THE US, THE UN AND THE IRAQIS THEMSELVES, V. 7.0

Walter Hinteler wrote:

How did I miss your responses of high intellectuall standard, well-educated, thoughtful and showing such a deep knowledge of culture and science.

Thanks for being here.

BTW, Walter. You've posted this to me before elsewhere.

Don't you ever work up any new stuff?

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Setanta wrote:

Just what "facts" do you refer to, Whooda.

Obviuosly to your "horsesh!t-jacksh!t fire & brimstone lecture on the French Revolution that you delivered recently", Setanta

Setanta wrote:

This oughta be good . .

Well, since Lash already started with such .... my references and books are still in reaching area of my hands.

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WhoodaThunk wrote:

BTW, Walter. You've posted this to me before elsewhere.

Don't you ever work up any new stuff?

Might be, when you deliver something really fancy.

Nevertheless, thanks for the reminder: I'll try to work on that.

How many good answers DO YOU know in your second, third foreign language btw?

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Setanta wrote:

Just what "facts" do you refer to, Whooda.

This oughta be good . . .

Catch the final line there, Setanta. Same condescending attitude you used in the "Horsesh!t-Jacksh!t" diatribe.

Sorry, boys. As much as I would enjoy it, I'll not be drawn into this. When the going gets rough, somebody always runs for the moderator ... (hmmmmm ... and who might that be? Laughing

) You'll just have to find another weasel for your barrel, I suppose.

Nope. I shall remain the loyal opposition. You boys shall remain in charge high intellectual standards and cul-chah.

Oh, yes. And subtlety, too.

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Actually, it was McTag who used a subtlety which i still contend is wasted on most participants here. There's no condescension in taking notice of the unlikelihood of you producing any "facts" which will demonstrate that either Walter or I falsified statements about the Wars of the Fronde or the Revolution.

Personally, the only time i have reported anything to the moderators, i have done so only with an open notice in the thread concerned that i was going to do so. Most recently when i'd done that, there was no response. If you are hoping to suggest that you were victimized by me or by Walter when you were banned or your PM privileges suspended, you're way off base. I've never complained to the moderators about you. I can't speak for Walter, but i rather doubt that he did either. I most usually complain to the moderators when someone starts a promotional thread here, hoping to sell something. I have reported only one PM to the moderators, when a member other than you threatened me with physical assault.

The going has often gotten "rough" in my exchanges, but i don't automatically go running for the moderators. Your snide bitterness does neither you nor this topic any service. You entertain yourself however you wish, but don't be surprised if you are given little serious consideration when every second post contains a diatribe against the moderators and other members whom you allege, without any proof, complain to the moderators on a partisan basis.

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Actually, I didn't want to response to that.

But since you started, Set ...

I've never reported anything about WhoodaThunk.

I've never reported anything, which might be violating of the TOS, when being in a response etc.

The only reports from me to the mods come and came, when I notice spams and/or promotial posts.

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Setanta wrote:

Actually, it was McTag who used a subtlety which i still contend is wasted on most participants here. There's no condescension in taking notice of the unlikelihood of you producing any "facts" which will demonstrate that either Walter or I falsified statements about the Wars of the Fronde or the Revolution.

Personally, the only time i have reported anything to the moderators, i have done so only with an open notice in the thread concerned that i was going to do so. Most recently when i'd done that, there was no response. If you are hoping to suggest that you were victimized by me or by Walter when you were banned or your PM privileges suspended, you're way off base. I've never complained to the moderators about you. I can't speak for Walter, but i rather doubt that he did either. I most usually complain to the moderators when someone starts a promotional thread here, hoping to sell something. I have reported only one PM to the moderators, when a member other than you threatened me with physical assault.

The going has often gotten "rough" in my exchanges, but i don't automatically go running for the moderators. Your snide bitterness does neither you nor this topic any service. You entertain yourself however you wish, but don't be surprised if you are given little serious consideration when every second post contains a diatribe against the moderators and other members whom you allege, without any proof, complain to the moderators on a partisan basis.

Actually, I wasn't referring to you, Setanta, so you needn't become so defensive. I could care less how seriously I am considered among those who are peddling as fast as they can to convince others (and themselves?) how intellectually superior they are. In fact, it's rather embarrassing to be in the presence of those who continually flaunt their lingual fluency or their knowledge of the history of humanity.

BTW ... I read that exchange, and Lash was right on the money concerning the Frondes. <Incidentally, as long as we're huffing, puffing, & flexing our muscles, I'll match my history major against yours any day of the week.> Nope, the lady was right, and like she said, you're a smart guy, but you don't know everything.

As a sidebar to Mr. Hinteler ... because you've asked, I am only fluent in English and Spanish, but this is probably the only time you'll hear mention of it. Guess you have me beat there. You be smarter than I is.

Boys, boys, boys. You enjoy the majority opinion on this website. You have all the cards and the game works for you. Certainly you have room for a couple of uncouth, uneducated slobs in your midst?

If not, carry on. It's your thread. Just thought you might tolerate a dissenting thought or two.

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Good God ... I've stumbled into the confessional.

Okay ... I've never reported anyone to a moderator either. I think I still owe a library fine from 1967 and I drove five miles over the speed limit yesterday.

Will a couple of Hail Mary's cover that?

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No one here is attempting to portray themselves as intellectually superior. That reveals so much about your resentfulness. I have only responded to Ican's posts when he attempts to support his weak thesis by appeals to history. History is a subject i've studied all of my life. When i see the nonsense he attempts to pass off in often illogical fashion as precedence for the actions of this administration, i call him on it. His consistent record of presenting absolutely loony statements about history leads me to say, as i have said before, and am willing to repeat, that he knows nothing about history. I haven't said he knows nothing, i've said he knows nothing about history.

Your snide responses, your continual assertions--without foundation--that those with whom you disagree on a partisan basis consider themselves intellectually superior contribute nothing to this topic. They do demonstrate that you're far more willing to discuss personalities than the topic at hand. Your sarcasm amounts to feeble attacks directed at those with whom you disagree. Your continued whining about how you were treated by the moderators contributes nothing to this topic. You have posted nothing à propos of the topic, or even of the digressions which so frequently occur in the discussion of this topic--now in it's ninth thread, such digressions should surprise no one. The one reference you have made is to the long discussion of the Wars of the Fronde and the French Revolution. Ican attempted to contend that Napoleon was responsible for the deaths of millions of civilians. I pointed out that this is not a contention he will be able to support. I also pointed out that his comparison of Hussein to Hitler and Pol Pot was not a good analogy, as Hussein was neither the threat to the world that Hitler was, nor had he indulged in the scale of insane slaughter which Pol Pot had done. Lash decided she would jump in with an unsupportable assertion that the Wars of the Fronde were "a few years" apart from the Napoleonic era--a few years in this case being more than one hundred forty years (those wars ended in 1653, Napoleon seized power in 1799). She followed with vague assertions about Napoleon's participation in the Revolution which she was equally unable to support. None of that digression served to support Ican's thesis, and i pointed out to him once again that he is insufficiently informed about history to make statements of such a character.

If you want to characterize that as condescension, help yourself. You've made no points, and when you invited us to discuss the facts, and i said i was willing, you backed down, with more snide remarks. You apparently made your own bed as regards the moderation at this site, and are now whining about having been obliged to lie in it.

Do you plan to contribute any observations to this thread, or did you just come here to sneer at your partisan opponents and whine about the moderators?

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Walter Hinteler wrote:

WhoodaThunk wrote:

I read a horsesh!t-jacksh!t fire & brimstone lecture on the French Revolution that you delivered recently, Setanta.

Honestly, I can only hope to aspire to your craft when it comes to that spitefully nasty thing.

How did I miss your responses of high intellectuall standard, well-educated, thoughtful and showing such a deep knowledge of culture and science.

Thanks for being here.

I'm surprised you deign to crawl off your special multi-lingual pedestal long enough to communicate with us, Walter.

It's one thing to be in possession of an above average reservior of information. An impressive quality, such as a wealth of knowledge, is completely negated by an accompanying superior, or prissy, attitude. Point: You REMEMBER history, you didn't INVENT it.

No one who has spent any amount of time here is unaware of your--especially Set's--intricate knowledge of history. Not long after that, however, your parallel inability to withstand any one else having an opposing opinion emerges.

Neither of you is infallible. Neither of you owns history. And, currently, neither of you is accepting the truth about the French Revolution.

-----
Walked my dog, and I see Whooda has said something similar, but I'll post this anyway.

(Maybe, if this drama continues, it can do so on a separate thread.)

(And, Set. That remark about those here not getting McTag's lame reference... Who were you insinuating is too stupid to "get it"? )

*Confessional-wise.... I had a No Report policy for most of my time here. I find reporting personally distasteful. After I was temporarily banned a couple of times, and my "offending posts" were in response to similarly offending posts-- I was advised by Mods to report it, rather than respond to it. I couldn't understand why the first offender wasn't censured, and the responder was... I much prefer to respond, but my nine lives are rapidly dwindling.

The way I view it-- The Mods aren't going about looking for offenses. I am a severe and outspoken minority here, and likely get reported more often than others, for offenses practiced by many. So, if someone's personal attack against me is such that I am not satisfied with my ability to respond within TOS, I will report.

I think this has only not been the scenario once--when I saw a string of deep insults against a member by another.

--------
And, then Set posts again.

The Fronde was a precourser to the Revolution.

Millions did die under Napoleon's leadership.

You, Set, supported NOTHING you said. You feel your own narration is equal to a factual link. It is not.

I shall open his elsewhere in deference to other members.

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You have posted nothing to support your contention that the Wars of the Fronde were a precuror to the Revolution. You have posted nothing to support a contention that millions of civilians died as a result of the Napoleonic Wars. Pot, meet kettle . . .

My response to Ican was that he would not be able to support a contention that Napoleon was responsible for the deaths of millions of civilians. I pointed out that he made no distinction between military casualties and civilian deaths--and that military deaths easily ran into the millions. I pointed out that he made no distinction between deaths resulting from military action and pandemic disease. I pointed out that he made no distinction between those deaths for which Napoleon can properly be charged, and those which resulted from the actions of George, Prince Regent, the two Austrian Emperors, the Emperor Alexander and King Friedrich Wilhelm.

Open it where you please, you have provided no more support than you contend that i have. I have provided the titles of books germane to the subject of the French Revolution. You have cited a single reference to the Wars of the Fronde, which is not a source about the French Revolution.

You are as responsible as anyone one else in this thread for a long digression, the more so as you introduced an unrelated subject when i challenged Ican on his assertions about the Napoleonic era.

As for McTag's remark, i absolutely did not characterize anyone as stupid. I did point out that his subtlety might be lost on many members here. I consider that a reasonable assessment.

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Good on ya Lash - re the alerting the Mods stuff - how pathetic is "Don't tell the teacher!"

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Well, I don't have a "special multi-lingual pedestal" - just normal (state) school knowledge.

I accept, however, that I remember history (studied that long enough, I suppose - actually still do so :wink: ).
In case that I really mentioned once, I had invented history: I stand corrected, that then was really unwittingly and perhaps a mistake translating from German to English.
Sorry.

I'm not sure, what the truth about the French Revolution nor do I know, how you got to know it. But you certainly might know that.
(Actually, the French Revolution has never been a subject, on which I focused - indirectly, perhaps, but my publications/essays have only been of regional/academic interest [here: exams].)

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A test. How many allusions to Walter's smartopoly did he make in that last post?

Dlowan-- Thank you. It sucks to tell, but it sucks to be banned. From one day to the next, I have to juggle which sucks more.

Set--

I have already posted proof of many historian's agreement that the Fronde was a precourser to the Revolution, which is all I needed to prove. My bone of contention was that you so rudely dismissed the assertion. Since it was widely held, your dismissal was goofy and incorrect.

I sally forth in search of the murdering Napoleon.

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Dang. Housework. Later.

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Setanta, Your Post: 1337208 - makes the most sense to this observer, and I support your contentions about people who post nonsense so often, I have quit responding to them.

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Lash wrote:

Dlowan-- Thank you. It sucks to tell, but it sucks to be banned. From one day to the next, I have to juggle which sucks more.

If a tree gets banned in the woods and no one is there to be aware of its banning, does it suck? Smile

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Lash wrote:

Set--

I have already posted proof of many historian's agreement that the Fronde was a precourser to the Revolution, which is all I needed to prove. My bone of contention was that you so rudely dismissed the assertion. Since it was widely held, your dismissal was goofy and incorrect.

I see, the "goofy" adjective was necessary to make the point, eh? It is more than little amusing to be criticized for my tone, and to see things of this nature. To date, all i have seen you do is make the assertion that many historians hold that view. I have not denied that this is the case, and you have provided no proof that this is the case. Were you to do so, i would simply refer you again to Tocqueville's thorough analysis of the causes of the Revolution. I have found no other source as cogent and reliable as that.

In point of fact, there was nothing you needed to "prove" about the Wars of the Fronde. That subject has absolutely no bearing on the question of whether or not Napoleon can be considered to have been responsible for the deaths of millions. Even if you dredge up links which purport that this was the case, you will still have not demonstrated that those deaths would not have taken place, absent Napoleon. The Wars of the Revolution were not started by Napoleon, and neither England nor Austria were willing to sit by idly while France exported its revolution. There is a good deal more to historical research than simply providing statistics. It is necessary to examine events in much greater detail than you have so far demonstrated.

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Thank you, C.I., for your kind remark.

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Joe Nation wrote:

ican711nm wrote:
Joe Nation wrote:
... Joe(He cannot ignore the real dangers while attacking the imaginary)Nation

Joe, What do you recommend we do about Iran and North Korea?

So you are stumped, Ican, Bush is too, poor thing, poor us, and even Tony can't help what with his skinny little government, so what to do?

There you go again, Joe Nat... Baby, dodging the question and blaming on he who asked the question for allegingly being "stumped." .

I'll give you one more try with some of my emphasis added:
Joe, What do YOU recommend we do about Iran and North Korea?

Joe's noise to avoid the question!

Joe Nation wrote:

Bush is about to put John R. Bolton in the most sensitive negotiating position on the face of the earth. In a hundred years, historians will wonder what the hell George was thinking by putting this hip-shooting shouter of idealogy at the very balance point of humanity's survival. Truth is, or was, Bush probably didn't give it much thought. He probably got a message from God.

So how are things going?
The insurgency seems to be boiling in Iraq.

The riots in Afghanistan over the destruction (purported or otherwise, the mullahs don't care.) of a Koran in a toilet have not abated and the western end of that country and the southeast tribal lands are in a state of no controlling authority.

In Lebanon, the Syrians have departed, setting up the next theatre for insurrection (you heard it here first)

and the Iranians are drawing gasses to make an atomic weapon.

Gosh. If we could just get some good news out of Israel all this would seem insignificant.

What makes it insignificant is the news today that the North Koreans are harvesting their fuel rods now instead of waiting another year to get even greater return. What's their hurry?

Have we seen George get on a midnight flight from Texas to put a stop to all this? Must not be any right to life pandering to be done, so no. Did Bush ask Putin for his input and assistance with the wayward Iranians, he's done so well with the the Chechens, maybe he has the ideas needed.

Nope.

And now I think it may be too late to do anything.

I think we are doomed.

I did everything I could.
Joe(I voted Democratic both times)Nation

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THE US, THE UN AND THE IRAQIS THEMSELVES, V. 7.0

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