The press didnt report the truth about the Fence

If the palastinians want peace, all they have to do is stop attacking israelies, the same is not true for the israelies.

It leads me to believe that you don't have a f*cking clue what you are talking about.

Cycloptichorn

You don't know ANYTHING about the region, man, give it up and quit trolling up another thread....

Cycloptichorn

LOL, its funny that an opinion is labled as a troll by you simply because it doesn't agree with yours.

I apparently know more about the region than you, israel has tried time and time again to broker peace with the PLO, but the palastinians wouldn't give up terrorism, so they reap what they sow, a simple enough scenario.

Don't forget Karzac that many on the left (not naming names) feel the need to support terrorists and terrorist organizations like Hamas, the PLO, Islamic, Jihad, al Qaeda...

They see any move by the western countries to eliminate these groups as a power move that threatens to unbalance the nature of things.

Do you know WHY the plans offered by Israel are so damn bad that they won't be accepted by any rational person?

Israel was indeed a country, as I suspect you know even as you deny it. I can name israeli kings, like david and solomon. Can you name a palastinian king?

Freedom fighters don't set out to blow up busses full of innocent people. Terrorists do.

They are losing ground because of the bombings, seems stupid to continue it and lose more ground, but that is what they seem intent on doing.

Dead innocent people are dead innocent people if they are in a bus or a plane or a building if it is made of a suicide bomb or a misssle.

The difference is in the deliberate targeting of civilians vs. collateral damage.

revel wrote:

You have a point, but they probably don't want to just lie down and take whatever crumbs they may or may not be given.

Then they can continue to lose.

Quote:

LOL, its funny that an opinion is labled as a troll by you simply because it doesn't agree with yours.

I apparently know more about the region than you, israel has tried time and time again to broker peace with the PLO, but the palastinians wouldn't give up terrorism, so they reap what they sow, a simple enough scenario.

No, they haven't. Can you provide me with documentary evidence to back up your claim, Karzak? Do you know ANYTHING about the peace plans that have been offered, at all? Do you know WHY the plans offered by Israel are so damn bad that they won't be accepted by any rational person?
Can you answer a SINGLE question that has been asked of you?

Cycloptichorn

Cycloptichorn wrote:
Do you know WHY the plans offered by Israel are so damn bad that they won't be accepted by any rational person?


LOL, do you think the palastinians are better off now with the intifada than if they had actually ever sought peace?

revel wrote:

You have a point, but they probably don't want to just lie down and take whatever crumbs they may or may not be given.


Then they can continue to lose.

I see that you've managed to troll up another post pretty well, Karzak.

Let me ask you a question: have you ever been to Isreal/Palestine? In the last ten years?

I have. I went on a trip three years ago, and again a year and a half ago. We stayed in Jerusalem for a month each time, during the summer.

The conditions in Palestine are hellish. The people there can't work, can't get jobs in Israel, aren't allowed to move around their own country, don't have access to food and water on a regular basis, and have their houses bulldozed whenever Israel feels like it. They have no organized resistance to Israel.

I can remember staying at a checkpoint for three hours, because one of the guys who was working with us was Palestinian. Although the exact same guards had let us into Palestine about 3 hours earlier, they wouldn't let him cross back into Jerusalem. There was a line of people 4 deep, it went back about 300 feet, in-between barbed wire fences, where the Palestinians were held like cattle, waiting to cross over. Only one or two out of five people actually could cross. One lady kept shouting and eventually was carried away in a squad car of some sort. My Isreali friends told me she was trying to go see her son, who was injured on the job in Israel, and they wouldn't let her go through to get to the hospital. I'll never forget the look on her face as they handcuffed her.

In Palestine, we talked to a family who had three kids (out of five) who were killed at Jenin a few years ago when the Israelis decided to destroy the whole damn town. The father worked for slave wages at a chicken hatchery in Israel, the mother stayed at home. They were but a single example of the unbelievable poverty the Israelis have forced these people into living in. EVERYWHERE you looked, there was rubble from fights. Everywhere.

So, when you say,

Quote:

If the palastinians want peace, all they have to do is stop attacking israelies, the same is not true for the israelies.

It leads me to believe that you don't have a f*cking clue what you are talking about.

Cycloptichorn

I guess America never should have been made, then, by your reasoning....

Cycloptichorn

Oh, I understand your reasoning.

You're a jerk, do you know that? I guess you can count this thread as another 'victory,' as I will stop posting - despite the fact that you fail to provide a shred of documentary evidence to support your beliefs, or to use sound logical structures, or show even a basic history of the topic that you are discussing.

Cheers to you, troll.

Cycloptichorn

Ok, as long as we are comparing and contrasting the American Revolution to the Palestinian/Israeli problem, lets compare it properly.

American militia did indeed hide behind trees during battles with British soldiers and I am sure they may have been called the equivalent of terrorists. How is that different though from what is going on now? Hmmm, well, let's see, I think the militia only targeted soldiers. I could see your point if the many palestinian fighters were targeting soldiers, but they are not. Why? I guess because they do not really care about a palestinian state. Their only stated objective is the elimination of Israel.

I don't know the answer for over there. But I know that as long as some (emphasis on some) groups continue to target Israeli civilians I would totally support any means within Israel's power to put a stop to it. Whether that is building a wall or going into neighborhoods and razing them to the ground because they are being used as bases for terrorist groups.

Am I cold and heartless? Maybe. But I would be the first to urge pressure on Israel to settle the problem of a Palestinian nation the moment these groups stop blowing up Israeli citizens and renounce their objective of driving Israel into the sea.