THE US, THE UN AND THE IRAQIS THEMSELVES, V. 7.0

Thursday 10 February 2005


Shia demands 'risk turning Iraq into an Islamic regime'
By Jim Muir in Dokan, northern Iraq
(Filed: 10/02/2005)

Shia demands for sharia law to prevail in Iraq would turn the country into an Islamic regime, the man expected to become president said yesterday.

The battle over the new constitution would be fierce, predicted Jalal Talabani, whose bid is backed by the Kurdish leadership and looks destined to succeed.

"I think there will be big differences over the relationship between religion and the state," he said. "The Kurds are openly for a secular constitution, the Christians too, so I am expecting sharp discussion on this issue.

"Some Shi'ites are asking that Islam be the only source of laws, which means turning Iraq into an Islamic regime, and that is unacceptable.

"We accept that the religion of Iraq is Islam, and we must respect Islam and the Islamic identity of Iraqi people. But we think Islam should only be one source of the Iraqi laws."

The Kurds expect to win at least 70 seats in the Baghdad parliament, behind the unified Shia coalition but well ahead of current prime minister Iyad Allawi's secular list. The Shia are insisting on holding the premiership, which strengthens the Kurdish claim to the presidency.

Mr Talabani, who would be the country's first Kurdish president, predicted "struggle, differences and difficulties" over jobs in the new administration. Announcement of the election results was postponed again yesterday.

yeppers, I sure am, reading today about the minimum 7 hour wait to get fuel in their truck/car, the usual 2 hours per day of elect in their homes/businesses and trucked in water rationed by the litre. But hey, I only read the liberal press so how would I know?

I really didn't think that they would try to pull something like this when they realized that the Shiite's won by such a whopping majority. I thought they would just spin it into something that they wanted all along and try to work under the table for concessions.

dyslexia wrote:

yeppers, I sure am, reading today about the minimum 7 hour wait to get fuel in their truck/car, the usual 2 hours per day of elect in their homes/businesses and trucked in water rationed by the litre. But hey, I only read the liberal press so how would I know?

Hello

Had to bug out and get some sleep.

Again, you said you hear no mention of anything being done or fixed, well much has been done. My position is that Arianna and some A2k family members have unrealistic expectations in regard to how much 'Bob Vila' work can be accomplish in the midst of war. It's her agenda to focus on the negative, that's fine, she didn't give a damn about what the Iraqi's had or didn't have before we went in. I didn't either much before we finally went to change things, at least I pubically admit it. Now that we're there and the long stalemate is over I want us to succeed and also the Iraqi people and I know you do too.

Here are some things that are/will be underway:
Iraq developement


As poor as the condition of the infrastructure there was before the war, imagine a few more years of neglect during the stalemate. Because we are there the possibility for improvement is there. I think things are moving along as good as can be expected during war, that's realistic to me but if I lived there and there wasn't clean drinking water near me...I'd think much differently I'm sure, I understand that. But one only has to study the current Sri Lanka situation and the state of the reconstruction. Still people there without adeqate water etc. even without as much ammo flying around, although some, so a few things have been halted...again that is reasonable to me.

I'm not here to get in a copy/paste, good things/bad things battle about the state of reconstruction of Iraq, but I will say is if Arianna and those with the same mindset think she/they can do better, and actually she can afford to send teams of construction crews over there....then do it.

Another ongoing project.
Iraq Water Project

The sanctions have been lifted, not as we hoped, through education and pressure on the US government, but as a byproduct of US President Geoprge W. Bush's unprovoked attack on that nation. The sanctions have been lifted because the War on Iraq completed the destruction of the infrastructure, a foreseeable consequence that was completely ignored in the prewar planning. The US made sure the oil was flowing, but did nothing to prepare for the chaos that comes after the fall of a government. Now, it is not only the vast rural areas that are without safe drinking water, but the big cities as well. The US government has been unable to even get the lights on, feed the hungry or provide basic health care.

Before this latest war, and in calamitous consequence of earlier US policy, Iraq was a social and environmental disaster in the making. Now it is a social and environmental disaster, made and delivered.

Brand X wrote:

dyslexia wrote:

yeppers, I sure am, reading today about the minimum 7 hour wait to get fuel in their truck/car, the usual 2 hours per day of elect in their homes/businesses and trucked in water rationed by the litre. But hey, I only read the liberal press so how would I know?

Hello

Had to bug out and get some sleep.

Again, you said you hear no mention of anything being done or fixed, well much has been done. My position is that Arianna and some A2k family members have unrealistic expectations in regard to how much 'Bob Vila' work can be accomplish in the midst of war. It's her agenda to focus on the negative, that's fine, she didn't give a damn about what the Iraqi's had or didn't have before we went in. I didn't either much before we finally went to change things, at least I pubically admit it. Now that we're there and the long stalemate is over I want us to succeed and also the Iraqi people and I know you do too.

Here are some things that are/will be underway:
Iraq developement


As poor as the condition of the infrastructure there was before the war, imagine a few more years of neglect during the stalemate. Because we are there the possibility for improvement is there. I think things are moving along as good as can be expected during war, that's realistic to me but if I lived there and there wasn't clean drinking water near me...I'd think much differently I'm sure, I understand that. But one only has to study the current Sri Lanka situation and the state of the reconstruction. Still people there without adeqate water etc. even without as much ammo flying around, although some, so a few things have been halted...again that is reasonable to me.

I'm not here to get in a copy/paste, good things/bad things battle about the state of reconstruction of Iraq, but I will say is if Arianna and those with the same mindset think she/they can do better, and actually she can afford to send teams of construction crews over there....then do it.

Another ongoing project.
Iraq Water Project

I'm pleased to see you come around X .... it takes a big man to admit he was wrong.... from your water link

Quote:

The sanctions have been lifted, not as we hoped, through education and pressure on the US government, but as a byproduct of US President Geoprge W. Bush's unprovoked attack on that nation. The sanctions have been lifted because the War on Iraq completed the destruction of the infrastructure, a foreseeable consequence that was completely ignored in the prewar planning. The US made sure the oil was flowing, but did nothing to prepare for the chaos that comes after the fall of a government. Now, it is not only the vast rural areas that are without safe drinking water, but the big cities as well. The US government has been unable to even get the lights on, feed the hungry or provide basic health care.

Before this latest war, and in calamitous consequence of earlier US policy, Iraq was a social and environmental disaster in the making. Now it is a social and environmental disaster, made and delivered.

OOPSIE

Don't you think I would rather post something positive?
You can't find anything....We took a dictator state and turned it into a failed state.
Men die, wars end, then we can find something beautiful .....bu not now.
I can find no beauty in dying children

Men die, wars end, then we can find something beautiful .....bu not now.
I can find no beauty in dying children

It must suck to be you.

Gelisgesti wrote:

Don't you think I would rather post something positive?
You can't find anything....We took a dictator state and turned it into a failed state.
Men die, wars end, then we can find something beautiful .....bu not now.
I can find no beauty in dying children

It must suck to be you.

Geli wrote

Quote:

Men die, wars end, then we can find something beautiful .....bu not now.
I can find no beauty in dying children

Then you of all people should be rejoicing that there is now a chance that in Iraq countless hundreds or thousands or tens of thousands of children will no longer be needlessly dying as they were before the invasion.

The U.S. government intentionally used sanctions against Iraq to degrade the country's water supply after the Gulf War ended.
read more

The sanctions repeatedly prevent the country from importing necessary spare parts and chemicals for the water treatment plants by declaring them 'dual usage'. The hospitals lack equipment and medicines to treat their patients according to their medical needs as we heard and saw first hand when we visited hospitals in Baghdad and Basrah.

The Water Plants

Veterans for Peace managed to raise close to $200,000 to repair six water treatment facilities which serve a population of more than 85,000 people. Plus, in a public display exhibiting support for the civilian population of Iraq, three teams of US service veterans traveled to Iraq on their own expenses and worked alongside the Iraqi laborers who are fixing the water facilities.
The Labbani Plant

A medium to large-sized facility serving 55,000 people. The water from this plant was only partially treated. more
Mansouria Al-Shatt in Hebheb village, Town of Baaqooba, Province of Diyalah

The Mansouria plant is in a rural setting, outside the village of Hebheb. It is on the Tigris River and serves about 7,000 people. more
Hai Al-Risalah, Town of Falooja, Province of Al-Anbar

The Hai Al-Risalah plant sits on the Euphrates River within the town of Falooja. It's small, about the size of Mansouria. The plant had a leak in the sedimentation tank and was completely inoperable. The plant serves 15,000 people, four schools and many general service buildings. more
Hamden Jissir

A smaller facility serving a population of 3,000 people. Hamdan Jissir was completely inoperable, including its elevated storage tank. People in the area had to either buy drinking water or boil water out of a nearby canal. more
Hamden Balad

The plant is next to a schoolyard. Hamdan Balad only partially treats its water and then pumps it directly to the people. 3,000 people in this area now have access to clean drinking water. more
Abu Floos

Abu Floos is a 600 house town with 5,000 people. The water treatment plant had only one, small pump left operating, which pumped untreated river water directly to the people. more

Brand X, that water project link turned out to be very informative.

Quote:

The U.S. government intentionally used sanctions against Iraq to degrade the country's water supply after the Gulf War ended.
read more

The sanctions repeatedly prevent the country from importing necessary spare parts and chemicals for the water treatment plants by declaring them 'dual usage'. The hospitals lack equipment and medicines to treat their patients according to their medical needs as we heard and saw first hand when we visited hospitals in Baghdad and Basrah.

That would be past tense, at this point.

Here are the water treatment plants that were repaired by Veterans for Peace.

Quote:

The Water Plants

Veterans for Peace managed to raise close to $200,000 to repair six water treatment facilities which serve a population of more than 85,000 people. Plus, in a public display exhibiting support for the civilian population of Iraq, three teams of US service veterans traveled to Iraq on their own expenses and worked alongside the Iraqi laborers who are fixing the water facilities.
The Labbani Plant

A medium to large-sized facility serving 55,000 people. The water from this plant was only partially treated. more
Mansouria Al-Shatt in Hebheb village, Town of Baaqooba, Province of Diyalah

The Mansouria plant is in a rural setting, outside the village of Hebheb. It is on the Tigris River and serves about 7,000 people. more
Hai Al-Risalah, Town of Falooja, Province of Al-Anbar

The Hai Al-Risalah plant sits on the Euphrates River within the town of Falooja. It's small, about the size of Mansouria. The plant had a leak in the sedimentation tank and was completely inoperable. The plant serves 15,000 people, four schools and many general service buildings. more
Hamden Jissir

A smaller facility serving a population of 3,000 people. Hamdan Jissir was completely inoperable, including its elevated storage tank. People in the area had to either buy drinking water or boil water out of a nearby canal. more
Hamden Balad

The plant is next to a schoolyard. Hamdan Balad only partially treats its water and then pumps it directly to the people. 3,000 people in this area now have access to clean drinking water. more
Abu Floos

Abu Floos is a 600 house town with 5,000 people. The water treatment plant had only one, small pump left operating, which pumped untreated river water directly to the people. more

That takes care of 85,000 people. I'd wager a nickle that the one that was repaired in Falujah is no longer repaired.