THE US, THE UN AND THE IRAQIS THEMSELVES, V. 7.0

See: the parties were Iraq and the UN. The UN perceived no violation which would have resulted in a mandate to invade Iraq.

"It's a shame you usually only have discussions with people you disagree with"

not meaning to ignore anyone oe

I just look on it as my mission in life to explain to those who disagree. The ones that agree are of course intelligent enlightened civilised and in every way perfect just like me

So in self-defense the US declared war against and went to war against the AQ and two governments (i.e., Afghanistan, Iraq)

The US's treaty with the UN does not prohibit that action by the US, nor does it prohibit any other nation from joining with the US and helping the US to do the same.

...But now when you look back over the period going back as far as the iran iraq war, I have to ask myself how could I be so stupid?

ican711nm wrote:

So in self-defense the US declared war against and went to war against the AQ and two governments (i.e., Afghanistan, Iraq)

Actually, that's not quite true. Not since WWII have the US declared war against a nation/government/country.
The US Congress authorized the US to go to war against Iraq if and when the President decided that would be necessary for the US to adequately defend itself. The President decided that was necessary. Thereby, the Congress declared war against Iraq, when the President declared war against Iraq.

Neither was it in self-defense. The word 'preemption' has been used a lot, but closer to the truth would be the word 'prevention'.
Surely, you jest! When you are attempting to prevent another from harming you or harming you more, you are defending yourself. When you have been harmed by someone who has threatened to harm you more, you pre-emptively defend yourself when you take action to prevent that threat from becoming a reality.

Little bit loose on terminology, ican?
Yes you are! But I forgive you since you have declared that English is your second language.

ican711nm wrote:

The US's treaty with the UN does not prohibit that action by the US, nor does it prohibit any other nation from joining with the US and helping the US to do the same.

... nor did it specifically prohibit Iraq from invading Kuwait. That doesn't mean that it was legal.
Yes it did prohibit Iraq from invading Kuwait. The UN Charter does prohibit a member state or states from invading another state except in self-defense. The UN did/does in fact specifically prohibit Iraq from invading Kuwait in other than self-defense. Kuwait neither threatened to attack nor did attack Iraq. Therefore, Iraq did not attack Kuwait in self-defense. Iraq, like the US and Kuwait, is a member of the UN. Therefore, Iraq's invasion of Kuwait was illegal.

The US among other states joined with Kuwait in attacking Iraq to help Kuwait defend itself.

The UN Charter does prohibit a member state or states from invading another except in self-defense. The UN did/does in fact specifically prohibit Iraq from invading Kuwait in other than self-defense. Kuwait neither threatened to attack nor did attack Iraq. Therefore, Iraq did not attack Kuwait in self-defense. Iraq like the US is a member of the UN. Therefore, Iraq's invasion of Kuwait was illegal.

ican711nm wrote:

The UN Charter does prohibit a member state or states from invading another except in self-defense. The UN did/does in fact specifically prohibit Iraq from invading Kuwait in other than self-defense. Kuwait neither threatened to attack nor did attack Iraq. Therefore, Iraq did not attack Kuwait in self-defense. Iraq, like the US and Kuwait, is a member of the UN. Therefore, Iraq's invasion of Kuwait was illegal.

So when, ican, did Iraq attack the US?

Under these circumstances, State B has a right to defend itself by attacking State A in pre-emptive self-defense in order to prevent the future murder of more of its residents.

In other words: Iraq never attacked the US.

ican711nm wrote:

Under these circumstances, State B has a right to defend itself by attacking State A in pre-emptive self-defense in order to prevent the future murder of more of its residents.

I hope you don't die one day from somebody applying the law of pre-emptive self-defense to your person, ican.

Oliver North...I dreamed of him last night. I awoke in a sweat, excited. He'd shaved his chest and was wearing old fashioned fifties-style women's floral panties. I'm going to bed early tonight to see if we have something more than just a one-night, broom closet leather and belt bottomboy ballet.

Oliver North...I dreamed of him last night. I awoke in a sweat, excited. He'd shaved his chest and was wearing old fashioned fifties-style women's floral panties. I'm going to bed early tonight to see if we have something more than just a one-night, broom closet leather and belt bottomboy ballet.