide rate at 12.1 per 100,000. Japan is ranked 17th with a rate of 18.5. Japan doesn't have access to guns like we do here in the US. Suicide has nothing to do with the weapon for the most part, just like mass shootings, it is the frame of mind of the person.

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Calling all eggheads, I mean educated progressives, look at this.

Quote:

HARVARD STUDY: Stringent gun controls lead to higher murder rates

Quote:

The data shows “correlations that nations with stringent gun controls tend to have much higher murder rates than nations that allow guns,” they wrote.

http://theamericanmirror.com/harvard-study-stringent-gun-controls-lead-to-higher-murder-rates/

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@Baldimo,

Baldimo wrote:

How do you explain away countries that have gun control and a MUCH higher rate of suicide than the US has?

US is raked 50th in suicide rate at 12.1 per 100,000. Japan is ranked 17th with a rate of 18.5. Japan doesn't have access to guns like we do here in the US. Suicide has nothing to do with the weapon for the most part, just like mass shootings, it is the frame of mind of the person.

even more interesting, why dont asians in the US switch to guns?

Quote:

Suicide is one of the most important public health issues in both Japan and the United States. This study is to clarify the differences in methods of suicide between the two countries, among various races within the United States, and between genders and age-groups.
METHODS:
Vital statistics mortality data and the estimated population in 1999 in Japan and in the United States were used. Age-adjusted mortality rates were calculated using the age-specific total population of Japan and the United States as a standard population. In addition, the proportionate distribution of suicide methods was calculated.
RESULTS:
Age-adjusted mortality rates from suicide in Japan were about 2 times higher for males and 3 times higher for females compared with the United States. The most common method among both genders in Japan was hanging, followed by jumping from a high place. In the United States, it was firearms among both genders, followed by hanging among males and drugs among females. For Asians in the United States, hanging was the method of choice for about half among both genders; hanging was the most common method for the age group of 40 years or more among males and for all age groups among females. Firearms were the method of choice for the 20-39 age group among males.
CONCLUSIONS:
Although the overall suicide rates among Asians in the United States were lower than Japan, the methods were similar to those in Japan.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15617392

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@Baldimo,

Japan has Hara-Kiri
USA as some western countries reports suicide as accidents.

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@saab,

Do you really think all those people in Japan are killing them selves using Seppuku? Cutting their own bowels out? Come on man, you can't be the uninformed... not to mentioned that whole comment strikes me as applying an untrue stereotype.

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@Baldimo,

I am of the school that those who want to leave will leave, that we cant keep them here by depriving them of tools, which could only be done by depriving us of the same tools. I also insist that suicides be removed from gun violence numbers, suicides belong on the other side of the cost benefit ledger on guns, providing guns for suicide is a public service.

I also point out the the anti gun people ROUTINELY remain non transparent on where their numbers come from, and try not to get forced into justifying their numbers because they know that the facts are not on their side. That, plus they tend to be hyper emotional, which supports the theory that they have switched their brains off.

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I don't want to be distracted from what actually happened. The students in Oregon didn't plan on suicide. They had no idea that a stranger would want to kill them that day. If they thought they were in imminent danger, they would have stayed home. These people did nothing wrong, and yet they are dead. If some of you want to blame the victims, I hope it makes you feel more secure. It could be your child or grandchild tomorrow, please don't bellyache if it happens in your family.

1 Reply

@glitterbag,

Quote:

f some of you want to blame the victims, I hope it makes you feel more secure. I

LOL you are the one blaming everyone but the nut who killed those children including tens of millions of lawful firearm owners.

If the nut had gone through his home instead and build an explosive device from the materials he found is it also the fault of the millions of people who also have the same cleaning materials in their homes for those children deaths?

If the nut had gone out to his garage and taken the five gallon can of gasoline used to fuel his lawn mower and with a match set fire to those children would it also be the fault of everyone with a 5 gallon can of gasoline for those children deaths?

It the desire and actions taken by one sick person to harm those children not the tools used to do so that is evil.

Hell one night a nut did take a five gallon can of gasoline to a after hour New York night club and with it and a match killed 87 people.

No one was yelling afterward that five gallon cans of gasoline should be ban and anyone who would dare to fight such a ban do not care that 87 innocent people was killed using such a can.

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@BillRM,

When bombs can be made out of fertilizer and diesel fuel the idea of trying to limit violence by limiting tools gets to look bankrupt real fast,

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@hawkeye10,

Quote:

When bombs can be made out of fertilizer and diesel fuel the idea of trying to limit violence by limiting tools gets to look bankrupt real fast,

An people here will claims that it now harder to buy such fertilizers at least in bulk however there are endless common chemicals that can be turn into powerful bombs.

Hell we have not even address poisons that can and have been used to do mass murders for example.

Tools and means are just that tools and means and the desire to killed innocent children is the problems not the means some nut settle on to do so.

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@BillRM,

I want all you people to know that a minority of U S citizens own guns. The Jackleg liars on this site try to make it seem that everyone in the U S is a gun owner. This includes shotguns, rifles, and pistols. I know many who own guns and most who own them own more than 1 weapon. I know of some who own as many as 10. 34% is the number of people who think all people should own them. About the number of conservative who claim the privilege of conservatism.

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@BillRM,

You guys are missing the point, no one argues that the shooter killed the people in Oregon. And people die everyday in accidents, grizzly bear attacks, domestic abuse, you name it, its killed sombody.

You gun apologists are spitting on the humanity of those killed. Yes, they died by gunshot, but does it really matter, they will be just as dead if they were killed by a bomb. Split hairs all you like, I've lost friends and family by drug overdoses, accidents and two cousins were victims of murder. When frat boys get into a fight that is ended by gunshot and murder, something is very off-balance.

I don't want peoples guns confiscated, but I would like gun ownership to be taken more seriously. Maybe mothers in Walmart won't be shot by 2 year old who find mommy's gun in the purse she carelessly left in these with her toddler. You can't deny people get sloppy with these weapons. Guns are serious, and accidental shootings/killings are tragic, intentional killings need to be stopped. Just be responsible and stop trying to confuse the tragedy by blaming the victims.

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@glitterbag,

It really is insane the arguments they make. "Murderers and criminals will find the tools to do what they want, so what's the point in singling out guns?"

Following their "logic" - if it doesn't matter what "tools" are used, and the murders and assaults will just happen with other "tools" anyway, then enforcing restrictions on the firearm "tool" shouldn't bother the freaking idiot gun nuts.

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@RABEL222,

Quote:

I want all you people to know that a minority of U S citizens own guns. The Jackleg liars on this site try to make it seem that everyone in the U S is a gun owner.

You must be reading secret and hidden from the rest of us postings that contain such claims as I had not read any such claims on this thread or this website for that matter.

Tens of millions however do own the 300 millions or so firearms and here a break down by areas of the nation.

Quote:

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/one-three-americans-own-guns-culture-factor-study-finds-n384031

"One-third of Americans reported owning a gun, ranging from 5.2 percent in Delaware to 61.7 percent in Alaska," they wrote in their report. "Gun ownership was 2.25 times greater among those reporting social gun culture than those who did not," they added.

In the Northeast, gun ownership rates ranged from 5.8 percent in Rhode Island to 28.8 percent in Vermont.

In the Midwest, rates ranged from 19.6 percent in Ohio to 47.9 percent in North Dakota. In the South and mid-Atlantic, rates ranged from 5.2 percent in Delaware to 57.9 percent in Arkansas. And in the West, California had the lowest rate of gun ownership at 20 percent, while nearly 62 percent of Alaskans said they had a gun.

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Deadly shooting on Oregon college campus

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