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THE US, THE UN AND THE IRAQIS THEMSELVES, V. 7.0

 
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2005 01:05 pm
Would you settle for 15%? make me an offer .... it's not like it was 5 year old children
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2005 01:06 pm
Cyclo, You missed the higher cost of fuel on your list of negatives for this administration. I would think most people are unhappy about paying about 50 percent more for their gas and home heating bills.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2005 01:10 pm
McGentrix wrote:
25% of Iraqi children are starving?!

Where in the wide, wide world of sports did you pull that stat from?


When Saddam Hussein was overthrown in 2003, about 4% of under fives were not getting enough food. That figure has now risen to 8% according to media reports, which quote an UN report.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2005 01:12 pm
Quote:
Cyclo, You missed the higher cost of fuel on your list of negatives for this administration. I would think most people are unhappy about paying about 50 percent more for their gas and home heating bills.


Great point, and the fact is that the cost is going to rise even further as the year goes along.

In fact, there just aren't that many positives the Republicans can point to in 2005 already; they've passed the bankruptcy bill but that hardly will garner them a ton of support.

There's the election in Iraq, but polling already shows opinion on the whole war is way down.

Let's see, what else is there? I don't even know.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2005 01:14 pm
Here's where I got the 25 percent. Sorry for the sloppy reading, but I assumed too much without reading the remaining article. I'm not so sure I can take all the blame with the sub-title of this article.
****************************
doubled among Iraqi kids

MORE THAN 25 PERCENT HUNGRY; HARSH WAR CONDITIONS BLAMED

By Jonathan Fowler

Associated Press


GENEVA - Malnutrition among the youngest Iraqis has almost doubled since the U.S.-led invasion toppled Saddam Hussein, a hunger specialist told the U.N. human rights body Wednesday in a summary of previously reported studies on health in Iraq.

By last fall, 7.7 percent of Iraqi children under 5 suffered acute malnutrition, compared with 4 percent after Saddam's ouster in April 2003, said Jean Ziegler, the U.N. Human Rights Commission's special expert on the right to food.

Malnutrition, which is exacerbated by a lack of clean water and adequate sanitation, is a major killer of children in poor countries. Children who survive are usually physically and mentally impaired for life, and are more vulnerable to disease.

The situation facing Iraqi youngsters is ``a result of the war led by coalition forces,'' said Ziegler, an outspoken Swiss sociology professor and former lawmaker whose previous targets have included Swiss banks, China, Brazil and Israeli treatment of Palestinians.

Overall, more than a quarter of Iraqi children do not get enough to eat, Ziegler told the 53-nation commission, which is halfway through its annual six-week session.

The U.S. delegation and other coalition countries declined to respond to his presentation, which compiled the findings of studies conducted by other specialists.

In reporting the 7.7 percent malnutrition rate for Iraqi youngsters, the Norwegian-based Fafo Institute for Applied Social Science said in November that the figure was similar to the levels in some African countries.

Iraq was generally regarded as having good nutrition rates in the 1970s and 1980s, but problems emerged when the U.N. Security Council imposed sanctions after Iraq's invasion of Kuwait in 1990.

The United Nations later began an oil-for-food program, which allowed Iraq to sell oil to buy food and medicine. That was credited with nearly doubling the Iraqi population's annual food intake and halving malnutrition among children.

Ziegler did not mention the role of Iraq's insurgency in the nutrition problem, something often cited by aid groups.

Late last year, Carol Bellamy, head of UNICEF, said the violence hampers the delivery of adequate supplies of food.
0 Replies
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2005 01:22 pm
i don't think the cost of fuel is that unreasonable. do you think it would be a good idea to have lower fuelprices, so that we can burn even more gasoline and the atmosphere can be polluted even more ? i certainly don't think so.
one of the few ways of giving alternative fuels a chance is by allowing the cost of carbon fuel to rise swowly. also keep in mind that - adjusted for inflation - the price of gasoline has risen less than just about anything else, i.e. the price of gasoline has risen LESS than the inflation rate ! you might recall that the earlier - far more serious - rise in fuelprices benefitted industry by forcing more energy efficient production methods to be adopted. hbg
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2005 01:22 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Quote:
Cyclo, You missed the higher cost of fuel on your list of negatives for this administration. I would think most people are unhappy about paying about 50 percent more for their gas and home heating bills.


Great point, and the fact is that the cost is going to rise even further as the year goes along.

In fact, there just aren't that many positives the Republicans can point to in 2005 already; they've passed the bankruptcy bill but that hardly will garner them a ton of support.

There's the election in Iraq, but polling already shows opinion on the whole war is way down.

Let's see, what else is there? I don't even know.

Cycloptichorn


Number of attacks on USA by AQ since 9/11? You always seem to forget that one. Go ahead and dismiss it as inconsequential ....
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2005 01:24 pm
Of course it's the coalition forces that are hindering the delivery of food and water and the rapid repair of infrastructure. Rolling Eyes

Why are the proper people never blamed by these organizations?

Quote:
Ziegler did not mention the role of Iraq's insurgency in the nutrition problem, something often cited by aid groups.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2005 01:27 pm
hbg, No; I think Americans have been spoiled for too long, and our government has failed to do anything to stop the unnecessary use of fuels in gas guzzlers and over-sized vehicles. I would have loved to have seen our gas prices at the current rates or higher from a decade ago; that would have required our car manufacturers to produce more fuel-efficient vehicles. I really hope our gas prices go above $5/gallon; that'll force people to think twice before they buy those 10mpg vehicles.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2005 01:27 pm
Number of AQ attacks against America under Bush? 1. But he seems to get a free pass on that one...

In fact, he presided over the greatest attack on our country since Pearl Harbor, and yet not a drop of blame is laid upon him or anyone in his administration whatsoever. Go ahead and dismiss it as inconsequential...

Warnings from previous admins that were lied about? FAA warnings mentioning OBL by name? Daily breifings which say that Bin Laden wants to strike us using planes? Nah, none of that was warning AT ALL. Go ahead and dismiss all those things as inconsequential.

Bush shouldn't be lauded for 'protecting America' since 9/11; it's like locking the barn doors after the cows have been stolen. And we all know just how hard we've worked to close the border, or increase security at chemical and nuclear plants, or to secure our shipping... Go ahead and dismiss those as inconsequential.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2005 01:31 pm
Cyclo, Isn't it interesting how people on the right can't see the obvious failings of this administration's securing our borders to protect us. We're spending billions at our airports, but all the containers (over 90 percent) coming into our country has a free pass. It boggles my mind how they are able to rationalize so much.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2005 01:34 pm
They've learned to live with the constant buzzing sound in their heads produced by Cognitive Dissonance.... a difficult feat.

Tico, I would point out a point that was made to ME by Ican about causality and co-incidence:

You think that the fact that we haven't been attacked is directly related to the hard work the Prez and the admin. have been doing; but there is absolutely zero evidence of that. Especially given the wide-open nature of our borders, our failure to secure shipping, and our failure to increase security in critical areas...

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2005 01:35 pm
Re those starving children in Iraq
1/3 of Iraqi children starving
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/35065.stm

Now according to one source
http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2004/11/304060.shtml

Unicef report
http://www.al-bushra.org/Iraq/unicef.htm

Close to the truth I think
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=5226
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2005 01:46 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
They've learned to live with the constant buzzing sound in their heads produced by Cognitive Dissonance.... a difficult feat.

Tico, I would point out a point that was made to ME by Ican about causality and co-incidence:

You think that the fact that we haven't been attacked is directly related to the hard work the Prez and the admin. have been doing; but there is absolutely zero evidence of that. Especially given the wide-open nature of our borders, our failure to secure shipping, and our failure to increase security in critical areas...

Cycloptichorn


I knew you'd dismiss it as inconsequential .......
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2005 01:59 pm
Just as I knew you'd dismiss the failings in the first place as 'inconsequential.'

We can directly show how Bush was warned about 9/11 before it happened; can you directly show which actions since then have kept another attack from happening? That show a causal relationship between his actions and no further attacks? Links and documentation, plz.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2005 02:05 pm
From Fox's second link. My comment: If this president and Congress are so concerned about "life," why aren't they concerned about the Iraqi children?
******
Twice as Many Iraqi Children now Starving
author: Karl Vick, Washington Post
Suad Ahmed, left, watches over her 1-year-old son, Abdullah, at Baghdad's main children's hospital. Abdullah weighs just 11 pounds.

BAGHDAD - Acute malnutrition among young children in Iraq has nearly doubled since the United States led an invasion of the country 20 months ago, according to surveys by the United Nations, aid agencies and the interim Iraqi government.

After the rate of acute malnutrition among children younger than 5 steadily declined to 4 percent two years ago, it shot up to 7.7 percent this year, according to a study conducted by Iraq's Health Ministry in cooperation with Norway's Institute for Applied International Studies and the U.N. Development Program. The new figure translates to roughly 400,000 Iraqi children suffering from "wasting," a condition characterized by chronic diarrhea and dangerous deficiencies of protein.

"These figures clearly indicate the downward trend," said Alexander Malyavin, a child health specialist with the UNICEF mission to Iraq.

Services slow to improve
The surveys suggest the silent human cost being paid across a country convulsed by instability and mismanagement. While attacks by insurgents have grown more violent and more frequent, deteriorating basic services take lives that many Iraqis said they had expected to improve under American stewardship.

Iraq's child malnutrition rate now roughly equals that of Burundi, a central African nation torn by more than a decade of war. It is far higher than rates in Uganda and Haiti.

"The people are astonished," said Khalil M. Mehdi, who directs the Nutrition Research Institute at the Health Ministry. The institute has been involved with nutrition surveys for more than a decade; the latest one was conducted in April and May but has not been publicly released.

Mehdi and other analysts attributed the increase in malnutrition to dirty water and to unreliable supplies of the electricity needed to make it safe by boiling. In poorer areas, where people rely on kerosene to fuel their stoves, high prices and an economy crippled by unemployment aggravate poor health.

"Things have been worse for me since the war," said Kasim Said, a day laborer who was at Baghdad's main children's hospital to visit his ailing year-old son, Abdullah. The child, lying on a pillow with a Winnie the Pooh washcloth to keep the flies off his head, weighs just 11 pounds.

"During the previous regime, I used to work on the government projects. Now there are no projects," his father said.

Feast to famine
When he finds work, he added, he can bring home $10 to $14 a day. If his wife is fortunate enough to find a can of Isomil, the nutritional supplement that doctors recommend, she pays $7 for it.

"But the lady in the next bed said she just paid $10," said Suad Ahmed, who sat cross-legged on a bed in the same ward, trying to console her skeletal 4-month-old granddaughter, Hiba, who suffers from chronic diarrhea.

Iraqi health officials like to surprise visitors by pointing out that the nutrition issue facing young Iraqis a generation ago was obesity. Malnutrition, they say, appeared in the early 1990s with U.N. trade sanctions championed by Washington to punish the government led by President Saddam Hussein for invading Kuwait in 1990.

International aid efforts and the U.N. oil-for-food program helped reduce the ruinous impact of sanctions, and the rate of acute malnutrition among the youngest Iraqis gradually dropped from a peak of 11 percent in 1996 to 4 percent in 2002. But the invasion in March 2003 and the widespread looting in its aftermath severely damaged the basic structures of governance in Iraq, and persistent violence across the country slowed the pace of reconstruction almost to a halt.

Doctors in short supply
In its most recent assessment of five sectors of Iraq's reconstruction, the Center for Strategic and International Studies, a Washington research group, said health care was worsening at the quickest pace.

"Believe me, we thought a magic thing would happen" with the fall of Hussein and the start of the U.S.-led occupation, said an administrator at Baghdad's Central Teaching Hospital for Pediatrics. "So we're surprised that nothing has been done. And people talk now about how the days of Saddam were very nice," the official said.

The administrator, who would not give his full name for publication, cited security concerns faced by Iraqi doctors, who are widely perceived as rich and well-connected and thus easy targets for thieves, extortionists and the merely envious or vengeful. So many have been assassinated, he said, that the Health Ministry recently mailed out offers to expedite weapon permits for doctors.

Violence has also driven away international aid agencies that brought expertise to Iraq following the U.S. invasion.

Since a truck bombing at the U.N. headquarters in Baghdad killed more than 20 people last year, U.N. programs for Iraq have operated from neighboring Jordan. Doctors Without Borders, a group known for its high tolerance for risk and one of several that helped revive Iraq's Health Ministry in the weeks after the invasion, evacuated this fall.

CARE International closed down in October after the director of its large Iraq operation, Margaret Hassan, was kidnapped. She is now presumed to be dead. The huge Atlanta-based charity had remained active in Iraq through three wars, providing hospitals with supplies and sponsoring scores of projects to offer Iraqis clean drinking water.

Poverty breeds malnutrition
By one count, 60 percent of rural residents and 20 percent of urban dwellers have access only to contaminated water. The country's sewer systems are in disarray.

"Even myself, I suffer from the quality of water," said Zina Yahya, 22, a nurse in a Baghdad maternity hospital. "If you put it in a glass, you can see it's turbid. I've heard of typhoid cases."

The nutrition surveys indicated that conditions are worst in Iraq's largely poor, overwhelmingly Shiite Muslim south, an area alternately subject to neglect and persecution during Hussein's rule. But doctors say malnutrition occurs wherever water is dirty, parents are poor and mothers have not been taught how to avoid disease.

"I don't eat well," said Yusra Jabbar, 20, clutching her swollen abdomen in a fly-specked ward of Baghdad's maternity hospital. Her mother said the water in their part of Sadr City, a Shiite slum on the capital's east side, is often contaminated. Her brother contracted jaundice.

"They tell me I have anemia," Jabbar said. Doctors said almost all the pregnant women in the hospital do.

"This is not surprising because since the war, there is lots of unemployment," Yahya said. "And without work, they don't have the money to obtain proper food.''

Iraqis say such conditions carry political implications. Baghdad residents often point out to reporters that after the 1991 Persian Gulf War left much of the capital a shambles, Hussein's government restored electricity and kerosene supplies in two months.

"Yes, there is a price for every war," said the official at the teaching hospital. "Yes, there are victims. But after that?

"Oh God, help us build Iraq again. For our children, not for us. For our kids," the official said.

homepage: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6541101/
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2005 02:23 pm
Cyc., I can guarantee you with 100% accuracy that there may be a catastrophic earthquake in California sometime in the future.

What will you do to stop it or defend against it?
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2005 02:25 pm
Lol, you can Guarantee that there may be an earthquake?

Any other rock-solid guarantees you can make us?

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2005 02:38 pm
That is the equivalent of what the Bush administration received as "warning" about 9-11.
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2005 02:48 pm
To C.I., did you miss the link re how many starving and malnourished children there were in Iraq prior to the invasion? Have you missed the estimated tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of starved, starving, neglected-to-death Iraqis of all ages there were in the decade prior to the invasion? Did you find anything in the links supporting the 'estimate' that children are still starving in Iraq? You couldn't have missed the part that only a small fraction of Iraqi children are currently endangered in that way by anybody's estimates, and it is absurd to make the claim that the Bush administration does not care about the Iraqi children, almost as absurd as your claim that the Bush administration doesn't care about the veterans despite all the evidence that has been posted on various threads to the contrary. If there has been any increase at all in malnutrition among Iraqi children, it is only because we're getting into the corners and finding them these days.
0 Replies
 
 

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