What Is the Most Important Challenge Facing the US?

Suzy writes:

Quote:

"The more prosperous the people, the more they demand that their air and water be clean and their surroundings be beautiful."
Where in the world do you gfet that idea, Foxfyre? I say it's wrong. And, actually, pretty ridiculous.
no offense.

Are you poor Suzy or do you have a roof over your head, plenty to eat, electricity, running water, confidence you'll eat tomorrow? How willing are you to breathe polluted air, drink dirty water, or be surrounded by toxic waste? Do you like green grass, flowers, appreciate the forests and wildlife? If you were scratching for your next meal, how worried do you think you would be worried about the quality of air, water, or whether the old growth forest behind your house is cut down?

How many comfortably well off people do you know who accept dirty air, water, and/or ugliness around them? It is not coincidental that the world's most polluted cities are also the world's poorest.

0 Replies

"What Is the Most Important Challenge Facing the US?"

Recovering its credibility as a trustworthy diplomatic partner and a collaborative force for good in the world. Not (just) for lofty, idealist reasons but also because in the long run, if it wants to safeguard its security, the US will need more than the odd significant ally thats not strongarmed or bribed into support - and will need a kind of benevolent or disinterested neutrality on the part of many countries that now are resentful and suspicious.

0 Replies

OK, I've read the thread and I've changed my mind.

It's the sock puppets, obviously. The very fact that we've heard so little of that danger yet indicates just how insidious it must be.

Kuvasz, what action do you propose?

0 Replies

Bi-polar Bear got it right.

Getting rid of Bush makes serious inroads to solving pretty much everything else. At the very least, it gets us back onto the right path.

It's almost impossible to over-estimate the damage this man and his cronies have done nationally and internationally.

The country is bitterly divided now. Bush did this. He is still doing it. He cannot bring us together. For that reason alone, he must go.

0 Replies

To blame polution on the poor is too ridiculous. These are the ones with the least power in society. No one consults with them before putting polluting entities in and around their neighborhoods. It is the rich making the polution and placing it among the poor so they don't have to endure it.

0 Replies

nimh wrote:

"What Is the Most Important Challenge Facing the US?"

Recovering its credibility as a trustworthy diplomatic partner and a collaborative force for good in the world. Not (just) for lofty, idealist reasons but also because in the long run, if it wants to safeguard its security, the US will need more than the odd significant ally thats not strongarmed or bribed into support - and will need a kind of benevolent or disinterested neutrality on the part of many countries that now are resentful and suspicious.

As a member of the US Army I could care less if the rest of the world likes us. I don't want to rely on other nations to keep the US safe. If they don't like us then fine leave us alone and don't ask for help if you ever need it. We should be reliant on our friends but only in the smallest of cases. If we need to build a coalition and can't find help then we should do like we did with Iraq. Look at Bush Sr, he allowed himself to be controlled by the UN and look what people did this time around. They made used this fact to show that he failed in Iraq. Well I for one am happy that we went.

Look at Afghanistan and where the level of development is. We have been working there for 2 years and are nowhere as far ahead as we are in Iraq. The UN is involved in Afghanistan and nothing is happening over there.

0 Replies

Nobody here "blamed pollution on the poor", edgar.

Fox just pointed out that the poor are more likely to take it in their stride - what, already having to worry about getting enough food, makes the list of priorities look differently. Kind of a duh statement. She also pointed out that since richer people are less likely to "accept" pollution (what, having the energy and resources to spend on nimby causes), "the world's most polluted" places tend to end up in "the world's poorest" places. Good point - shows how the poor are hit with a double blow ... :-(

0 Replies

Baldimo wrote:

I don't want to rely on other nations to keep the US safe. If they don't like us then fine leave us alone and don't ask for help if you ever need it.

Well, there's the rub ... they won't "leave you alone". And though you can defend yourself to some degree by arming yourself to the teeth, this world's gotten too interconnected to be able to safely retreat into some fortress. The world's also simply too big too rule by force, even for a superpower like the US. You wont be able to make it safely if you dont have enough friends ... or if you piss off too many people.

0 Replies

Except Foxfyre's "point" isn't really true. Look at any group of environmental protestors, you'll find plenty of the poor among them. When I was poor, I was among them as well. Just as the poor as a group give more to charity, so do they often notice and care more about issues that directly affect their surroundings. If we wait for the rich to do something, with all their money, we'll be waiting a long time, as we have been.Maybe it's because they're not too busy enjoying all their possesions to notice the rest of the world still has problems.
You think so, Baldimo? Here's the "difference" when the US is in charge, at least right now:
http://www.democracymeansyou.com/iraq/factsheet.php

0 Replies

Well, I dunno. In Europe the Green movement was far larger and more successful in the prosperous north than in the less wealthy south - and in the poorer-still East, environmental issues have mostly taken a back seat ever since the economic collapse in the early 90s ...

Of course, up in the wealthy north, it was often penniless youngsters and students who were active in environmental actions ... for sure. But on a macro-scale, Fox's assertion still seems an obvious enough one to me. Where do most American environmentalists hail from? Places like leafy Washington State and Vermont and pleasant Californian towns - or the grimy wastelands of the Rust Belt?

0 Replies

"Poor" is always relative. I was one of those bright eyed idealistic gonna change the world for the better activists in my youth too. But it was by choice, not by necessity. And I was never really hungry for long. Go without food, adequate clothing, adequate shelter for long with no assurance tomorrow will be any better, and I guarantee you that your priorities will change. There's a world of difference between those who can shuck their self-imposed poverty and go to work or go back to Mom and Dad and those who have no such options.

Nimh is right. It isn't a condemnation of the poor to say that the poorest people of the world will have the most polluted water, air, soil etc. It is simply a fact. Which is why targeting the richest countries to solve global environmental problems is probably futile. Help everybody to have enough basic necessities to feel rich, and the people themselves will take care of the environmental issues.

0 Replies

Once again - Money pollutes the most. It just puts the pollution among the poor.

I don't see that it affects this matter at all which responent is rich or poor. I grew up in a family that didn't know where the next meal was coming from - if at all. Today I am doing all right. So, what does that have to do with anything?

0 Replies

You think so, Baldimo? Here's the "difference" when the US is in charge, at least right now: http://www.democracymeansyou.com/iraq/factsheet.php[/quote wrote:

I wouldn't really call this a fact sheet. It seems more like an attempt to puch more propaganda against the current administration. If things were as you say then why did the security council vote in favor of such a plan? Mind you it was a total go vote not a partial. I was almost with you until this "fact sheet" started talking about how illegal the war was. It was at that point that I knew without a doubt it was propaganda!

0 Replies

Terrorism. I'm afraid that I think that 9/11 was just a preview.

0 Replies

The self-destructive policies of the Right.

0 Replies

Well of course it's propaganda! BUT it's also true.
Why did the security council vote for it? because just like with everything else, we put on a good show, just as the admin did on calling for this war in the first place; they convinced most of our representatives to go along. The fact that it received support doesn't mean the US and British interests are going to do right by them. As the fact sheet shows, it's stilll pretty sketchy on that score.

0 Replies

nimh wrote:

OK, I've read the thread and I've changed my mind.

It's the sock puppets, obviously. The very fact that we've heard so little of that danger yet indicates just how insidious it must be.

Kuvasz, what action do you propose?

Well nimh, that's tough one, and i believe that there is not much choice if we are to survive against a secret onslaught of SP PSYOP provocateurs.

Torture is never pretty, but there are times that one considers its use the only way to save lives

http://www.ksd.sk.ca/grassroots1/mr_doll/sock_puppets/MVC-021S.JPG

http://www.ksd.sk.ca/grassroots1/mr_doll/sock_puppets/Mvc-2001s.jpg

may god have mercy on our souls

0 Replies

the reincarnation of suzy wrote:

Just one huh? Rick is probably right, but Americans generally don't think about things like that until after we're in crisis mode. Might effect the profit margin.

It is not my intent to launch an attack, but I offer this as an observation:

It is quite unlikely that you would be able to identify any peoples of the world who consistently address problems before they reach a crisis stage.
This is human, not "American" nature.

By suggesting that Americans are unique in this regard, and that their uniqueness is driven by greed, you not only reveal an inadequate understanding of the dynamics behind this human behavioral phenomenon, but you make a great case for being a self-loathing, Anti-American American.

This is not to, necessarily, accuse you of anti-Americanism, but perhaps you might now see why others would jump to this conclusion.

0 Replies

The question at hand is about Americans specifically. However, you do have a point. Instead of Americans, I will say the military-industrial complex, because I am an American yet am given little responsibility or say for American endeavors or decisions, although all of us Americans get the blame for mistakes and horrors perpetrated in our name.
I just finished reading The Terrorism Trap.

0 Replies

Foxfyre wrote:

Prosperity is the answer to environment. The more prosperous the people, the more they demand that their air and water be clean and their surroundings be beautiful. So, just find ways to help everybody get rich and the world's environmental problems will be taken care of.

This counters historical trends and common sense. This is one of the greatest absurdities posted to Able2Know.

As expected, it does not come with substantiation.

0 Replies

What Is the Most Important Challenge Facing the US?

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know