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THE US, THE UN AND THE IRAQIS THEMSELVES, V. 7.0

 
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Sep, 2004 05:49 am
Some insight .....

Quote:
Showdown in Najaf
The current crisis in Najaf is a test for the Shia religious leadership in Iraq, writes Abbas Kadhim*

Najaf lies at the heart of Shia identity, a symbol of the Shia heritage. The city is where the shrine of Ali Ibn Abi Talib stands reminding the Shia of justice and glory they have not experienced since his death, and it is the final resting place for their loved ones and ancestors.

But equally important is the status of Najaf as a city where unchallenged religious authority resides. Yet, this authority has been questioned, to say the least, since the beginning of the Anglo-American invasion. While the restrictions of past days have been lifted and many impediments are no longer in place, the positions of the Hawza (the Shia school of learning) do not point towards any sense of full emancipation from its long tradition of quietism. This is especially puzzling for many observers because, in the few times of action, the Hawza achieved impressive success.

This position of the Hawza can be explained by two facts. First, it is not entirely accurate to make the analogy, as some people often do, between the clergy in Najaf and the religious hierarchy of Roman Catholicism. The Shia clergy are not a hierarchy and the Ayatollahs do not report to one another.

Aside from the core principles of theology and jurisprudence, every Ayatollah is completely free in shaping his opinions. They can practise certain levels of peer pressure on one another, but not always with success. One can cite the example of the Iranian clergy who attempted to excommunicate Ayatollah Mohamed Hussein Fadlullah for his independent opinions. The result was complete failure on their part.

The second fact has to do with the composition of the clergy as a leadership. Contrary to what is often perceived, the Hawza is only one component of this guild. There are many respected Ayatollahs who are not officially affiliated with the Hawza. They often have different opinions and positions on social and political events. The Hawza, however, is the de facto leader of the Shia community, since its head acquires most of the visibility and authority. The authority of other Ayatollahs remains limited to their personal followers ( muqallidoun ).

The history of interaction among the Shia scholars does not reveal public rivalries over theological or juristic matters. These issues are often addressed in amicable ways. The most visible rivalries however arise from differences over political matters. Prominent examples are: the split of the Ayatollahs over the resistance to British colonisation and the government that came into being under its auspices early in the 20th century; the rivalry between Ayatollah Khomeini and the Hawza over the role of religion in the political process; and the current rivalry between Moqtada Al-Sadr and the senior Ayatollahs of Najaf.

The lack of action on the part of the Hawza has always encouraged, and empowered, other contenders for authority in the Shia community. Yet, in the past, the Hawza managed to maintain its prestige, thanks to the gullibility of the people. But today's average Shia follower is more sophisticated and well informed. Questioning authority is the main feature in a free society, and the Ayatollahs are no exception among all other forms of authority. They cannot hide behind their theological jargon in the middle of crises. If they fail to act, someone else will pick the pieces, and life continues forward.

Those young and energetic men who are being driven to the rank and file of Al-Sadr movement are sending a message to the grand Ayatollahs that time has come to set aside the discourse over ablution and purity and types of water, and start paying attention to the affairs that matter in a world that is moving at the speed of light. It is no longer acceptable for a leader to hand down two written lines and remain aloof from the masses. Unlike their counterparts in Iran, Lebanon, and elsewhere, the Ayatollahs of the Iraqi Hawza have been unapproachable for decades. This is not a viable method to lead a crowd so used to demystifying its icons and role models.

What we need are 20th-century Ayatollahs who talk on satellite TV about world issues, who use computers and cell phones, but who also have the common touch to walk in the markets and speak with vendors and shoppers. If Imam Ali were alive, he would have done that and more. His deputies must not hold themselves above it.

The phenomenon of Moqtada Al- Sadr is a testimony to the sorry state of affairs in the Shia community. It proves, inter alia, that the old links no longer bind the leader and his constituency. Therefore, the question must not be, "what is wrong with the Shia who rally around Moqtada Al- Sadr?" Rather, it must be, "what is wrong with the grand Ayatollahs who lose their constituents to Moqtada Al- Sadr?"

* The writer is a PhD candidate at the University of California, Berkeley.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Sep, 2004 09:36 am
Joe Nation wrote:
This will be my last post on this thread regarding these internal matters of the US..... We ought to return to the subject of the thread


I agree! However, as I intend to show later to day, these Declaration and Constitution matters have relevance to the current problems confronting the Iraqis.

Joe Nation wrote:
You might want to mention this amendment the next time George pushs his faith-based enterprises as governmental entities....


Why should I wait? I'll mention it now. I oppose faith-based enterprises as governmental enterprises regardless of who or what advocates them. In addition to my other reasons, the 1st Amendment prohibits such enterprises.

If as alleged, they were combatants in making war against the US, under our Constitution they are not covered by the 5th Amendment, nor, I believe, should they be.

Joe Nation wrote:
And if you think the first duty of government is to secure our liberty, you might ask the Bush Administration how it was after eight months on the job they could allow the severest blow to this nation's security to occur?


Bush had 8 months to prevent it. He screwed up big time. Clinton had 8 years to prevent it. He screwed up bigger time. In both cases it was surely a failure of our government to secure our liberty.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Sep, 2004 09:43 am
Just ran across a wonderful quote of Hermann Goering made after the war, which i had forgotten about, but which i consider very germaine here:

"Naturally the common people don't want war; neither in Russia, nor in England, nor in America, nor in Germany. That is understood. But after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.

The quote has been vetted by Snopes.
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Larry434
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Sep, 2004 09:46 am
Herman spoke a truth there.
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McTag
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Sep, 2004 09:46 am
Surely, GWB's actions have made America a place which is less safe than before.
In this alone, disregarding all other malfeasances, he has done enough to be reviled and discarded.
But these clowns at the convention are cheering themselves hoarse and asking him to "stand on his record". May it become clearer to the majority, what that record actually has brought.
0 Replies
 
Larry434
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Sep, 2004 09:48 am
McTag wrote:
Surely, GWB's actions have made America a place which is less safe than before.
In this alone, disregarding all other malfeasances, he has done enough to be reviled and discarded.
But these clowns at the convention are cheering themselves hoarse and asking him to "stand on his record". May it become clearer to the majority, what that record actually has brought.


On Nov 2, we will know whether Bush's record and promises for the future are deemed more credible than Kerry's by the electorate.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Sep, 2004 09:51 am
I understand that Ann Coulter is now working on a book that finally reveals how the Liberal Media Elite has waged a war of slander and malicious revisionist historiography about Herman Goering who properly hated Liberalism.
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Sep, 2004 09:54 am
Those Bastards ! ! !
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ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Sep, 2004 06:21 pm
DRAFT OF RECOMMENDATIONS TO THE IRAQI PEOPLE

1. Establish a constitutional republic whose constitution is the supreme law of Iraq, and wherein each one of the Iraqi people are sovereigns over their own bodies.

--What an individual Iraqi puts in and/or takes out of his/her own body shall not be limited by Iraqi government.

2. Limit the actions of any sovereign Iraqi only to that extent necessary and sufficient to secure the liberty of all individual Iraqis.

--Limit what individual Iraqis can do while under the influence of capability limiting substances.

3. Define an amendment process that requires a super majority to change the interpretation of the constitution from that which the constitution and its amendments had when adopted.

--Disallow the constitution to otherwise be changed for any reason.

4. Divide the people of Iraq into a set of self-governing member states according to their ethnicity, religion, and locations.

5. Invite these states to voluntarily join or refuse to join a federation of states governed in strict compliance with the powers the constitution delegates to the federation's government; call that Iraqi government the federal government.

6. Permit the government of any Iraqi state to nullify any action of the federal government applicable to itself that a super majority of that state is convinced is not authorized by the constitution.

7. The federal government shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or abridging the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the federal government for a redress of grievances.

--The free exercise of religion shall include but not be limited to the display of religious icons, on a first come first serve basis, in places available for the display of non-religious icons.

8. No person in Iraq shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person in Iraq be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall any person in Iraq be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

--In return for the federal government securing their liberty, taxes shall be levied on the Iraqi people according to rules that apply uniformly to all Iraqi persons (For example, if income were to be taxed, total income less the same personal exemption for every Iraqi person shall be taxed at the same rate).

9. The federal government shall, as long as the US military is present in Iraq, periodically hold state by state plebiscites to determine whether the US military shall be directed to leave some or all Iraqi states, or remain to do what the US military thinks is right.

Quote:
more later
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Sep, 2004 06:03 am
I don't mean to diss the whole Rep Party, by the way.
Many/ most of them are undoubtedly honest and wellmeaning people. I see them interviewed, their eyes shining with zeal.

I just have a problem understanding why they are taken in by Bush and his cronies. It's a strange manifestation which looks from here like mass delusion.

Looking forward to the next instalment of Ican's plan for Iraq.
0 Replies
 
Larry434
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Sep, 2004 06:08 am
McTag wrote:
I don't mean to diss the whole Rep Party, by the way.
Many/ most of them are undoubtedly honest and wellmeaning people. I see them interviewed, their eyes shining with zeal.

I just have a problem understanding why they are taken in by Bush and his cronies. It's a strange manifestation which looks from here like mass delusion.

Looking forward to the next instalment of Ican's plan for Iraq.


This independent conservative was given no credible alternative to Bush with the #1 liberal in the Senate as the option.
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Sep, 2004 06:16 am
Well Larry, I only wish you could be conservative without feeling you must vote for a facist.

Also, we Brits never understand why "liberal" is a pejorative term in the US.

The dictionary meaning of "liberal" is quite nice really.

In Britain, both the Conservatives and New Labour (nominally socialist- and the party of Mr Blair, GWB's buddy) voted for the Iraq invasion and only the Liberals voted against it.
Since then, more people have been persuaded by the Liberal point of view.
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Sep, 2004 06:53 am
Make a fresh pot of joe ....

You're going to be here awhile
0 Replies
 
Larry434
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Sep, 2004 07:00 am
McTag wrote:
Well Larry, I only wish you could be conservative without feeling you must vote for a facist.

Also, we Brits never understand why "liberal" is a pejorative term in the US.

The dictionary meaning of "liberal" is quite nice really.

In Britain, both the Conservatives and New Labour (nominally socialist- and the party of Mr Blair, GWB's buddy) voted for the Iraq invasion and only the Liberals voted against it.
Since then, more people have been persuaded by the Liberal point of view.


First, I do not see Bush as a facist.

Second, my opinion is that although Bush does things that I do not agree with, he is much closer to me on the political spectrum than the #1 liberal in our Senate.

So my vote goes to Bush.
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Sep, 2004 07:08 am
How is voting for Bush voting "facist"?
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Sep, 2004 07:18 am
I'll come back to you later if I may McG, on Bush fascism.
Meanwhile this from The Guardian today, which i found apt:

"And if we accept, as we should, that we face a serious array of new threats, among which Islamist terrorism plays an important part, what is the role of military force in reducing the threat? Much less than in earlier wars. If military force was 80% responsible for the west's victory in the second world war, and perhaps - through the impact on the Soviet Union of the arms race - 30% responsible for the west's victory in the cold war (and even that figure may be too high), it will only be 10% - or perhaps 15% - responsible for winning this one.

The victory will depend on courage, resolution, and a determination to defend what we value - American leaders are right to remind us of this. It will depend on skilled intelligence and police work. But it will depend, above all, on addressing the political and economic causes of terrorism, to dry the swamps in which al-Qaida mosquitoes breed, and preserving and unfolding the magnetic attractions of our own free societies. It's here that Bush has been such a disaster. He has presided over the largest build-up of the American military since the end of the cold war, and the swiftest, most comprehensive dismantling of the country's popularity in the world since Vietnam. In the weapons categories that really count, no one has done more to disarm America than George Bush.
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au1929
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Sep, 2004 07:26 am
McTag

I will drink to that Drunk
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ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Sep, 2004 01:51 pm
McTag wrote:
I just have a problem understanding why they are taken in by Bush and his cronies. It's a strange manifestation which looks from here like mass delusion.


Republicans, simply do not understand why folks like you think Bush is a fascist and/or some other evil thing. It looks to Republicans like you are suffering from "a strange manifestation which looks from here like mass delusion."

Do Republicans think Bush's judgment is flawed? Yes! Do Republicans sharply and intensely disagree with a number of decisions Bush has made? Yes! Would Republicans prefer someone better than Bush for President? Of course! Do Republicans think Bush is nonetheless a far better choice than Kerry? Absolutely!

In brief, Kerry, but not any classic Democrat, scares the hell out of Republicans plus a large number of other Americans.

Will Kerry get elected nonetheless? Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Sep, 2004 02:00 pm
Bah. Kerry is at LEAST as qualified as Bush to run the role, with more Washington experience than Bush has by far, and a country full of people pissed off at Bush.

So yeah, he'll get elected nonetheless.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Sep, 2004 02:17 pm
McGentrix wrote:
How is voting for Bush voting "facist"?


Under Bush, the Republican party has taken a huge swing to the right. Fascism denotes a nationalist and authoritarian regime of totalitarian principles. This is what we have in the USA. Latter-day brownshirts were dispatched to disrupt the counting of votes in Florida. The presidency was hijacked by trickery. Citizens can be taken away and locked up without rights, without being charged, and without any recourse to the law. The Constitution is being dismantled. The PATRIOT Act has been rushed through, to the severe detriment of individual civil liberties. The people receive propaganda, not news. The news media are in the hands of interests aligned with the government. A massive standing army is maintained, and the people instead of being reassured by this are deliberately cowed by repeated references to a mysterious unspecified threat to their persons or their way of life.

That, my friend, is fascism.
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