Deadly shooting on Oregon college campus

@McGentrix,

McGentrix wrote:

Standing military should have standing military weapons. No one else needs them. A rifle/shotgun/pistol is all the fire arm a citizen has the right to. I've seen some of our militias and they certainly do not need access to missiles of any sort.

The Second Amendment says otherwise.

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@oralloy,

We'll just have to disagree on that one.

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@McGentrix,

McGentrix wrote:

We'll just have to disagree on that one.

The Framers were very clear on their intent for the Second Amendment. They wanted to ensure that the militia had unfettered access to advanced weaponry so that it would remain an effective fighting force.

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@McGentrix,

That's a very odd interpretation of this sentence. Some people just don't understand simple English, I guess.

I suppose this dispute could be resolved by looking into the motivations of those who wrote the 2nd amendment, as documented in their letters etc. Another way is to learn English.

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@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

That's a very odd interpretation of this sentence. Some people just don't understand simple English, I guess.

I suppose this dispute could be resolved by looking into the motivations of those who wrote the 2nd amendment, as documented in their letters etc. Another way is to learn English.

It's funny that you are complaining about someone else understanding simple English with that statement. What is "this sentence" referring to? The 2nd amendment? I'd say that they have a perfect understanding of English and explained it quite well.

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@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

That's a very odd interpretation of this sentence. Some people just don't understand simple English, I guess.

Straightforward English readings might lead you astray. Much more important is the actual legal intention.

Olivier5 wrote:

I suppose this dispute could be resolved by looking into the motivations of those who wrote the 2nd amendment, as documented in their letters etc.

Yes! Even better yet, as documented by their actual debate speeches regarding the Constitution and Second Amendment.

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@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

Quote:
The second amendment is there. Period. We have that to deal with that. But how?

You could try and implement it, ie enlisting all those who want to own a gun in a mandatory (and well organized) state militia.

Another way to "deal" with the 2nd amendment, beside implementing both parts of the sentence and not just one, would be to register all gun owners and regulate the ammo they can buy in a given period. Give them enough to practice and defend themselves but not enough to go on a shooting spree.

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@McGentrix,

Obviously you don't have a perfect understanding of English yourself...

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@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

Another way to "deal" with the 2nd amendment, beside implementing both parts of the sentence and not just one, would be to register all gun owners and regulate the ammo they can buy in a given period. Give them enough to practice and defend themselves but not enough to go on a shooting spree.

The amount needed to practice and defend yourself is *greater* than the amount needed to go on a shooting spree.

1 Reply

@oralloy,

Probably right that the math does not work in my favor here.

Still, controlling ammo sales would help project a general concern for human life. For a European like me, it's a bit odd to see booze regulated more closely than bullets... Having millions of rounds cheaply available at the nearest supermarket can only send the message that human life is expendable. These ammos are designed to kill people.... The same odd priorities are at work in the movie family rating system. Kids below 13 can be exposed to much violence but God forbid that they see a nipple.

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@Olivier5,

Made me laugh re that post on p. 30. But then I stopped laughing..

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@ossobuco,

It'd be fun to send to boot camp anyone wanting to tot a gun. Just to teach them a little discipline... :-o)

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

It'd be fun to send to boot camp anyone wanting to tot a gun. Just to teach them a little discipline... :-o)

Non-militiamen have the right to carry self-defense guns in public.

Militia membership is for the heavy weapons.

1 Reply

@oralloy,

Remember, its a "well regulated" not a "Well armed" militia. We already limit ownership of severl types of weapons and the district courts have upheld that.

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@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

Remember, its a "well regulated" not a "Well armed" militia. We already limit ownership of severl types of weapons and the district courts have upheld that.

The term "well regulated militia" meant that the militia in question had trained enough that they were capable of fighting as a single coordinated unit instead of fighting as a bunch of uncoordinated individuals.

The purpose of the second half of the Second Amendment is to ensure the militia's unfettered access to advanced armaments.

No court has ever issued a ruling limiting the weapons of the militia, and no court ever will. Rulings dealing with non-militiamen are entirely different.

The only real limit is that the Second Amendment only covers individual weapons. Tanks and fighter jets aren't covered.

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@Olivier5,

Still, controlling ammo sales would help project a general concern for human life.
----------------------------------------------------------------

Sure it does just like making it a jailing offense to have ammo alone in Mexico and the drug gangs run wild killing who they feel like including cops and judges and just your average unarmed Mexican citizens.

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@farmerman,

Of course I am however if you would take away the large homicide rate of our poor black citizens living in the inner cities where armed gangs are allowed to rule our homicide rate even with all our guns is roughly the sames as the EU nations.

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Ordenary people with plenty of guns are militia.
What do you need them for in USA of today? For guerrilla warfare ?
Against whom?
A whole bunch of men, women and more or less kids running around shooting at anything moving - that certainly would be the worst militia one could think of.
Guerilla warfare also means you have to know your area very very well and be able to move around without being seen or heard. Good guerilla warfare can usually not be concored.
But gun nuts - God save me for them if things really get serious.

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@saab,

saab wrote:

What do you need them for in USA of today?

Why do Freedom Haters always go on and on about "need"?

We're free here in America. Need is irrelevant.

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@saab,

saab wrote:

Ordenary people with plenty of guns are militia.
What do you need them for in USA of today? For guerrilla warfare ?
Against whom?
A whole bunch of men, women and more or less kids running around shooting at anything moving - that certainly would be the worst militia one could think of.
Guerilla warfare also means you have to know your area very very well and be able to move around without being seen or heard. Good guerilla warfare can usually not be concored.
But gun nuts - God save me for them if things really get serious.

Part of the tea party / radical right narrative is that 'the people' have to be ready to rise up and fight against Uncle Sam when he starts behaving like jackbooted Nazis and comes for their guns and freedom. This narrative never addresses how 'the people' armed with whatever they could get from legal and illegal gun sellers would be able to stand against a multi billion dollar arsenal that includes among many other things drone warfare, fighter jets, and tactical nukes. Not to mention a standing fighting force of over 1.5 million troops if you include Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines and Coast Guard (not that those would all be used in a domestic fight). And leave aside the couple million more military reserves and National Guard.
But yeah - that's the harebrained hazy mixture of fear and anger they sell to their masses - "We gotta be able to fight against the oppressive Federal Gubmint!"

4 Replies

Deadly shooting on Oregon college campus

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