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THE US, THE UN AND THE IRAQIS THEMSELVES, V. 7.0

 
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Mar, 2005 12:48 pm
Quote:
6. Jaafari: Iraq headed toward Religious Law On th...
Jaafari: Iraq headed toward Religious Law

On the second anniversary of the launching of the Iraq War, crowds demonstrated throughout the world. Among the larger rallies were those in London (45,000) and Istanbul (15,000). The crowds were smaller than those that demonstrated in late winter 2003 as the war was gearing up.

Such relatively large anti-American demonstrations in Turkey, which has long had secular governments and been pro-Western, are particularly worrisome.

Prospective Iraqi prime minister Ibrahim Jaafari has given an interview to Der Spiegel, to appear Tuesday, in which he says his government will press for the implementation of religious law in personal status matters:


' "It's understandable in a country where the majority of people are Muslim . . . Iraq should become a Muslim country but without falling under the influence of Iran or Saudi Arabia . . . Everyone will have the same rights, even members of the many minor religious communities," he said, explaining there would be multiple forms of jurisprudence. '


Jaafari is using the techniques of misdirection here. The system he is proposing would put Shiites under their ayatollahs with regard to laws governing marriage, divorce, inheritance, alimony, custody of children, etc. Sunnis would be under their clergy, and Catholics would be under canon law. Since 97 percent of Iraqis are Muslims, 97 percent will be under shariah or Islamic law.

Jaafari hastens to say women will not be made to veil. But in fact, in Basra and some other parts of Iraq, Sadrist and Supreme Council for Islamic Revolution in Iraq young men are forcing girls to veil in public already. Nor is veiling the main issue in women's status. Jaafari's system will give girls half the amount of inheritance that their brothers receive, and may well make women's testimony worth half that of a man in court. If strict gender segregation is enforced, and coeducation ended, Iraqi women may find it difficult to get post-BA training, since they won't be allowed in the professional schools (now coded as "male"), and mostly won't have professional schools for women, or in any case many fewer than for men.

How far the system goes toward that of Iran or Saudi Arabia remains to be seen. Just having personal status law judged according to religion is the same system that exists in Israel and Lebanon, so it isn't exactly the end of the world or unprecedented (Iraqi personal status law was religious before the 1958 revolution).
Sun, Mar 20, 2005 0:30
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Mar, 2005 12:56 pm
An interesting find today, that is completely saddening:

Quote:
Report: 108 Died In U.S. Custody

WASHINGTON, March 16, 2005

(AP) At least 108 people have died in American custody in Iraq and Afghanistan, most of them violently, according to government data provided to The Associated Press. Roughly a quarter of those deaths have been investigated as possible abuse by U.S. personnel.

The figure, far higher than any previously disclosed, includes cases investigated by the Army, Navy, CIA and Justice Department. Some 65,000 prisoners have been taken during the U.S.-led wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, although most have been freed.

The Pentagon has never provided comprehensive information on how many prisoners taken during the U.S. wars in Iraq and Afghanistan have died, and the 108 figure is based on information supplied by Army, Navy and other government officials. It includes deaths attributed to natural causes.


108. Wonder how high it will go?

For a little comparison, the number of US soldiers killed in captivity in the ENTIRE Vietnam era:

* POWs: 766 (114 died in captivity).

http://www.eiis.net/cmart/vietwarstats.html

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Mar, 2005 01:16 pm
ican, I appreciate your response, however, I have no desire to get into the whole nearly non existence link between AQ and Iraq with you so I am going to skip it and stand by my previous statements.
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Mar, 2005 01:19 pm
Cycloptichorn, shameful about the abuses at our hands. Also bothersome the way we have to qualify everything with "I don't condone terorist..." around here.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Mar, 2005 01:23 pm
Yeah, well, if you don't put that on your post these days you have to put up with pages of accusations of 'being on the side of the terrorists' and 'being un-American' and 'being against democracy,' which I am frankly tired of.

BTW, I saw the name Revel on Dkos; is that you?

Cheers

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Mar, 2005 02:50 pm
Cyclo, You forgot "communist" in your list of accusations by the neocons.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Mar, 2005 02:51 pm
George

Both climate change and peak oil are predictions. How can I be wrong about something that's in the future?

I'm not saying I take 100% of anything as gospel. These are interesting and important ideas and I think it is indicative of you that you dismiss them out of hand.

WEFT as in Weft

http://www.weft.co.nz/ ?
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Mar, 2005 04:15 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
ican, You were talking about Japan's attack on the US, and Germany's attack on Poland. My answer to you concerned Japan's attack on the US. Maybe you missed that.

No! I didn't miss that! I think you missed what prompted the response I made to Dyslexia that you took issue with. You may recall that response. It's one in which I listed several examples of wars on democracies. I ended the response with the question: What's the Paradox?

In an earlier post, after labeling our invasion and removal of Saddam's regime as a completed war on Saddam's regime, I discussed three alternative labels for what was now happening in Iraq. One of those was a war on Iraqi democracy.

Dyslexia claimed that label seemed paradoxical.

I then responded with my list and my question that I mentioned above.
In no case was I discussing anything other than labels and my reasons for the labels. I was not discussing reasons for any of the wars I mentioned.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Mar, 2005 04:22 pm
Your opinion that they were a war on democracy is wrong. When your fundamental premise is wrong, most things that follow will also be wrong.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Mar, 2005 04:26 pm
A war on Iraq democracy is 180 degrees away from our war with Japan and Germany; yet you claimed their war was a war against the democracies of Poland and the US.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Mar, 2005 04:31 pm
I'd like to take this opportunity to state that I am an avowed communist, radical anarchist, antichrist and lover of all things terrorist. I even like brussels sprouts.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Mar, 2005 04:32 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
I would like to proceed this post with the following statement: I don't support war in any way, no matter whose side we are talking about. I believe a dead Iraqi is the same as a dead American. Therefore, I neither support nor condone the actions of the insurgents in Iraq.

What is it you recommend that country A do when it is attacked by country B?

What is it you recommend country A do when it is attacked by terrorists based in country B?

What is it you recommend country A do when it is attacked by terrorists who are based in country B, and who have declared war on the citizens of country A?

Quote:
Official Transcript of Communiqué No.7 Letter to the American People People of America

...

We share these thoughts with great honesty, to those of you who spent days & nights trying to prevent this war. Timeless efforts to prevent this real holocaust.

To all of you we say, you are the true patriots, & thank you for your time.

The Mujahideen Army Baghdad- Republic of Iraq On the 7th of Safar 1426
The 17th of March 2005


This communique reads like a letter written by insane persons in the hope of persuading others to be their allies in their evil enterprises.

Cycloptichorn wrote:
Lot of truth in that. Cycloptichorn


What is the truth you believe there is to that? Please boldface it for me.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Mar, 2005 04:33 pm
But do you like brocoli?
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Mar, 2005 05:03 pm
Broccoli I believe is consider healthy, I hate healthy. I demand Borscht.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Mar, 2005 05:17 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
An interesting find today, that is completely saddening:

Quote:
Report: 108 Died In U.S. Custody

WASHINGTON, March 16, 2005
...

108. Wonder how high it will go?

Cycloptichorn


More than 108,000 Iraqi civilians have been killed by the former Saddam regime and its current allies.

108,000. "Wonder how high it will go?"

Of these, more than 1,080 prisoners of the former Saddam Regime's current allies have been killed by the former Saddam Regime's current allies.

1,080. "Wonder how high it will go?"

Don't ask. I cannot provide reliable evidence that my numbers are any more valid than the numbers you posted here.

What I can do is ask why you have never published here the number of horrors committed by the former Saddam Regime's current allies?
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Mar, 2005 05:21 pm
Because everyone has their own dreidel to spin, you spin it your way and others spin it their way.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Mar, 2005 05:22 pm
and before we know it, it becomes a two-way top.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Mar, 2005 05:23 pm
Gelisgesti wrote:
Mctag...... one thing you should know, he knows what you know before you know what you know especially when he dos'nt know anything.
Or have you noticed that?
Laughing
You don't know that!
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Mar, 2005 05:33 pm
revel wrote:
ican, I appreciate your response, however, I have no desire to get into the whole nearly non existence link between AQ and Iraq with you so I am going to skip it and stand by my previous statements.

Revel, I didn't ask you to do that. I don't want you to do that. What I asked you was why you were so hung up on the WMD whooey?

I'll ask it another way.

I infer you believe there were no WMD in Iraq before the US invasion of Iraq.

President Bush has admitted that.

So why are you still hung up on it?

I infer that you believe there were very few if any terrorists based in Iraq before the US invasion of Iraq.

President Bush has not admitted that.

So why aren't you hung up on that instead?
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Mar, 2005 05:39 pm
Steve (as 41oo) wrote:
George

Both climate change and peak oil are predictions. How can I be wrong about something that's in the future?


I predict the sun will within this century repeat its approximately 20,000 year cycle of reduced followed by increased radiation intensity, thereby cooling the earth and then warming it again.

"How can I be wrong about something that's in the future" (even though it has occurred in the past)?
0 Replies
 
 

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